Calming drugs

Have you checked into food allergies for Shamrock? Poor guy, I wish they
could talk and tell us what's wrong.


--
-Kelly
kelly at farringtons dot net
Check out www.snittens.com

"Cheryl" wrote in message
...
"KellyH" dumped this in
news:NjQmc.37224$Ia6.6488697@attbi_s03 on 07 May 2004:

OK, you all might think I'm off my rocker, but sometimes I wonder if
cats can be bipolar. My Bartleby acts a lot like Shamrock.

I wonder that, too. I've read your posts about Bartleby and he reminds me
of Shamrock, also. The NewCat thread sounded so similar.

Luckily,
his obnoxious times aren't quite as bad, but the change in personality
is similar. Sometimes he is we call "being pathetic", where he's
super lovey, plows his head into me, kneads and mock-nurses my arm, he
walks around this house making a little wimpering sound, and snuggling
with the other cats. Then other times, he's a terror, annoying the
other cats, chasing NewCat, knocking glasses of water over (his
favorite way to get my attention),

Shamrock does this, too. But, he's not particular about what he knocks
over. If it falls and makes a noise, it suites him fine. I don't get
emotional about it because that seems to be what he wants.

and if no one pays attention to
him, he will go sulk in the basement. He will also be a total pain in
the morning, where he keeps jumping up on the headboard and then onto
me. I also tried Rescue Remedy and it had no effect. He gets very
sad when it's overcast and/or raining. I know that sounds strange,
but it's true. I've also thought about taking him to a behaviorist,
the vet mentioned it when I told her that Bartleby eats his and the
other cats' hair (the clumps from when I brush them).

Very weird. Shamrock rubs his nose in fur clumps but doesn't eat it. His
queue to Shadow that he's about to attack is to stick his nose in Shadows
fur, somewhere around the back or neck area. Shadow has learned that
queue and gets very upset when he does it, then runs and hides.

I wonder if Shamrock could be experiencing "'roid rage" from the depo
shots? Is that a steroid?

I have definitely wondered that myself. Unfortunately the depo shots are
the only thing that clears up his lesions. He's much worse during a
flare-up. I've just recently tried Frontline Plus; I have always used
Advantage on him because it is so similar to a flea allergy but none have
ever been seen. Even the vets have sort of ruled out fleas, but I do know
that it can only take a single flea bite to start the itching and then,
lesions. Right this minute he is snuggling up to me, purring yet when I
touch him, his mouth opens and he's ready to bite me. Something is surely
bothering this cat.


--
Cheryl
/not touching Shamrock for a while. sigh

"KellyH" dumped this in
news:7xXmc.1615$xw3.133860@attbi_s04 on 07 May 2004:

Have you checked into food allergies for Shamrock? Poor guy, I wish
they could talk and tell us what's wrong.


I've talked about that with his vet. She doesn't believe it is a food
allergy because depo shots keep his skin clear for 2-3 months. She said
if it was a food allergy, depo wouldn't work for that long. Especially
since he eats the same things all the time. We tried to go the
ellimination route but it was Hills ZD and being a dry food, he wouldn't
eat it. Plus, it irks the hell out of Shadow's IBD and if there is dry
food around, it is hard to keep Shadow out of it. He wouldn't touch the
canned IVD hypo-allergenic foods. I have thought it was a fish allergy
but again, the vet doesn't believe it to be a food allergy. She
diagnosed him with EGC by ellimination of other possibilies and EGC can
sometimes be idiopathic. I can tell she still thinks it is fleas by the
way she combs him every time we go in for a shot. Some people here have
suggested it could be a residue on the carpet, and that could be the
case. I still haven't done a steam cleaning with just steam (no
detergent) but now that spring is here, I think it is time.

--
Cheryl

"KellyH" dumped this in
news:7xXmc.1615$xw3.133860@attbi_s04 on 07 May 2004:

Have you checked into food allergies for Shamrock? Poor guy, I wish
they could talk and tell us what's wrong.


I've talked about that with his vet. She doesn't believe it is a food
allergy because depo shots keep his skin clear for 2-3 months. She said
if it was a food allergy, depo wouldn't work for that long. Especially
since he eats the same things all the time. We tried to go the
ellimination route but it was Hills ZD and being a dry food, he wouldn't
eat it. Plus, it irks the hell out of Shadow's IBD and if there is dry
food around, it is hard to keep Shadow out of it. He wouldn't touch the
canned IVD hypo-allergenic foods. I have thought it was a fish allergy
but again, the vet doesn't believe it to be a food allergy. She
diagnosed him with EGC by ellimination of other possibilies and EGC can
sometimes be idiopathic. I can tell she still thinks it is fleas by the
way she combs him every time we go in for a shot. Some people here have
suggested it could be a residue on the carpet, and that could be the
case. I still haven't done a steam cleaning with just steam (no
detergent) but now that spring is here, I think it is time.

