Other alternatives to Hills prescription s/d?

"PawsForThought" wrote in message
...
Mary wrote:

"buglady" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Steve Crane" wrote in message
oups.com...
Show
us the scientific proof that corn has any deleterious effects on cats.

.......cats are obligate carnivores. Period.

buglady
take out the dog before replying


So then why are there so many fruits and vegetables
in Wellness if that is the food of choice, according to
Megan ?

I don't think Wellness has a high number of fruits and veggies per se.
Cats in their natural diet would get a small amount of fruits and
veggies in their prey's stomachs. They can add nutritional value and
fiber to the diet.


Lauren,

Phil mentioned several fruits and vegetables that are in Wellness that
surprised me. I did not mean to say that a large percentage of
the product is made up of fruit and vegetables, only that there
are certainly several kinds in it. If the fact that cats are obligate
carnivores means that "corn has a deleterious effect on cats,"
which is what buglady responded, then why are there ANY in
Wellness?

"Mary" wrote in message
news:1110666398.47277608d1bda159df2f642531f6ac45@t eranews...



Phil mentioned several fruits and vegetables that are in Wellness that
surprised me. I did not mean to say that a large percentage of
the product is made up of fruit and vegetables, only that there
are certainly several kinds in it.

10 of the first 15 ingredients are plant material. Sweet potatoes are
listed 5th - after chicken broth which is 90% water and makes the actual
chicken weight of the the broth effectively much, much less than 5th - and
consequently moves all the subsequent plant products higher up on the
ingredients list. The biological value of potatoes is even lower than corn.

Ingredients are listed predominately by weight. Thus although the first
three ingredients are meat products, the *combined weight* of *all* 10 plant
products:

5. Sweet Potatoes
6. Carrots,
7. Vegetable Gums,
8. Flaxseed,
10. Alfalfa,
11. Cranberries,
12. Blueberries,
13. Yellow Squash,
14. Yellow Zucchini,
15. Garlic,

could easily exceed the weight of the third, or second, or even the first
ingredient. Given the numerous plant products (10 of the first 15
ingredients) its very difficult - if not impossible - to know with certainty
whether the diet actually contains more meat than plant material without
seeing the actual formula - which no pet food company will make public.


If the fact that cats are obligate
carnivores

"Obligate carnivore" is often a misused term. "Obligate carnivore" means
the cat must obtain certain nutrients from animal sources - not that the cat
must eat only meat.


means that "corn has a deleterious effect on cats,"
which is what buglady responded, then why are there ANY in
Wellness?

Because all those 'human grade' veggies look good on the label and create
anthropomorphic appeal. For example, carrots and beta carotene; cats can't
convert beta carotene into vitamin A and must obtain preformed vitamin A.
But carrots and beta carotene sure look on the label and advertising...
Further down the ingredient list, vitamin A is listed as a supplement...
So, IMO, carrots are included for anthropomorphic appeal.

The biological value of potatoes is even lower than corn - but 'sweet
potatoes' sure look good on the label, too.

I feed my cats Wellness as part of their rotating diet because I find the
*nutrient levels* favorable - not because I fell for their 'human grade
ingredients' or 'all natural' advertising gimmicks.

What do people think they're getting for 10 cents more a can - prime rib?
LOL!

Phil

"PawsForThought" wrote in message
...
Mary wrote:
"PawsForThought" wrote in message
...
Mary wrote:

"buglady" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Steve Crane" wrote in message
oups.com...
Show
us the scientific proof that corn has any deleterious effects on
cats.

.......cats are obligate carnivores. Period.

buglady
take out the dog before replying


So then why are there so many fruits and vegetables
in Wellness if that is the food of choice, according to
Megan ?

I don't think Wellness has a high number of fruits and veggies per se.
Cats in their natural diet would get a small amount of fruits and
veggies in their prey's stomachs. They can add nutritional value and
fiber to the diet.


Lauren,

Phil mentioned several fruits and vegetables that are in Wellness that
surprised me. I did not mean to say that a large percentage of
the product is made up of fruit and vegetables, only that there
are certainly several kinds in it. If the fact that cats are obligate
carnivores means that "corn has a deleterious effect on cats,"
which is what buglady responded, then why are there ANY in
Wellness?

