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Cat's urine ph very high



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 29th 05, 04:59 AM
Lynn via CatKB.com
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Default Cat's urine ph very high

Looking for some advice. I just bought chemical strips to monitor my cat's urine at home. He is very prone to urinary blockage and I'm desperately trying to catch problems before they start. I just tested his urine and it is very alkaline (around 8). There are also leukocytes present but this could be due to the fact that the specamin was not sterile. Should the post prandial alkaline tide bring the ph this high? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks. Purrs that he's OK

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  #2  
Old January 29th 05, 07:33 AM
Phil P.
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"Lynn via CatKB.com" wrote in message
...
Looking for some advice. I just bought chemical strips to monitor my cat's

urine at home. He is very prone to urinary blockage and I'm desperately
trying to catch problems before they start. I just tested his urine and it
is very alkaline (around 8). There are also leukocytes present but this
could be due to the fact that the specamin was not sterile. Should the post
prandial alkaline tide bring the ph this high?


Sure - depending on the type of diet he's eating and the time elapsed
between feeding and testing. Also, urine pH is similar to urine glucose in
that urine pH at any given time can be affected by urine that has been
accumulating in the bladder with a different pH.

If your cat is prone to blockages, you might want to meal-feed him rather
than free choice (ad libitum feeding). Ad libitum feeding prolongs the
postprandial alkaline tide because the cat is eating continuously throughout
the day.

Also, you might want to switch him over to a good quality canned meat-based
diet. Sulfur-containing amino acids, phospholipids, and quality high
protein acidify the urine, whereas diets high in plant material alkalinize
it.

Feeding a canned diet will increase his water intake and water turnover and
result in a higher urine volume and more frequent urination. A higher
urine volume will dilute the concentration of crystalline particles in the
urine, and more frequent urination will result in the elimination of small
crystalline particles before they can grow into larger crystals that can
cause a blockage.

Btw, did you follow the development directions on the package?
Overdevelopment can result in erronously high readings.

Good luck,

Phil.

"With the qualities of cleanliness, discretion, affection, patience,
dignity, and courage that cats have, how many of us,
I ask you, would be capable of being cats?' --Fernand Mery
Feline Healthcare & Mo http://maxshouse.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline..._and_Behavior/




  #3  
Old January 29th 05, 08:46 AM
Lynn via CatKB.com
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Hi Phil,
Thanks for your response. I'm sure your knowledge about urinary tract problems has been a lifesaver to many on this board!

Here is a list of the steps I've taken to help reduce Noel's risk for reblocking. Please let me know if there is anything else you would suggest.

1. Longer term antibiotics. Noel's blockages seem to be related to infection. Each of his three blockages were accompanied by a substantial amount of bacteria in the urine. Struvite crystals were found in the urine but in small quantity (only detected on third slide). We think maybe the struvites exacerbated the problem but the infection was the primary factor. After three infections/blockages in three months, we decided to keep him on antibiotics for a full month to make sure that the infection was completely gone. It has been about six weeks since his last hospitalization and he seems to be doing well - keeping my fingers crossed!

2. Weight reduction. Noel, being an indoor cat who loves his treats, was quite overweight. At his highest he weighed nearly 18 lbs and my vet estimates his ideal weight at around 12.5-13 lbs. Six weeks ago we started him on Royal Canin Calorie Control food at 50% metabolism (2 cans daily). Since then he has lost over 2lbs - which is significantly better progress than we had anticipated. Thank goodness he likes the food and I know he's getting enough to eat because he always leaves a little left in his dish.

3. Cut out dry food and started feeding canned only. Noel used to eat half dry and half canned food. I'm trying to increase his fluid intake so I feed wet only and I actually add a little water to his food.

4. Trying to establish regular meal routine. He's used to free choice feeding and he's having a really tough time adapting to eating fewer larger meals. I'm kind of on the fence about this as there seems to be real debate in the literature about the best way to minimize the effects of the postprandial alkaline tide. Some say one or two larger meals is better as it shortens the duration of the alkaline tide and some say that free choice feeding of smaller meals is better because it reduces the intensity of the peaks. My vet and I are both on the fence on this and not really sure what to think. There is reputable literature that supports both approaches. Go figure!? I'm also cautious about the stress that might be caused by a drastic change in feeding habits.

5. Trying to keep the bladder empty and reduce the problems associated with urine retention. I put him in the litter about four times a day to make sure that he is not holding it in too long. He's cooperative and urinates every time I put him in the litter. Bless his heart!

6. Cranberry extract. Since Noel's blockages seem to be primarily caused by infection and his ph is typically on the alkaline side, I started giving him 250 mg of cranberry extract once a day. I'm hoping it will help to acidify his urine and discourage bacteria from adhering to the bladder wall.

7. Finally, I've started to monitor his urine at home. Today my vet gave me some chemical strips to keep an eye on the ph (among other things like blood, leukocytes etc.) at home. I'm hoping that this will help me to catch problems early before they snowball and he blocks again.

Sorry to bore you with the details. Just looking for another informed opinion. I'm really new to this stuff but I'm trying to do the best I can for my kitty. Thanks for the feedback Phil and thanks for listening!

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  #4  
Old January 29th 05, 03:26 PM
Jean B.
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Default

"Lynn via CatKB.com" wrote:

Hi Phil,
Thanks for your response. I'm sure your knowledge about urinary tract problems has been a lifesaver to many on this board!

Here is a list of the steps I've taken to help reduce Noel's risk for reblocking. Please let me know if there is anything else you would suggest.

1. Longer term antibiotics. Noel's blockages seem to be related to infection. Each of his three blockages were accompanied by a substantial amount of bacteria in the urine. Struvite crystals were found in the urine but in small quantity (only detected on third slide). We think maybe the struvites exacerbated the problem but the infection was the primary factor. After three infections/blockages in three months, we decided to keep him on antibiotics for a full month to make sure that the infection was completely gone. It has been about six weeks since his last hospitalization and he seems to be doing well - keeping my fingers crossed!

2. Weight reduction. Noel, being an indoor cat who loves his treats, was quite overweight. At his highest he weighed nearly 18 lbs and my vet estimates his ideal weight at around 12.5-13 lbs. Six weeks ago we started him on Royal Canin Calorie Control food at 50% metabolism (2 cans daily). Since then he has lost over 2lbs - which is significantly better progress than we had anticipated. Thank goodness he likes the food and I know he's getting enough to eat because he always leaves a little left in his dish.

3. Cut out dry food and started feeding canned only. Noel used to eat half dry and half canned food. I'm trying to increase his fluid intake so I feed wet only and I actually add a little water to his food.

4. Trying to establish regular meal routine. He's used to free choice feeding and he's having a really tough time adapting to eating fewer larger meals. I'm kind of on the fence about this as there seems to be real debate in the literature about the best way to minimize the effects of the postprandial alkaline tide. Some say one or two larger meals is better as it shortens the duration of the alkaline tide and some say that free choice feeding of smaller meals is better because it reduces the intensity of the peaks. My vet and I are both on the fence on this and not really sure what to think. There is reputable literature that supports both approaches. Go figure!? I'm also cautious about the stress that might be caused by a drastic change in feeding habits.

5. Trying to keep the bladder empty and reduce the problems associated with urine retention. I put him in the litter about four times a day to make sure that he is not holding it in too long. He's cooperative and urinates every time I put him in the litter. Bless his heart!

6. Cranberry extract. Since Noel's blockages seem to be primarily caused by infection and his ph is typically on the alkaline side, I started giving him 250 mg of cranberry extract once a day. I'm hoping it will help to acidify his urine and discourage bacteria from adhering to the bladder wall.

7. Finally, I've started to monitor his urine at home. Today my vet gave me some chemical strips to keep an eye on the ph (among other things like blood, leukocytes etc.) at home. I'm hoping that this will help me to catch problems early before they snowball and he blocks again.

Sorry to bore you with the details. Just looking for another informed opinion. I'm really new to this stuff but I'm trying to do the best I can for my kitty. Thanks for the feedback Phil and thanks for listening!

--
Message posted via http://www.catkb.com


Hey, Lynn! I, for one, am glad you posted this, since I am
dealing with Mingy's struvite crystals and blockage. Even though
he had no infection, the issues are the same (minus the
antibiotics), and I have many of the same questions and
observations. Good luck to both of us.
--
Jean B.
  #5  
Old January 29th 05, 04:50 PM
Lynn via CatKB.com
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Default

Hi Jean B.
I think this is one of the most frustrating problems kitties and their humans can experience. It seems as though there is not one definitive treatment for this so it really requires a lot of research and careful observation about your individual cat's situation. Here's hoping that you and I and other caretakers of kitties with FLTUD are up to the challenge. Best of luck with Mingy and keep me posted about his progress!

--
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  #6  
Old January 29th 05, 05:29 PM
Lynn via CatKB.com
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Default

Just checked Noel's urine again and his ph is around 6 - he hasn't eaten in about 9 hours so I'm thinking the high ph last night was just postprandial and not evidence of another UTI - I'm hoping.

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  #7  
Old January 29th 05, 05:55 PM
Lynn via CatKB.com
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Paging Dr. Phil...lol...In trying to monitor ph I've found that Noel always has leukocytes present in his urine when we check it. Not just a slight positive but as much as the strip can detect (+++). In the absence of other red flags my vet tells me that it is most likely the result of contamination of the sample. I know that catching the urine as the cat urinates in the litter box is not the best way to test but that is the least invasive way to monitor. Do you agree that the positive (+++) for leukocytes is indicative of contamination and not infection or some other problem. I guess the only way to know for sure is to collect the urine directly from the bladder but I'm not really willing to put Noel through any invasive tests when he is doing so well. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated. Maybe we should have our own "Dr. Phil" show! I for one am much more interested in discussing cats and thier issues than humans and theirs! lol

--
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  #8  
Old January 30th 05, 03:30 AM
Jean B.
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Posts: n/a
Default

"Lynn via CatKB.com" wrote:

Hi Jean B.
I think this is one of the most frustrating problems kitties and their humans can experience. It seems as though there is not one definitive treatment for this so it really requires a lot of research and careful observation about your individual cat's situation. Here's hoping that you and I and other caretakers of kitties with FLTUD are up to the challenge. Best of luck with Mingy and keep me posted about his progress!

--
Message posted via http://www.catkb.com


Eeeeegad! I've been doing research most of the day--and spend the
rest of my time running around in circles looking for cat food.
:-) Oh yes, and some portion of the day is spend trying to tempt
Mingy to eat his wet food. Some possible conclusions I am coming
to:

dry food is bad, because the cat's urine is too concentrated and
the cat doesn't pee frequently enough

grazing seems to have pros and cons, but to the degree that
grazing implies dry food, it seems also to be bad

while you want the cat's urine to be acidic, if it is too acidic,
you'll have other problems (maybe worse); witness the increase in
oxalate crystals

stress is a contributing factor, and it has to be taken into
consideration when changing the cat's diet
--
Jean B.
  #9  
Old January 30th 05, 07:29 AM
Phil P.
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Lynn via CatKB.com" wrote in message
...
Hi Phil,
Thanks for your response. I'm sure your knowledge about urinary tract

problems has been a lifesaver to many on this board!

Here is a list of the steps I've taken to help reduce Noel's risk for

reblocking. Please let me know if there is anything else you would suggest.

1. Longer term antibiotics. Noel's blockages seem to be related to

infection. Each of his three blockages were accompanied by a substantial
amount of bacteria in the urine. Struvite crystals were found in the urine
but in small quantity (only detected on third slide).


A little bit of struvite is often found in normal cats and doesn't nessarily
represent a risk factor for urolithiasis or obstruction because its usually
eliminated before it can grow into larger crystals or uroliths. Its also
possible to find struvite in normally acidic urine if not enough time has
passed for struvite to dissolve - or if the urine wasn't acidic enough.


We think maybe the struvites exacerbated the problem but the infection was

the primary factor. After three infections/blockages in three months, we
decided to keep him on antibiotics for a full month to make sure that the
infection was completely gone. It has been about six weeks since his last
hospitalization and he seems to be doing well - keeping my fingers crossed!



Bacteria in the urine can stick to the outside of crystals. So, the
bacteria in the urine may or may not have been the cause or even involved in
the formation of the crystals. The only way you can tell with reasonable
certainty if the crystals are infection-induced struvite is to culture the
*inside* of the crystal. The inside of the crystal is less likely to be
contaminated with bacteria in the urine.





2. Weight reduction. Noel, being an indoor cat who loves his treats, was

quite overweight. At his highest he weighed nearly 18 lbs and my vet
estimates his ideal weight at around 12.5-13 lbs. Six weeks ago we started
him on Royal Canin Calorie Control food at 50% metabolism (2 cans daily).
Since then he has lost over 2lbs - which is significantly better progress
than we had anticipated. Thank goodness he likes the food and I know he's
getting enough to eat because he always leaves a little left in his dish.



You should allow no more than 1 lb of weight loss/4 weeks for a safe weight
loss program. Seems a little too much of a loss too quickly.



3. Cut out dry food and started feeding canned only.



Wise choice. I don't think its the fat in the food that causes weight gain
in cats - its the carbohydrates, and dry foods are loaded with carbs.


Noel used to eat half dry and half canned food. I'm trying to increase his

fluid intake so I feed wet only and I actually add a little water to his
food.


Smart play.


4. Trying to establish regular meal routine. He's used to free choice

feeding and he's having a really tough time adapting to eating fewer larger
meals. I'm kind of on the fence about this as there seems to be real debate
in the literature about the best way to minimize the effects of the
postprandial alkaline tide. Some say one or two larger meals is better as it
shortens the duration of the alkaline tide and some say that free choice
feeding of smaller meals is better because it reduces the intensity of the
peaks.



Both are valid arguments. However, free-feeding almost always involves dry
food. Usually (but not always) canned food contains more and higher quality
protein and phospholipids which helps to acidify the urine. Also, dry food
is usually less digestible than equal quality canned food which means the
cat must eat more food to meet her energy needs - and in doing so, consumes
more magnesium. Although struvite is a function of urine pH and not
magnesium, magnesium becomes very important when urine pH rises over 6.4
because the Mg in the urine determines how much struvite will form. Also,
the reduced digestibility of dry food results in more water in the feces and
less in the urine - which increases the concentration of solutes in the
urine.

There was a landmark study in Denmark some years ago wherein two groups of
cats ate dry and canned diets of equal magnesium content and were fed
according to their energy needs (in kcals). The group fed dry food had
nearly 3x the magnesium in their urine than the can-fed cats.

In nature, cats eat 8-12 mice throughout day - but ferals don't seem to be
dropping from oliguric acute renal. This is because they eat meat protein
and very, very little plant material.

I also think free feeding requires more acidification which can have
deterimental effects on the kidneys. In fact an ACVIM study showed free-fed
cats to be at higher risk of CRF.

You also have to watch the fiber - fiber can reduce urine volume because it
binds water in the intestine, making less water available for urine volume.


My vet and I are both on the fence on this and not really sure what to

think. There is reputable literature that supports both approaches. Go
figure!?


When I get home I'll dig out some references. Some of them are oldies but
goodies but I don't think they've been refuted yet.


I'm also cautious about the stress that might be caused by a drastic

change in feeding habits.


The least stressful method of acclimating a cat to a new diet is gradually
adding the new food to his regular food and decreasing the old food by the
same amount. The smaller the increments the easier the transition (and
longer it will take).

Switching from ad libitum to meal-fed requires a bit more work and patience.
First make sure he accepts the food. Leave the food out for no more than 30
min. to an hour at feeding time regardless of how much he eats. It might
take him a few a days to learn the schedule but he'll get the idea. Just
don't take the food away too quickly - or he'll feel he has to scoff the
food down in a hurry -- which can lead vomiting and even more stress.


5. Trying to keep the bladder empty and reduce the problems associated

with urine retention. I put him in the litter about four times a day to make
sure that he is not holding it in too long. He's cooperative and urinates
every time I put him in the litter. Bless his heart!


You have a good cat! However, it might be better to let him go normally.
When the bladder and urethral distend mucosal folds and crevices are
obliterated in which bacteria can hide.







6. Cranberry extract. Since Noel's blockages seem to be primarily caused

by infection and his ph is typically on the alkaline side, I started giving
him 250 mg of cranberry extract once a day. I'm hoping it will help to
acidify his urine and discourage bacteria from adhering to the bladder wall.

The cranberry fad has been extrapolated from human studies - and I don't
think it was shown to actually increase acidity.




7. Finally, I've started to monitor his urine at home. Today my vet gave

me some chemical strips to keep an eye on the ph (among other things like
blood, leukocytes etc.) at home. I'm hoping that this will help me to catch
problems early before they snowball and he blocks again.

Have you considered a hand-held pH meter? They're more accurate and more
economical than dipsticks. Here's a good one for $30.

http://www.sargentwelch.com/product...._pH+Checker_E_

Here's a little smaller checker for $22

http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/...id/834/cid/136


Sorry to bore you with the details. Just looking for another informed

opinion. I'm really new to this stuff but I'm trying to do the best I can
for my kitty.


I can see that and its truly a pleasure to see someone care so much. It
makes me want try to help more.


Thanks for the feedback Phil and thanks for listening!



I just hope you find the information helpful.

Best of luck!


Phil.

"Cat people are different, to the extent that they
generally are not conformists.
How could the be, with a cat running their lives?"
--Louis Camuti
Feline Healthca http://maxshouse.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline..._and_Behavior/



..



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  #10  
Old January 30th 05, 07:31 AM
Phil P.
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Lynn via CatKB.com" wrote in message
...
Just checked Noel's urine again and his ph is around 6 - he hasn't eaten

in about 9 hours so I'm thinking the high ph last night was just
postprandial and not evidence of another UTI - I'm hoping.


I think so too. If your cat urinates on demand (wow!), try checking his UpH
ever four hours. You should see a steady decline.

Phil

"Cat eyes seem a bridge to a world
beyond the one we know"
--Lynn Hollyn
Feline Healthcare - http://maxshouse.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline..._and_Behavior/


 




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