--
Cheryl

"KellyH" wrote in message
news:jsXmc.1593$536.371909@attbi_s03...
"Alison" wrote in message
...

Bear in mind that in keeping cats as pets , they're not living the
life they are programmed for. By keeping them as pets they have
everything provided for them and fussing and petting them and they
never really "grow up " . The kneading and purring is reverting to
kittenhood and it's pleasant for both cat and owner but they still
have that wild side to them that wants to hunt and "walk alone."
Crying for attention, kneading , having a wild funny turn and
waking owners in the night , I should think all pet cats do this
at
some times, mine does, it's when it's excessive it becomes a
problem
to the owner. It's more likely to become excessive when you have
more
than one cat and also keep them indoors, you're putting them in a
stressful situation That's not to say that ALL indoor mulitple
cats
have problems and that indoor/outdoor mulitple cats never do. (
I'm
just making a statement , not arguing whether cats should stay in
or
go out )


I strongly disagree that keeping multiple cats indoors is stressful
for
them. It can be for cats that have no stimulation, and usually only
cats
exhibit signs of boredom. We have a good sized house, the cats do
not
appear to be crowded and they all have their own places they like to
hang
out. There are lots of windows and a large cat tower for them to
climb.
Maybe I should clarify: the episodes of bad behavior I describe with
Bartleby are not typical. These do not happen every day. We were
going
through a stretch of him chasing NewCat a week or two ago, but that
appears
to have resolved. I know having 6 cats seems like a lot, but
everyone who
comes over remarks how friendly and well-adjusted they all are. My
petsitter couldn't believe I have such a calm cat family.

Perhaps your cat is bipoplar or maybe he is bored or frustrated.
Maybe he is chewing because he is lacking something in his diet,
has
an illness or has a behaviour problem. Cats are changable by
nature,
what we consider odd behaviour is natural to them.
I think a behaviourist would be a good idea if he or she could
come
to your house to assess the situation.
Alison


I have heard of pica in cats, perhaps Bartleby has a touch of that,
and
that's why he eats hair sometimes.


--
-Kelly
kelly at farringtons dot net
Check out www.snittens.com

"KellyH" wrote in message
news:jsXmc.1593$536.371909@attbi_s03...
"Alison" wrote in message
...

Bear in mind that in keeping cats as pets , they're not living the
life they are programmed for. By keeping them as pets they have
everything provided for them and fussing and petting them and they
never really "grow up " . The kneading and purring is reverting to
kittenhood and it's pleasant for both cat and owner but they still
have that wild side to them that wants to hunt and "walk alone."
Crying for attention, kneading , having a wild funny turn and
waking owners in the night , I should think all pet cats do this
at
some times, mine does, it's when it's excessive it becomes a
problem
to the owner. It's more likely to become excessive when you have
more
than one cat and also keep them indoors, you're putting them in a
stressful situation That's not to say that ALL indoor mulitple
cats
have problems and that indoor/outdoor mulitple cats never do. (
I'm
just making a statement , not arguing whether cats should stay in
or
go out )


I strongly disagree that keeping multiple cats indoors is stressful
for
them. It can be for cats that have no stimulation, and usually only
cats
exhibit signs of boredom. We have a good sized house, the cats do
not
appear to be crowded and they all have their own places they like to
hang
out. There are lots of windows and a large cat tower for them to
climb.
Maybe I should clarify: the episodes of bad behavior I describe with
Bartleby are not typical. These do not happen every day. We were
going
through a stretch of him chasing NewCat a week or two ago, but that
appears
to have resolved. I know having 6 cats seems like a lot, but
everyone who
comes over remarks how friendly and well-adjusted they all are. My
petsitter couldn't believe I have such a calm cat family.

Perhaps your cat is bipoplar or maybe he is bored or frustrated.
Maybe he is chewing because he is lacking something in his diet,
has
an illness or has a behaviour problem. Cats are changable by
nature,
what we consider odd behaviour is natural to them.
I think a behaviourist would be a good idea if he or she could
come
to your house to assess the situation.
Alison


I have heard of pica in cats, perhaps Bartleby has a touch of that,
and
that's why he eats hair sometimes.