Some veggies, squash for instance, provides a cat with good gut
bacteria because it is a fermentable fiber in cats. There was one
particular study in the late 1990's that concluded fermentable fibre
plays an important role in feline digestive health. When good bacteria
in the cat's gut eat something, it is actually "fermenting" it. So
squash is actually food for the good gut bacteria to eat. The good
gut bacteria turns the fermentable fiber into vitamins for the cat's
system to absorb. It also changes the PH of the gut to help in
preventing acids that bad bacteria feeds off of. Cats can get their
vitamins from fiber that is fermentable by a cat's gut, as cats don't
digest veggies the way we do.

Now this is new and useful information. I know you feed a raw diet.
How do you incorporate fermentable fiber in your cats' diets?


With all this being said, AFAIK, corn is not a fermentable fiber in
cats, and therefore is not a veggie appropriate for them. Many
petfoods have things like cellulose, citrius pulp, soy hulls, wheat
fiber, and psyllium, for example, added to the food that is not
fermentable by cats. It's merely added as a filler as they don't have
a benefit to cats, and through research it has been shown that they can
actually do harm (IBD for example).

--

I see. So fiber is not good unless it is fermentable, I wonder?

"-L." wrote in message
oups.com...

Cheryl wrote:
snip

I really don't give a ****. You're proving nothing and
you're not hurting me in the least.


She must be in heat again. She's humping everyone's posts again.
Either that or she forgot her meds.

-L.

That's it. I am in heat. You so smart. But no meds, Lynnie. I
am high on life. If I were a fat under-educated socialist married
to a pick-up driving loser I met online, now that might call for
Xanax.

"Phil P." wrote in message
nk.net...

"Mary" wrote in message
news:1110666398.47277608d1bda159df2f642531f6ac45@t eranews...



Phil mentioned several fruits and vegetables that are in Wellness that
surprised me. I did not mean to say that a large percentage of
the product is made up of fruit and vegetables, only that there
are certainly several kinds in it.

10 of the first 15 ingredients are plant material. Sweet potatoes are
listed 5th - after chicken broth which is 90% water and makes the actual
chicken weight of the the broth effectively much, much less than 5th - and
consequently moves all the subsequent plant products higher up on the
ingredients list. The biological value of potatoes is even lower than
corn.

Ingredients are listed predominately by weight. Thus although the first
three ingredients are meat products, the *combined weight* of *all* 10
plant
products:

5. Sweet Potatoes
6. Carrots,
7. Vegetable Gums,
8. Flaxseed,
10. Alfalfa,
11. Cranberries,
12. Blueberries,
13. Yellow Squash,
14. Yellow Zucchini,
15. Garlic,

could easily exceed the weight of the third, or second, or even the first
ingredient. Given the numerous plant products (10 of the first 15
ingredients) its very difficult - if not impossible - to know with
certainty
whether the diet actually contains more meat than plant material without
seeing the actual formula - which no pet food company will make public.


If the fact that cats are obligate
carnivores

"Obligate carnivore" is often a misused term. "Obligate carnivore" means
the cat must obtain certain nutrients from animal sources - not that the
cat
must eat only meat.


means that "corn has a deleterious effect on cats,"
which is what buglady responded, then why are there ANY in
Wellness?

Because all those 'human grade' veggies look good on the label and create
anthropomorphic appeal. For example, carrots and beta carotene; cats
can't
convert beta carotene into vitamin A and must obtain preformed vitamin A.
But carrots and beta carotene sure look on the label and advertising...
Further down the ingredient list, vitamin A is listed as a supplement...
So, IMO, carrots are included for anthropomorphic appeal.

The biological value of potatoes is even lower than corn - but 'sweet
potatoes' sure look good on the label, too.

I feed my cats Wellness as part of their rotating diet because I find the
*nutrient levels* favorable - not because I fell for their 'human grade
ingredients' or 'all natural' advertising gimmicks.

What do people think they're getting for 10 cents more a can - prime rib?
LOL!


Thanks, Phil. I take it then that Wellness is no better than any other
cat food that lists "meat" and not "meat byproducts" as the first
ingredient, then? Is that your assessment? And if this is true, and
one's cat will not eat Hill's prescription s/d, then IF it were safe
one might use ANY such cat food that has meat as a first ingredient
and dose the cat with urine acidifier? