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  #11  
Old September 7th 14, 11:13 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes
jmcquown[_2_]
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Posts: 8,008
Default I went onto Facebook and found

On 9/7/2014 5:54 PM, Christina Websell wrote:

maybe it's a good idea to save a cat/dog from a shelter and then keep it
inside for the rest of it's life. I don't think so. At all. and if
everyone examined their cats life when they are kept inside.. should you
have one?
Feel free to scream at me.
I'm offering it for debate. A kindly debate.
Myself, I wouldn't have a cat if it couldn't go outside. Feel free to
differ. I won't mind.

My opinion differs for two main reasons. (1) Someone had declawed
Persia so she really had no way to defend herself. (2) She led a very
idyllic life as an indoor cat. Toys, nice comfy places to nap, no
neighborhood cats to mess with her (she really didn't like other cats).

The one time she escaped (I thought she wasn't coming back) was enough
for her. She was chased by two big dogs while I was trying to coax her
to come to me. She apparently slept huddled under a bush. When she
finally did come back she was muddy and had leaves stuck to her fur.
She was very content to stay inside after that. Sure, she'd sit outside
with me in her Kitty Walk enclosure but she really wasn't interested in
the Big Out after that adventure.

Jill
  #12  
Old September 7th 14, 11:17 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes
Christina Websell
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Posts: 8,983
Default I went onto Facebook and found


"Christina Websell" wrote in message
...

"MaryL" wrote in message
...


"Christina Websell" wrote in message
...


"MaryL" wrote in message
...


"Christina Websell" wrote in message
...

Once again when a cat was found dead here from a heart attack someone
came
on from the USA and brought up the inside/outside debate again.
It wouldn't have made any difference, FGS.

I rarely enter into the inside/outside debate. It's safe here in the Uk
and
not in America and we must agree to disagree. I don't know of any cat
shelter here who would agree to home a cat into a indoor home.
so that's the difference between our countries and I suggest we leave it
at
that.
Please.

~~~~~~~
I understand (and accept) the point you are making, but I have often
wondered about metropolitan areas such as London. I do know that there
are at least *some* people in UK large cities who keep cats indoors.
What is the general practice in areas like that? I am not asking this
to start an argument. I genuinely wonder about statements that cat
shelters would not agree on an indoor home because the "predators" in
that case refers to traffic. Does your statement apply equally to rural
and metropolitan areas in the UK?

MaryL


No. but they are likely to refuse a home with a lot of traffic and
won't
let you adopt one. Which is sensible. I suppose. Not much traffic here
and huge gardens to lose themselves in.
I'd quite like to be that person who decides if the potential adopter is
good enough.

No-one assessed me for Kitty Farmcat. I wish they had refused.. No-one
assessed me for Boyfie. I think I've done well with both.

~~~~~~~~
That's another difference between the US and the UK. If I have
understood some of your messages correctly, you do no have an
overabundance of cats as we do. Many shelters here require their cats to
be kept indoor if it is an area with high traffic but probably not in
rural areas or other areas with low traffic volume. Tragically, a great
many healthy cats (and dogs) will be euthanized, so shelters look for
good homes but the requirements vis a vis indoor/outdoor will not be the
same.

MaryL

maybe it's a good idea to save a cat/dog from a shelter and then keep it
inside for the rest of it's life. I don't think so. At all. and if
everyone examined their cats life when they are kept inside.. should you
have one?
Feel free to scream at me.
I'm offering it for debate. A kindly debate.
Myself, I wouldn't have a cat if it couldn't go outside. Feel free to
differ. I won't mind.



Excluding Duffy.



















  #13  
Old September 7th 14, 11:43 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes
Christina Websell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,983
Default I went onto Facebook and found


"jmcquown" wrote in message
...
On 9/7/2014 5:54 PM, Christina Websell wrote:

maybe it's a good idea to save a cat/dog from a shelter and then keep it
inside for the rest of it's life. I don't think so. At all. and if
everyone examined their cats life when they are kept inside.. should you
have one?
Feel free to scream at me.
I'm offering it for debate. A kindly debate.
Myself, I wouldn't have a cat if it couldn't go outside. Feel free to
differ. I won't mind.

My opinion differs for two main reasons. (1) Someone had declawed Persia
so she really had no way to defend herself.


She was excused from the out then. but I guess she might have loved it.
and every time I hear about declawing and that the USA is the only place in
the world that allows it still.. I wonder why you are not all up in arms
about it and why your vets are not struck off for doing it.
My vet would not even think about if I asked him to declaw Boyfie. I'd be
off his list of clients immediately.


  #14  
Old September 7th 14, 11:58 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes
jmcquown[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,008
Default I went onto Facebook and found

On 9/7/2014 6:43 PM, Christina Websell wrote:
"jmcquown" wrote in message
...
On 9/7/2014 5:54 PM, Christina Websell wrote:

maybe it's a good idea to save a cat/dog from a shelter and then keep it
inside for the rest of it's life. I don't think so. At all. and if
everyone examined their cats life when they are kept inside.. should you
have one?
Feel free to scream at me.
I'm offering it for debate. A kindly debate.
Myself, I wouldn't have a cat if it couldn't go outside. Feel free to
differ. I won't mind.

My opinion differs for two main reasons. (1) Someone had declawed Persia
so she really had no way to defend herself.


She was excused from the out then. but I guess she might have loved it.
and every time I hear about declawing and that the USA is the only place in
the world that allows it still.. I wonder why you are not all up in arms
about it and why your vets are not struck off for doing it.
My vet would not even think about if I asked him to declaw Boyfie. I'd be
off his list of clients immediately.


I don't understand declawing, either. But Persia really did live an
idyllic indoor life.

Jill
  #15  
Old September 8th 14, 12:10 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes
MaryL[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,184
Default I went onto Facebook and found



"Christina Websell" wrote in message
...


"MaryL" wrote in message
...


"Christina Websell" wrote in message
...


"MaryL" wrote in message
...


"Christina Websell" wrote in message
...

Once again when a cat was found dead here from a heart attack someone
came
on from the USA and brought up the inside/outside debate again.
It wouldn't have made any difference, FGS.

I rarely enter into the inside/outside debate. It's safe here in the Uk
and
not in America and we must agree to disagree. I don't know of any cat
shelter here who would agree to home a cat into a indoor home.
so that's the difference between our countries and I suggest we leave it
at
that.
Please.

~~~~~~~
I understand (and accept) the point you are making, but I have often
wondered about metropolitan areas such as London. I do know that there
are at least *some* people in UK large cities who keep cats indoors. What
is the general practice in areas like that? I am not asking this to
start an argument. I genuinely wonder about statements that cat shelters
would not agree on an indoor home because the "predators" in that case
refers to traffic. Does your statement apply equally to rural and
metropolitan areas in the UK?

MaryL


No. but they are likely to refuse a home with a lot of traffic and
won't
let you adopt one. Which is sensible. I suppose. Not much traffic here
and huge gardens to lose themselves in.
I'd quite like to be that person who decides if the potential adopter is
good enough.

No-one assessed me for Kitty Farmcat. I wish they had refused.. No-one
assessed me for Boyfie. I think I've done well with both.

~~~~~~~~
That's another difference between the US and the UK. If I have understood
some of your messages correctly, you do no have an overabundance of cats
as we do. Many shelters here require their cats to be kept indoor if it
is an area with high traffic but probably not in rural areas or other
areas with low traffic volume. Tragically, a great many healthy cats (and
dogs) will be euthanized, so shelters look for good homes but the
requirements vis a vis indoor/outdoor will not be the same.

MaryL

maybe it's a good idea to save a cat/dog from a shelter and then keep it
inside for the rest of it's life. I don't think so. At all. and if
everyone examined their cats life when they are kept inside.. should you
have one?
Feel free to scream at me.
I'm offering it for debate. A kindly debate.
Myself, I wouldn't have a cat if it couldn't go outside. Feel free to
differ. I won't mind.

~~~~~~~
Well, I do differ with you on that. I truly believe that all of my cats
have been happy, and all have been indoor cats after I became an adult. All
of the cats I had when I was growing up were outdoor cats, and all of them
died at a young age when they were killed on the road.

I do absolutely agree with you about declawing. The only declawed cat I
have ever had was my wonderful Amber (RB), and she was declawed before I got
her. I consider declawing to be an abomination, and I have been successful
in convincing a number of people that they should not have that done.

MaryL













  #16  
Old September 8th 14, 12:35 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes
jmcquown[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,008
Default I went onto Facebook and found

On 9/7/2014 7:10 PM, MaryL wrote:


"Christina Websell" wrote in message
...
maybe it's a good idea to save a cat/dog from a shelter and then keep it
inside for the rest of it's life. I don't think so. At all. and if
everyone examined their cats life when they are kept inside.. should you
have one?
Feel free to scream at me.
I'm offering it for debate. A kindly debate.
Myself, I wouldn't have a cat if it couldn't go outside. Feel free to
differ. I won't mind.

~~~~~~~
Well, I do differ with you on that. I truly believe that all of my cats
have been happy, and all have been indoor cats after I became an adult.
All of the cats I had when I was growing up were outdoor cats, and all
of them died at a young age when they were killed on the road.

The apartment where I lived when Persia demanded I let her inside was on
a busy street corner. True, it was in the suburbs but people thought
nothing of driving down that street or around the corner at breakneck
speed. A woman who lived across the street from my apartment complex
had a lot of cats. They all went outside. A lot of them did not
survive. It is upsetting to me to see dead cats by the side of the road.

I do absolutely agree with you about declawing. The only declawed cat I
have ever had was my wonderful Amber (RB), and she was declawed before I
got her. I consider declawing to be an abomination, and I have been
successful in convincing a number of people that they should not have
that done.

MaryL

I agree about the declawing, too. I have no idea why people in the US
still put up with it or why vets still do it. Still, I wouldn't
hesitate to adopt a declawed cat because it wasn't the cat's choice and
they need homes, too. The cat would probably be as just as happy as my
sweet Persia was.

Where I live now there are more predators, including alligators, eagles
and some pretty darn big hawks. When/if I adopt another cat, claws or
not, the cat is staying inside.

I can still picture the young woman from Security trying to wrangle the
relatively small (5 foot?) alligator from my back yard with a noose on a
pole. It fought her like mad! A cat wouldn't stand a chance.
Alligators move a lot faster than most people think.

Jill
  #17  
Old September 8th 14, 01:23 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes
MaryL[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,184
Default I went onto Facebook and found



"jmcquown" wrote in message ...

On 9/7/2014 7:10 PM, MaryL wrote:


"Christina Websell" wrote in message
...
maybe it's a good idea to save a cat/dog from a shelter and then keep it
inside for the rest of it's life. I don't think so. At all. and if
everyone examined their cats life when they are kept inside.. should you
have one?
Feel free to scream at me.
I'm offering it for debate. A kindly debate.
Myself, I wouldn't have a cat if it couldn't go outside. Feel free to
differ. I won't mind.

~~~~~~~
Well, I do differ with you on that. I truly believe that all of my cats
have been happy, and all have been indoor cats after I became an adult.
All of the cats I had when I was growing up were outdoor cats, and all
of them died at a young age when they were killed on the road.

The apartment where I lived when Persia demanded I let her inside was on
a busy street corner. True, it was in the suburbs but people thought
nothing of driving down that street or around the corner at breakneck
speed. A woman who lived across the street from my apartment complex
had a lot of cats. They all went outside. A lot of them did not
survive. It is upsetting to me to see dead cats by the side of the road.

I do absolutely agree with you about declawing. The only declawed cat I
have ever had was my wonderful Amber (RB), and she was declawed before I
got her. I consider declawing to be an abomination, and I have been
successful in convincing a number of people that they should not have
that done.

MaryL

I agree about the declawing, too. I have no idea why people in the US
still put up with it or why vets still do it. Still, I wouldn't
hesitate to adopt a declawed cat because it wasn't the cat's choice and
they need homes, too. The cat would probably be as just as happy as my
sweet Persia was.

Where I live now there are more predators, including alligators, eagles
and some pretty darn big hawks. When/if I adopt another cat, claws or
not, the cat is staying inside.

I can still picture the young woman from Security trying to wrangle the
relatively small (5 foot?) alligator from my back yard with a noose on a
pole. It fought her like mad! A cat wouldn't stand a chance.
Alligators move a lot faster than most people think.

Jill

~~~~~~~
I know what you mean about alligators moving fast, even on land. I took a
boat tour through the Okefenokee Swamp years ago (and it was beautiful). It
was only our family and a guide. The guide pointed to an alligator resting
on the bank. Suddenly, it took off--quickly! That was the first time I
knew they could move that fast.

MaryL

  #18  
Old September 8th 14, 02:29 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes
jmcquown[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,008
Default I went onto Facebook and found

On 9/7/2014 8:23 PM, MaryL wrote:


"jmcquown" wrote in message ...

Where I live now there are more predators, including alligators, eagles
and some pretty darn big hawks. When/if I adopt another cat, claws or
not, the cat is staying inside.

I can still picture the young woman from Security trying to wrangle the
relatively small (5 foot?) alligator from my back yard with a noose on a
pole. It fought her like mad! A cat wouldn't stand a chance.
Alligators move a lot faster than most people think.

Jill

~~~~~~~
I know what you mean about alligators moving fast, even on land. I took
a boat tour through the Okefenokee Swamp years ago (and it was
beautiful). It was only our family and a guide. The guide pointed to
an alligator resting on the bank. Suddenly, it took off--quickly! That
was the first time I knew they could move that fast.

MaryL


Yep, alligators do move fast. This one was in my back yard and I don't
care to speculate why it had wandered so far away from one of the ponds.
They generally do like to stay near the water. Some of the ponds are
stocked with fish.

I felt so sorry for the youngish (25 or so) Security guard they sent
over to snare it. Was it trial by fire? She said to me, "I've never
done this before." Honest to god, I figured Security would call a
wildlife expert, a critter catcher, whatever you want to call it. She
did a good job. But she had to drag it (fighting the whole time)
between my house and my neighbors house, down my driveway, across the
street and behind another house. Until she got to a pond. Then turn it
loose. I'm sure it was majorly ticked off by then. She was a brave
young woman! (They often hire military veterans as Security guards.
It's not like there's a heck of a lot of crime in a gated community.)

Some of you may remember I used to fret about cat-sitting for my
neighbor. She wanted Fedders (RB) and Schwartzie to go outside all day
after breakfast.

I had a problem with that, but it wasn't a philosophical indoor/outdoor
debate. She wanted Schwartzie to go outside. Most of the time I
couldn't coax him. He was purrfectly comfortable just snoozing on
her bed. I wasn't about to try to pick him up and force him to go
outside. Sometimes he did, sometimes he didn't.

Fedders was totally different. Breakfast! Practically yanking the FF
can out of my hand. He ate quick, then wanted out. Then I had trouble
getting him to come back inside at night.

When it got dark I'd sit and fret. I'd go over and call and call to
him; nope. Well, I couldn't sit and worry about him all night. I had
to get home to Persia. So L said, "Oh, just let him stay out. He'll
find a spot." I'm sorry, but I was never very comfortable when her cat
wanted to stay out all night.

Of course this is just my opinion... but when she sent something out on
the island listserv asking if anyone had seen her little black cat? I
knew it wouldn't end well. Yes, he eventually made his way home after
being missing for two or three days. The vet's best guess, he'd had a
seizure; probably more than one. She told me she knew it was his time
when it became obvious he was completely disoriented, suddenly blind and
possibly deaf.

I can't say the outcome would have been any different had he been in the
house with her when he had the seizure. But she'd have known something
was wrong immediately. He wouldn't have been lost for days. I know she
was glad he made his way home somehow, but IMHO it's another reason to
keep your cats inside.

Jill
  #19  
Old September 8th 14, 04:27 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes
Matt Ferrari[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 23
Default I went onto Facebook and found


"Christina Websell" wrote in message
...
Once again when a cat was found dead here from a heart attack someone came
on from the USA and brought up the inside/outside debate again.
It wouldn't have made any difference, FGS.

I rarely enter into the inside/outside debate. It's safe here in the Uk
and not in America and we must agree to disagree. I don't know of any
cat shelter here who would agree to home a cat into a indoor home.
so that's the difference between our countries and I suggest we leave it
at that.
Please.



Goofy is indoor outdoor but has restrictions on the amount of time. Most of
the time hes not allowed out after 10 pm
He loves being able to go outside. hes had a couple of bad gashes from
fights over 14 years but he does pretty well and seems
to know not to go on the street by my house.


  #20  
Old September 8th 14, 10:36 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes
Jack Campin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 675
Default I went onto Facebook and found

Yep, alligators do move fast. This one was in my back yard and I don't
care to speculate why it had wandered so far away from one of the ponds.
They generally do like to stay near the water. Some of the ponds are
stocked with fish.

I felt so sorry for the youngish (25 or so) Security guard they sent
over to snare it. Was it trial by fire? She said to me, "I've never
done this before." Honest to god, I figured Security would call a
wildlife expert, a critter catcher, whatever you want to call it. She
did a good job. But she had to drag it (fighting the whole time)
between my house and my neighbors house, down my driveway, across the
street and behind another house. Until she got to a pond. Then turn it
loose. I'm sure it was majorly ticked off by then. She was a brave
young woman! (They often hire military veterans as Security guards.
It's not like there's a heck of a lot of crime in a gated community.)


A gated community infested with alligators sounds like something
out of a J.G. Ballard novel (he specialized in middle-class utopias
turning into nightmares; recommended if you haven't tried his stuff
before).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
e m a i l : j a c k @ c a m p i n . m e . u k
Jack Campin, 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU, Scotland
mobile 07800 739 557 http://www.campin.me.uk Twitter: JackCampin
 




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