--
-Kelly
kelly at farringtons dot net
Check out www.snittens.com

Hi Kelly ,
Every situation is different because of the personality of each cat
, the personality of the owners and the circumstances they live in.
You've obviously made a great effort with your cats.
Alison


"KellyH" wrote in message
news:jsXmc.1593$536.371909@attbi_s03...
" I strongly disagree that keeping multiple cats indoors is
stressful for
them. It can be for cats that have no stimulation, and usually only
cats
exhibit signs of boredom. We have a good sized house, the cats do
not
appear to be crowded and they all have their own places they like to
hang
out. There are lots of windows and a large cat tower for them to
climb.
Maybe I should clarify: the episodes of bad behavior I describe with
Bartleby are not typical. These do not happen every day. We were
going
through a stretch of him chasing NewCat a week or two ago, but that
appears
to have resolved. I know having 6 cats seems like a lot, but
everyone who
comes over remarks how friendly and well-adjusted they all are. My
petsitter couldn't believe I have such a calm cat family.

Perhaps your cat is bipoplar or maybe he is bored or frustrated.
Maybe he is chewing because he is lacking something in his diet,
has
an illness or has a behaviour problem. Cats are changable by
nature,
what we consider odd behaviour is natural to them.
I think a behaviourist would be a good idea if he or she could
come
to your house to assess the situation.
Alison


I have heard of pica in cats, perhaps Bartleby has a touch of that,
and
that's why he eats hair sometimes.


--
-Kelly
kelly at farringtons dot net
Check out www.snittens.com

Hi Kelly ,
Every situation is different because of the personality of each cat
, the personality of the owners and the circumstances they live in.
You've obviously made a great effort with your cats.
Alison


"KellyH" wrote in message
news:jsXmc.1593$536.371909@attbi_s03...
" I strongly disagree that keeping multiple cats indoors is
stressful for
them. It can be for cats that have no stimulation, and usually only
cats
exhibit signs of boredom. We have a good sized house, the cats do
not
appear to be crowded and they all have their own places they like to
hang
out. There are lots of windows and a large cat tower for them to
climb.
Maybe I should clarify: the episodes of bad behavior I describe with
Bartleby are not typical. These do not happen every day. We were
going
through a stretch of him chasing NewCat a week or two ago, but that
appears
to have resolved. I know having 6 cats seems like a lot, but
everyone who
comes over remarks how friendly and well-adjusted they all are. My
petsitter couldn't believe I have such a calm cat family.

Perhaps your cat is bipoplar or maybe he is bored or frustrated.
Maybe he is chewing because he is lacking something in his diet,
has
an illness or has a behaviour problem. Cats are changable by
nature,
what we consider odd behaviour is natural to them.
I think a behaviourist would be a good idea if he or she could
come
to your house to assess the situation.
Alison


I have heard of pica in cats, perhaps Bartleby has a touch of that,
and
that's why he eats hair sometimes.


--
-Kelly
kelly at farringtons dot net
Check out www.snittens.com

"Cheryl" wrote in message
...

I've talked about that with his vet. She doesn't believe it is a
food
allergy because depo shots keep his skin clear for 2-3 months. She
said
if it was a food allergy, depo wouldn't work for that long.
Especially
since he eats the same things all the time. We tried to go the
ellimination route but it was Hills ZD and being a dry food, he
wouldn't
eat it. Plus, it irks the hell out of Shadow's IBD and if there is
dry
food around, it is hard to keep Shadow out of it. He wouldn't touch
the
canned IVD hypo-allergenic foods. I have thought it was a fish
allergy
but again, the vet doesn't believe it to be a food allergy. She
diagnosed him with EGC by ellimination of other possibilies and EGC
can
sometimes be idiopathic. I can tell she still thinks it is fleas by
the
way she combs him every time we go in for a shot. Some people here
have
suggested it could be a residue on the carpet, and that could be the
case. I still haven't done a steam cleaning with just steam (no
detergent) but now that spring is here, I think it is time.

--
Cheryl


Hi Cheryl ,
Sounds a nightmare .!
As I've said before Kim has allergies. I've never had her tested but
I know she is allergic to fleas and it can only take one flea bite to
get her scratching , she is allergic to flea collars too and the
Acclaim I spray the carpets with twice a year , if she manages to
lick the spot on flea treatment , it make her bottom lip swell . I
also think she is allergic to her food as well , perhaps the wheat or
the additives. I give her canned food that is wheat and additive free
whioch fortunately she eats . I noticed her coat improved when I
stopped feeding her the ordinary cat foods. However, since she has
to have a supplement Cystease which she doesn't like, the only way to
get her to eat this is to mix it in a50 g Sheba or Felix each day and
even this small amount seems to affect her coat .
You've seen these before but I posting them again for those that
haven't .
Allergies
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body...allergies.html

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body...allergies.html

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body...granuloma.html


About calling in a pet behaviour and calming drugs.
Have you discussed drugs with your vet yet? . She is the one who will
know about them, she might also ask you to consult a behaviourist
first and perhaps recommend one.
You have experience and understanding of cats but if you find the
right behaviourist , it could be a great help but on the other hand a
not so good one could do more damage.

In the UK , a vet will recommend a behaviourist or you can find one
through

The Association of Pet Behaviour Counsellors
http://www.apbc.org.uk/

and
COAPE
http://www.coape.f9.co.uk/
Centre Of Applied Pet Ethology

The COAPE behaviourists generally will come to your house for a visit,
especially for cats as they need to sum up the big picture. They take
note of the lay- out of the house , each cat personality , the owners'
personalities and the relationship between cats and owners and the
relationship between the different cats . They assess what the problem
is and what could have caused it. It can be quite a thorough interview
and perhaps upsetting in cases where divorce and bereavement have
occured. There are always labels for behaviour like redirected
aggression or petting aggression but sometimes it's never that
simple.

A behaviorists trained by COAPE takes into great consideration the
emotions of the cat and they will make :
An emotional assessment of the cat at the time of his
action(behaviour) e,g angry , aroused , frightened.
A mood state assessment of how he feels generally e.g what is
imposed on him by changing circumstances
A Reinforcement assessment of why the behaviour persists and
how can the owner reinforce a new associative behaviour.(That's the
hard part!)

You and the cats have been through a great deal of upset and loss and
changes.
From Shamrock's point of view, he has been through: his past before
he met you , Shadows illness , the sad loss of your son, Shamrock's
and your distress and shock at your loss , the introduction of a new
cat , his own allergies, vet trips and nasty injections.
Any of this alone could trigger a change of mood and anxiety in a
cat, so I expect that all of these over a period of time has made
Shamrock feel anxious, less competent to be able to deal with life
and more emotionally reactive He deals with it by being aggressive
whereas other cats might deal with it by beconing more withdrawn.
None of this has been anyone's fault. I think you're doing really well
and I'm surprised that you don't have worse problems with them.

Also, you said that Bonnie had been chasing Shadow too, so that might
have something to do with it . At the time, you shook a can of pennies
at Bonnie when she chased Shadow , and it's possible that Shamrock
associated the horrid noise with them and he gets aroused and angry
when he sees them . This happens to people too. About 4 years, ago I
had a terrible row with a near neighbour and even now, if I catch a
glimpse of her I get flooded with tension and anxiety , somtimes I
cross over the street or we pass and ignore each other but it wouldn't
take much to start another row .(

When you seperate Shadow during the day, can Bonnie and Shamrock still
see him? If not maybe you could put something up like a screen door ,
(Pam Johnson Bennet recommends baby gates but maybe a small cat could
get through them) so they can still see each other. When they meet at
night , catching sight of Shadow won't act as a trigger to Shamrock's
behaviour.
I hope this helps a little bit and I hope I haven't upset or offended
you in any way .
Alison

"Cheryl" wrote in message
...

I've talked about that with his vet. She doesn't believe it is a
food
allergy because depo shots keep his skin clear for 2-3 months. She
said
if it was a food allergy, depo wouldn't work for that long.
Especially
since he eats the same things all the time. We tried to go the
ellimination route but it was Hills ZD and being a dry food, he
wouldn't
eat it. Plus, it irks the hell out of Shadow's IBD and if there is
dry
food around, it is hard to keep Shadow out of it. He wouldn't touch
the
canned IVD hypo-allergenic foods. I have thought it was a fish
allergy
but again, the vet doesn't believe it to be a food allergy. She
diagnosed him with EGC by ellimination of other possibilies and EGC
can
sometimes be idiopathic. I can tell she still thinks it is fleas by
the
way she combs him every time we go in for a shot. Some people here
have
suggested it could be a residue on the carpet, and that could be the
case. I still haven't done a steam cleaning with just steam (no
detergent) but now that spring is here, I think it is time.

--
Cheryl


Hi Cheryl ,
Sounds a nightmare .!
As I've said before Kim has allergies. I've never had her tested but
I know she is allergic to fleas and it can only take one flea bite to
get her scratching , she is allergic to flea collars too and the
Acclaim I spray the carpets with twice a year , if she manages to
lick the spot on flea treatment , it make her bottom lip swell . I
also think she is allergic to her food as well , perhaps the wheat or
the additives. I give her canned food that is wheat and additive free
whioch fortunately she eats . I noticed her coat improved when I
stopped feeding her the ordinary cat foods. However, since she has
to have a supplement Cystease which she doesn't like, the only way to
get her to eat this is to mix it in a50 g Sheba or Felix each day and
even this small amount seems to affect her coat .
You've seen these before but I posting them again for those that
haven't .
Allergies
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body...allergies.html

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body...allergies.html

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body...granuloma.html


About calling in a pet behaviour and calming drugs.
Have you discussed drugs with your vet yet? . She is the one who will
know about them, she might also ask you to consult a behaviourist
first and perhaps recommend one.
You have experience and understanding of cats but if you find the
right behaviourist , it could be a great help but on the other hand a
not so good one could do more damage.

In the UK , a vet will recommend a behaviourist or you can find one
through

The Association of Pet Behaviour Counsellors
http://www.apbc.org.uk/

and
COAPE
http://www.coape.f9.co.uk/
Centre Of Applied Pet Ethology

The COAPE behaviourists generally will come to your house for a visit,
especially for cats as they need to sum up the big picture. They take
note of the lay- out of the house , each cat personality , the owners'
personalities and the relationship between cats and owners and the
relationship between the different cats . They assess what the problem
is and what could have caused it. It can be quite a thorough interview
and perhaps upsetting in cases where divorce and bereavement have
occured. There are always labels for behaviour like redirected
aggression or petting aggression but sometimes it's never that
simple.

A behaviorists trained by COAPE takes into great consideration the
emotions of the cat and they will make :
An emotional assessment of the cat at the time of his
action(behaviour) e,g angry , aroused , frightened.
A mood state assessment of how he feels generally e.g what is
imposed on him by changing circumstances
A Reinforcement assessment of why the behaviour persists and
how can the owner reinforce a new associative behaviour.(That's the
hard part!)

You and the cats have been through a great deal of upset and loss and
changes.
From Shamrock's point of view, he has been through: his past before
he met you , Shadows illness , the sad loss of your son, Shamrock's
and your distress and shock at your loss , the introduction of a new
cat , his own allergies, vet trips and nasty injections.
Any of this alone could trigger a change of mood and anxiety in a
cat, so I expect that all of these over a period of time has made
Shamrock feel anxious, less competent to be able to deal with life
and more emotionally reactive He deals with it by being aggressive
whereas other cats might deal with it by beconing more withdrawn.
None of this has been anyone's fault. I think you're doing really well
and I'm surprised that you don't have worse problems with them.

Also, you said that Bonnie had been chasing Shadow too, so that might
have something to do with it . At the time, you shook a can of pennies
at Bonnie when she chased Shadow , and it's possible that Shamrock
associated the horrid noise with them and he gets aroused and angry
when he sees them . This happens to people too. About 4 years, ago I
had a terrible row with a near neighbour and even now, if I catch a
glimpse of her I get flooded with tension and anxiety , somtimes I
cross over the street or we pass and ignore each other but it wouldn't
take much to start another row .(

When you seperate Shadow during the day, can Bonnie and Shamrock still
see him? If not maybe you could put something up like a screen door ,
(Pam Johnson Bennet recommends baby gates but maybe a small cat could
get through them) so they can still see each other. When they meet at
night , catching sight of Shadow won't act as a trigger to Shamrock's
behaviour.
I hope this helps a little bit and I hope I haven't upset or offended
you in any way .
Alison

"Alison" wrote in message
...
Hi Kelly ,
Every situation is different because of the personality of each cat the
personality of the owners and the circumstances they live in. You've
obviously made a great effort with your cats.

Alison,

It's that UK/US difference again. My girls climb the cat trees, chase the
laser pointer, and zip around the house in great spirits every day. (The
latest thing Cheeks likes to do is leap around like a monkey until she has
bunched up the carpet runner on the stone floor in the hall, then lay on her
side and rabbit kick it. Very cute.)

Buddha is very active, eight years old, and has never once in her life been
outside. She plays, she leaps, she lays on her back and contemplates the
ceiling in a Zen trance, licking her little white mittens every couple of
minutes, then leaps up to stalk Cheeky and charges her like a little bull.

It would be cruel to let them out, here, where dogs or cars would certainly
kill them. But I can imagine if I had a lovely walled garden, or just a big
piece of land, no cars zooming past all day and all night, that it would be
hard to imagine that a cat deprived of that could be happy. Here outside
equals injury and death in most urban areas. I wish it weren't so.



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