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Big cats in England



 
 
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  #51  
Old April 22nd 04, 05:43 PM
Napoleon
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"Yowie" wrote in message . au...
"dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers" wrote in
message ...
I hope they'll be protected as well as studied.

Joy


Joy, big cats aren't native to the UK. If there are any in the wild (and I
think there most probably are a few), I have grave misgivings about them
remaining here. The theory is that they are cats that have escaped or have

been
deliberately released from private collections when legislation was

brought in
controlling who could have them and how/where they were kept.
Reasons for my misgivings - example, we now have wild mink in the UK. They

are
escapees (unintentional & deliberate escape - "liberation") and

descendents of
escapees from mink farms. The mink in question is the American Mink - it's

not
native to the UK and it has no natural predators over here. It also breeds
extremely well over here. It is destroying our native and now very rare,
extremely endangered water voles. There's nothing better a mink likes than

a
tasty water vole for lunch. The mink is killing off our own wild life

rather
efficiently. For example - the stream at the end of my garden is a

tributary of
the River Wensum. It had been mink free until quite recently. I used to

see a
lot of water voles about. I haven't seen *any* this year. There's no sign

of
them. Some time ago a downstream neighbour told me she'd seen a mink on

the
banks of the stream where it goes by her place. Mink have been reported
elsewhere on the river system too. Also, the number of fish in the stream

has
noticeably declined when the water is *good* and it's not fished to any

extent.

The other problem is that in relative terms, the UK is a small landmass,

highly
urbanised in many areas so there simply isn't the space for big cats to be
about in any quantity without possible serious consequences for people. In

this
case, it isn't the people encroaching on to land previously the natural

habitat
of the big cats, it's more the other way around.

I have very grave doubts about big cats remaining wild in the UK.


This problem of "imported" species out-doing the native species is a major
problem here in Australia, particularly when it comes to feral cats, dogs
and pigs, although there are many other introduced species that are wreaking
havoc in their own environmental niches (can toads, european carp, indian
mynah bird etc etc). Because Australia was so isolated for so long (in terms
of evolution) our native fauna simply doesn't have the natural methods of
dealing with the effecient hunters that come from other parts of the world.


I saw a program on TV a while back dealing at least in part with the
feral cat problem in Australia. It featured this somewhat repulsive
man who hunted cats for a bounty-his car had a sticker that said AFAIR
something like "The only good cat is a dead cat." He seemed to really
enjoy shooting the cats. Apparently also some aboriginial people in
Australia hunt and eat feral cats. There was a clip on the program
showing some aborigineal women chasing after a feral cat which they
caught and later cooked.






Ironically, one of our natives, the possum, is a large problem in New
Zealand, where it a pest and not part of the natural ecosystem.

Yowie

  #52  
Old April 22nd 04, 05:43 PM
Napoleon
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Yowie" wrote in message . au...
"dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers" wrote in
message ...
I hope they'll be protected as well as studied.

Joy


Joy, big cats aren't native to the UK. If there are any in the wild (and I
think there most probably are a few), I have grave misgivings about them
remaining here. The theory is that they are cats that have escaped or have

been
deliberately released from private collections when legislation was

brought in
controlling who could have them and how/where they were kept.
Reasons for my misgivings - example, we now have wild mink in the UK. They

are
escapees (unintentional & deliberate escape - "liberation") and

descendents of
escapees from mink farms. The mink in question is the American Mink - it's

not
native to the UK and it has no natural predators over here. It also breeds
extremely well over here. It is destroying our native and now very rare,
extremely endangered water voles. There's nothing better a mink likes than

a
tasty water vole for lunch. The mink is killing off our own wild life

rather
efficiently. For example - the stream at the end of my garden is a

tributary of
the River Wensum. It had been mink free until quite recently. I used to

see a
lot of water voles about. I haven't seen *any* this year. There's no sign

of
them. Some time ago a downstream neighbour told me she'd seen a mink on

the
banks of the stream where it goes by her place. Mink have been reported
elsewhere on the river system too. Also, the number of fish in the stream

has
noticeably declined when the water is *good* and it's not fished to any

extent.

The other problem is that in relative terms, the UK is a small landmass,

highly
urbanised in many areas so there simply isn't the space for big cats to be
about in any quantity without possible serious consequences for people. In

this
case, it isn't the people encroaching on to land previously the natural

habitat
of the big cats, it's more the other way around.

I have very grave doubts about big cats remaining wild in the UK.


This problem of "imported" species out-doing the native species is a major
problem here in Australia, particularly when it comes to feral cats, dogs
and pigs, although there are many other introduced species that are wreaking
havoc in their own environmental niches (can toads, european carp, indian
mynah bird etc etc). Because Australia was so isolated for so long (in terms
of evolution) our native fauna simply doesn't have the natural methods of
dealing with the effecient hunters that come from other parts of the world.


I saw a program on TV a while back dealing at least in part with the
feral cat problem in Australia. It featured this somewhat repulsive
man who hunted cats for a bounty-his car had a sticker that said AFAIR
something like "The only good cat is a dead cat." He seemed to really
enjoy shooting the cats. Apparently also some aboriginial people in
Australia hunt and eat feral cats. There was a clip on the program
showing some aborigineal women chasing after a feral cat which they
caught and later cooked.






Ironically, one of our natives, the possum, is a large problem in New
Zealand, where it a pest and not part of the natural ecosystem.

Yowie

  #53  
Old April 22nd 04, 08:12 PM
John Biltz
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Posts: n/a
Default

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:58:23 -0700, Cheryl Perkins wrote
(in article ):

Marina wrote:

This I don't understand. Why would they not want them to end up in another
zoo where they would have been looked after properly? Or maybe I could
understand if they couldn't be sure whether they would be euthanised or
sent
to another zoo. But still. You'd think public awareness of the dangers of
letting out non-native animals into the wrong environment would be at a
level where no-one would dream of doing it.


They're probably operating on exactly the same level of thinking as the
people who take unwanted domestic dogs and cats and simply abandon them
out in the country or in a distant part of town. They've convinced
themselves that they're doing the animal a favour by 'giving it a chance';
won't admit to themselves that the animal will almost certainly die slowly
from cold, hunger, and injuries from other animal attacks, or cars; and
can't face up to their responsibility.


I agree with you about the cats and dogs. But it appears in the case of
the big cats they were right in at least some cases.

  #54  
Old April 22nd 04, 08:12 PM
John Biltz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:58:23 -0700, Cheryl Perkins wrote
(in article ):

Marina wrote:

This I don't understand. Why would they not want them to end up in another
zoo where they would have been looked after properly? Or maybe I could
understand if they couldn't be sure whether they would be euthanised or
sent
to another zoo. But still. You'd think public awareness of the dangers of
letting out non-native animals into the wrong environment would be at a
level where no-one would dream of doing it.


They're probably operating on exactly the same level of thinking as the
people who take unwanted domestic dogs and cats and simply abandon them
out in the country or in a distant part of town. They've convinced
themselves that they're doing the animal a favour by 'giving it a chance';
won't admit to themselves that the animal will almost certainly die slowly
from cold, hunger, and injuries from other animal attacks, or cars; and
can't face up to their responsibility.


I agree with you about the cats and dogs. But it appears in the case of
the big cats they were right in at least some cases.

  #55  
Old April 22nd 04, 10:08 PM
m. L. Briggs
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Posts: n/a
Default

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:54:21 -0500, "MaryL"
-OUT-THE-LITTER wrote:


"JP Hobbs" jphobbsREMOVE THIS @dodo.com.au wrote in message
...
I LOVE big cats specially the tigers leopards and lions
they are so beautiful!!!!! Jean.P.


So do I, but I wouldn't be pleased to encounter one in my back yard...

MaryL

My thought exactly!
  #56  
Old April 22nd 04, 10:08 PM
m. L. Briggs
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Posts: n/a
Default

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:54:21 -0500, "MaryL"
-OUT-THE-LITTER wrote:


"JP Hobbs" jphobbsREMOVE THIS @dodo.com.au wrote in message
...
I LOVE big cats specially the tigers leopards and lions
they are so beautiful!!!!! Jean.P.


So do I, but I wouldn't be pleased to encounter one in my back yard...

MaryL

My thought exactly!
  #57  
Old April 23rd 04, 12:12 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Napoleon wrote:

I saw a program on TV a while back dealing at least in part with the
feral cat problem in Australia. It featured this somewhat repulsive
man who hunted cats for a bounty-his car had a sticker that said AFAIR
something like "The only good cat is a dead cat." He seemed to really
enjoy shooting the cats.


Apparently also some aboriginial people in
Australia hunt and eat feral cats. There was a clip on the program
showing some aborigineal women chasing after a feral cat which they
caught and later cooked.


Tell you the truth, I'm less offended by the people who actually eat
the cats than I am by the creep who just gets off on killing them. Not
to say I wouldn't be horrified to learn that somebody's pet cat had
been eaten!! But at least the impulse of killing to eat isn't an evil
one, whereas the guy who just enjoys shooting them is a sicko, IMO.

Joyce
  #58  
Old April 23rd 04, 12:12 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Napoleon wrote:

I saw a program on TV a while back dealing at least in part with the
feral cat problem in Australia. It featured this somewhat repulsive
man who hunted cats for a bounty-his car had a sticker that said AFAIR
something like "The only good cat is a dead cat." He seemed to really
enjoy shooting the cats.


Apparently also some aboriginial people in
Australia hunt and eat feral cats. There was a clip on the program
showing some aborigineal women chasing after a feral cat which they
caught and later cooked.


Tell you the truth, I'm less offended by the people who actually eat
the cats than I am by the creep who just gets off on killing them. Not
to say I wouldn't be horrified to learn that somebody's pet cat had
been eaten!! But at least the impulse of killing to eat isn't an evil
one, whereas the guy who just enjoys shooting them is a sicko, IMO.

Joyce
  #59  
Old April 23rd 04, 02:32 AM
JP Hobbs
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Posts: n/a
Default

Neither would I! Jean.P.

MaryL -OUT-THE-LITTER wrote in message
...

"JP Hobbs" jphobbsREMOVE THIS @dodo.com.au wrote in message
...
I LOVE big cats specially the tigers leopards and lions
they are so beautiful!!!!! Jean.P.


So do I, but I wouldn't be pleased to encounter one in my back yard...

MaryL




  #60  
Old April 23rd 04, 02:32 AM
JP Hobbs
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Neither would I! Jean.P.

MaryL -OUT-THE-LITTER wrote in message
...

"JP Hobbs" jphobbsREMOVE THIS @dodo.com.au wrote in message
...
I LOVE big cats specially the tigers leopards and lions
they are so beautiful!!!!! Jean.P.


So do I, but I wouldn't be pleased to encounter one in my back yard...

MaryL




 




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