Advice needed for agressive cat

Our newest addition, Cleo, is terrorizing Smokey. Some days are better than
others, but Smokey is not handling it too well. Cleo does this mostly when
we're not watching, so it's difficult to know what's happening. I suspect
it's mostly a territorial issue, but there are also times when she's just
trying to play and Smokey overreacts. I have caught Cleo stalking Smokey
like she's trying to drive her off. We do our best to keep them apart, but
this is not possible 24/7. Cleo has also had some issues with Cali, but Cali
will not put up with her crap. Cali has even been coming to Smokey's aid
after Cleo attacks her. The other factor is that Cali does not spend as much
time with me, so Cleo probably sees her as less of a threat. Cleo is VERY
clingy and is pretty much glued to a body part 24/7.

The best thing that could happen would be for Smokey to stand up to Cleo,
but this does not seem likely. This would not stop all the problems (Cleo is
not phased by either cat), but it would likely reduce the stalking and
random attacks. One of the biggest territorial issues is the bed; Smokey was
used to sleeping with me most nights. In the beginning Cleo would tolerate
Smokey in the bed, but she has been charging her lately when she tries to
come to bed. Smokey has become very skilled at sneaking under the covers to
avoid Cleo.

Fortunately Smokey is fairly easy going, so she has not exhibited any
serious behavioural issues YET. But I'd like to nip this before it gets any
worse. The first thing I'd like to try is some sort of behaviour
modification. So far we have been reassuring Smokey, scolding Cleo and
trying to keep them apart. Cali is also doing her part. Any suggestions
appreciated. If this doesn't work I guess we could try Kitty Prozac,
although a shot of Testosterone would probably do Smokey wonders. Finally,
Cleo will be going to a new home if things progress as I fear they might.

TIA

On 2005-11-06 10:55:05 -0600, "Bill Stock" said:

Our newest addition, Cleo, is terrorizing Smokey. Some days are better
than others, but Smokey is not handling it too well. Cleo does this
mostly when we're not watching, so it's difficult to know what's
happening. I suspect it's mostly a territorial issue, but there are
also times when she's just trying to play and Smokey overreacts. I have
caught Cleo stalking Smokey like she's trying to drive her off. We do
our best to keep them apart, but this is not possible 24/7. Cleo has
also had some issues with Cali, but Cali will not put up with her crap.
Cali has even been coming to Smokey's aid after Cleo attacks her. The
other factor is that Cali does not spend as much time with me, so Cleo
probably sees her as less of a threat. Cleo is VERY clingy and is
pretty much glued to a body part 24/7.

The best thing that could happen would be for Smokey to stand up to
Cleo, but this does not seem likely. This would not stop all the
problems (Cleo is not phased by either cat), but it would likely reduce
the stalking and random attacks. One of the biggest territorial issues
is the bed; Smokey was used to sleeping with me most nights. In the
beginning Cleo would tolerate Smokey in the bed, but she has been
charging her lately when she tries to come to bed. Smokey has become
very skilled at sneaking under the covers to avoid Cleo.

Fortunately Smokey is fairly easy going, so she has not exhibited any
serious behavioural issues YET. But I'd like to nip this before it gets
any worse. The first thing I'd like to try is some sort of behaviour
modification. So far we have been reassuring Smokey, scolding Cleo and
trying to keep them apart. Cali is also doing her part. Any
suggestions appreciated. If this doesn't work I guess we could try
Kitty Prozac, although a shot of Testosterone would probably do Smokey
wonders. Finally, Cleo will be going to a new home if things progress
as I fear they might.

TIA

Well, you can look for the aggression before it GETS agressive; tip the
scale ahead of time and serve treats to distract them. I also used time
out. If the treats didn't completely negate "fixation mode" then Pearl
had to go in the bedroom for a while. She was always seriously more
well behaved and purposely avoided Sugar or Grant after a half hour or
so in time out. I did this for a long time.

"Karen" wrote in message
news:2005110611355227590%kchuplis@alltelnet...
On 2005-11-06 10:55:05 -0600, "Bill Stock" said:


[snip]

Well, you can look for the aggression before it GETS agressive; tip the
scale ahead of time and serve treats to distract them. I also used time
out. If the treats didn't completely negate "fixation mode" then Pearl had
to go in the bedroom for a while. She was always seriously more well
behaved and purposely avoided Sugar or Grant after a half hour or so in
time out. I did this for a long time.

Thanks Karen,

Cleo has somewhat of a hair trigger, so it's not always possible to avoid
the problems. One day Cali was walking past the TV couch (territory) and
Cleo jumped at her head with no warning, both paws swinging. Cleo is also
smart enough to know it's not acceptable and often attacks when we aren't
around. Last night she attacked Smokey on the Living Room couch while she
was sleeping. This was followed by Cali smacking Cleo about and then making
sure Smokey was OK.

Right now they're sleeping a foot apart, one on the window hammock and the
other on the aquarium. Cleo did smack Smokey when she first go up there, but
Smokey did not run off this time. I got the tongue when I told Cleo "NO", so
she does get the point, but is not happy about it.

I was thinking of locking Cleo out of the bedroom at nights, but I don't
think she would react well to this. Perhaps short periods might be effective
as you mention, provided we could stand the yowling. We think she might be
part Siamese, as she's always mirring to herself and starts to yowl if she's
away from her people for more than a few minutes.

Bill, I responded to you in a previous thread and gave you a link to a
post where I described why yelling at and scolding a cat does NOTHING to
stop aggressive behavior and will make it worse. You obviously are
finding this out. I also talked about Karen's poor advice WRT time outs,
which she admitted didn't really work as her cat still exhibits
aggressive behavior, and are also not effective in helping to develop a
good relationship between two cats.

Here is the link again:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.p...f84577c?hl=en&

The method I describe will not work overnight, but if you stay
consistent you will see a change. It also wouldn't hurt to get some
Feliway diffusers and plug them in in the rooms where the cats spend the
most time. Petguys.com has a pretty good deal on them:
http://search.store.yahoo.com/cgi-bi...ue ry=feliway


Megan



"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."

-Edmund Burke

Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
http://www.stopdeclaw.com

Zuzu's Cats Photo Album:
http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22

"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one
elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and
splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then
providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision,
raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and
material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his
way."

- W.H. Murray

On Sun, 6 Nov 2005 13:02:42 -0500, "Bill Stock"
yodeled:


"Karen" wrote in message
news:2005110611355227590%kchuplis@alltelnet...
On 2005-11-06 10:55:05 -0600, "Bill Stock" said:


[snip]

Well, you can look for the aggression before it GETS agressive; tip the
scale ahead of time and serve treats to distract them. I also used time
out. If the treats didn't completely negate "fixation mode" then Pearl had
to go in the bedroom for a while. She was always seriously more well
behaved and purposely avoided Sugar or Grant after a half hour or so in
time out. I did this for a long time.

Thanks Karen,

Cleo has somewhat of a hair trigger, so it's not always possible to avoid
the problems. One day Cali was walking past the TV couch (territory) and
Cleo jumped at her head with no warning, both paws swinging. Cleo is also
smart enough to know it's not acceptable and often attacks when we aren't
around. Last night she attacked Smokey on the Living Room couch while she
was sleeping. This was followed by Cali smacking Cleo about and then making
sure Smokey was OK.

Right now they're sleeping a foot apart, one on the window hammock and the
other on the aquarium. Cleo did smack Smokey when she first go up there, but
Smokey did not run off this time. I got the tongue when I told Cleo "NO", so
she does get the point, but is not happy about it.

I was thinking of locking Cleo out of the bedroom at nights, but I don't
think she would react well to this. Perhaps short periods might be effective
as you mention, provided we could stand the yowling. We think she might be
part Siamese, as she's always mirring to herself and starts to yowl if she's
away from her people for more than a few minutes.


I don't have any useful suggestions for you, but I am sort of grateful
for your posting to remind me of the difference between real
aggression and normal-range feline shenanigans. My guys aren't
friends (alas), but neither of them is aggressive, thank Bast. Just
goofy.


Theresa
Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh
My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com

Make Levees, Not War

"Kreisleriana" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 6 Nov 2005 13:02:42 -0500, "Bill Stock"
yodeled:


"Karen" wrote in message
news:2005110611355227590%kchuplis@alltelnet...
On 2005-11-06 10:55:05 -0600, "Bill Stock" said:


[snip]

Well, you can look for the aggression before it GETS agressive; tip the
scale ahead of time and serve treats to distract them. I also used time
out. If the treats didn't completely negate "fixation mode" then Pearl
had
to go in the bedroom for a while. She was always seriously more well
behaved and purposely avoided Sugar or Grant after a half hour or so in
time out. I did this for a long time.

Thanks Karen,

Cleo has somewhat of a hair trigger, so it's not always possible to avoid
the problems. One day Cali was walking past the TV couch (territory) and
Cleo jumped at her head with no warning, both paws swinging. Cleo is also
smart enough to know it's not acceptable and often attacks when we aren't
around. Last night she attacked Smokey on the Living Room couch while she
was sleeping. This was followed by Cali smacking Cleo about and then
making
sure Smokey was OK.

