Tough love for baaad kittie

In article ,
enlightened us with...

Ah, but:

The behavior, walking normally, is INCREASING because of a negative
stimulus...

TBH, I think Megan's more correct in her interpretation here. The
example is analogous to the usual spiel of a rat needing to press a
button to eliminate continual electric shocks.

Steve.


Even if I conceeded that it is indeed an example of negative
reinforcement (which I can see both sides of this argument, certainly,
but don't quite agree with it as a good example), it contradicts the
post that made me reply in the first place. The example of the rat
pressing a button is much clearer (much less ambiguous) and the example
I see most often.

Negative
reinforcement is a lousy concept that rarely works, and when it does the
response is based on fear and/or pain rather than a desire to exhibit
good behavior.

Sorry, but choke chains work great for eliminating pulling, and they
don't make a dog afraid or in pain in the least. Having had dogs and
having used choke chains, I can attest that my dogs are certainly not
afraid or in pain. Nor do they pull. Nor are the millions of dogs
trained that way fearful or in pain.

--
--
~kaeli~
Punctuation, capitalization, and grammar are your friends,
and will help people think that you aren't such an ignorant
moron, after all.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace

In article ,
enlightened us with...

Ah, but:

The behavior, walking normally, is INCREASING because of a negative
stimulus...

TBH, I think Megan's more correct in her interpretation here. The
example is analogous to the usual spiel of a rat needing to press a
button to eliminate continual electric shocks.

Steve.


Even if I conceeded that it is indeed an example of negative
reinforcement (which I can see both sides of this argument, certainly,
but don't quite agree with it as a good example), it contradicts the
post that made me reply in the first place. The example of the rat
pressing a button is much clearer (much less ambiguous) and the example
I see most often.

Negative
reinforcement is a lousy concept that rarely works, and when it does the
response is based on fear and/or pain rather than a desire to exhibit
good behavior.

Sorry, but choke chains work great for eliminating pulling, and they
don't make a dog afraid or in pain in the least. Having had dogs and
having used choke chains, I can attest that my dogs are certainly not
afraid or in pain. Nor do they pull. Nor are the millions of dogs
trained that way fearful or in pain.

--
--
~kaeli~
Punctuation, capitalization, and grammar are your friends,
and will help people think that you aren't such an ignorant
moron, after all.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace

Laura R. wrote:
circa Sun, 13 Jun 2004 02:36:52 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav,
gertrude ) said,

Understand that if you have a farm like mine in Kentucky with 22 cats then
you handle them differently than one does if only a single cat is kept in a
NYC apartment. It's just not the same.

BTW, you might want to look at the link in Megan's signature- this
one:
http://www.picturetrail.com/zuzu22

Don't forget to count while you're perusing...

I'd like to add that Megan has been a tremendous source of help to me
in learning how to monitor and care for my diabetic cat (diagnosed
in January). My vet didn't think home testing was necessary, and
wanted me to just shoot him up with insulin twice a day. But I started
testing him the day after he came home, and he stays in normal ranges
on the new diet without insulin. He might have died if I'd just kept
injecting him without testing.

--
jamie )

"There's a seeker born every minute."

Laura R. wrote:
circa Sun, 13 Jun 2004 02:36:52 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav,
gertrude ) said,

Understand that if you have a farm like mine in Kentucky with 22 cats then
you handle them differently than one does if only a single cat is kept in a
NYC apartment. It's just not the same.

BTW, you might want to look at the link in Megan's signature- this
one:
http://www.picturetrail.com/zuzu22

Don't forget to count while you're perusing...

I'd like to add that Megan has been a tremendous source of help to me
in learning how to monitor and care for my diabetic cat (diagnosed
in January). My vet didn't think home testing was necessary, and
wanted me to just shoot him up with insulin twice a day. But I started
testing him the day after he came home, and he stays in normal ranges
on the new diet without insulin. He might have died if I'd just kept
injecting him without testing.

--
jamie )

"There's a seeker born every minute."

Laura R. wrote:
circa Sun, 13 Jun 2004 02:36:52 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav,
gertrude ) said,

Understand that if you have a farm like mine in Kentucky with 22 cats then
you handle them differently than one does if only a single cat is kept in a
NYC apartment. It's just not the same.

BTW, you might want to look at the link in Megan's signature- this
one:
http://www.picturetrail.com/zuzu22

Don't forget to count while you're perusing...

I'd like to add that Megan has been a tremendous source of help to me
in learning how to monitor and care for my diabetic cat (diagnosed
in January). My vet didn't think home testing was necessary, and
wanted me to just shoot him up with insulin twice a day. But I started
testing him the day after he came home, and he stays in normal ranges
on the new diet without insulin. He might have died if I'd just kept
injecting him without testing.

--
jamie )

"There's a seeker born every minute."