Right now they're sleeping a foot apart, one on the window hammock and the
other on the aquarium. Cleo did smack Smokey when she first go up there,
but
Smokey did not run off this time. I got the tongue when I told Cleo "NO",
so
she does get the point, but is not happy about it.

I was thinking of locking Cleo out of the bedroom at nights, but I don't
think she would react well to this. Perhaps short periods might be
effective
as you mention, provided we could stand the yowling. We think she might be
part Siamese, as she's always mirring to herself and starts to yowl if
she's
away from her people for more than a few minutes.


I don't have any useful suggestions for you, but I am sort of grateful
for your posting to remind me of the difference between real
aggression and normal-range feline shenanigans. My guys aren't
friends (alas), but neither of them is aggressive, thank Bast. Just
goofy.

Cali and Smokey aren't best buddies, but there is no real malice either.
Smokey is very jealous and likes to push Cali away from the fire or out of
bed. Cali seems to understand that Smokey is mentally challenged
(anthropomorphizing I know) and doesn't take it personally. But Smokey and
Cleo tend to glare at each other, with a lot of tail swishing.



Theresa
Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh
My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com

Make Levees, Not War

Bill Stock wrote:
Our newest addition, Cleo, is terrorizing Smokey. Some days are better than
others, but Smokey is not handling it too well. Cleo does this mostly when
we're not watching, so it's difficult to know what's happening. I suspect
it's mostly a territorial issue, but there are also times when she's just
trying to play and Smokey overreacts. I have caught Cleo stalking Smokey
like she's trying to drive her off. We do our best to keep them apart, but
this is not possible 24/7. Cleo has also had some issues with Cali, but Cali
will not put up with her crap. Cali has even been coming to Smokey's aid
after Cleo attacks her. The other factor is that Cali does not spend as much
time with me, so Cleo probably sees her as less of a threat. Cleo is VERY
clingy and is pretty much glued to a body part 24/7.

The best thing that could happen would be for Smokey to stand up to Cleo,
but this does not seem likely. This would not stop all the problems (Cleo is
not phased by either cat), but it would likely reduce the stalking and
random attacks. One of the biggest territorial issues is the bed; Smokey was
used to sleeping with me most nights. In the beginning Cleo would tolerate
Smokey in the bed, but she has been charging her lately when she tries to
come to bed. Smokey has become very skilled at sneaking under the covers to
avoid Cleo.

Fortunately Smokey is fairly easy going, so she has not exhibited any
serious behavioural issues YET. But I'd like to nip this before it gets any
worse. The first thing I'd like to try is some sort of behaviour
modification. So far we have been reassuring Smokey, scolding Cleo and
trying to keep them apart. Cali is also doing her part. Any suggestions
appreciated. If this doesn't work I guess we could try Kitty Prozac,
although a shot of Testosterone would probably do Smokey wonders. Finally,
Cleo will be going to a new home if things progress as I fear they might.

TIA

No magic words for you, or links or anything else, but just wanted to
say it will probably all work out eventually. What you've described is
a lot like around here when Biskit first came. Boots hated her. Still
hates her, but they co-habit peacefully now at least. You probably
already know that watching body language, expressions and such will
tell you that Cleo's "thinking" about jumping Smoky. You can pick Cleo
up, distract her, give her a treat, whatever, to make her forget about
what she's doing. I don't think that's the magic method, I just think
it will get them by until enough TIME lapses that she learns to accept
Smokey. IIRC it took several months for Boots to come around
completely. (Well, by then we got Bosley, and I suspect that's why she
finally let Biskit in the "in-club".
Except I never tried to sleep in the same bed with both Biskit and
Boots. Whoa Nelly. I don't even want to think about that. :-)
Good luck.

Sherry

Bill Stock wrote:


Cali and Smokey aren't best buddies, but there is no real malice either.
Smokey is very jealous and likes to push Cali away from the fire or out of
bed. Cali seems to understand that Smokey is mentally challenged
(anthropomorphizing I know) and doesn't take it personally. But Smokey and
Cleo tend to glare at each other, with a lot of tail swishing.

Your first posted sounded like my Biskit and Boots. Now THIS one sounds
like Boots and Frank. Boots likes Frank. He's the only one she *does*
like. And he's definitely not a smart cat. The only time she gets
irritated with him, and will whop him with her paw is when he is doing
something particularly stupid. He likes to "dig" on the picture hanging
behind the couch, and dig on the bathroom mirror. This really gets on
her nerves.

Sherry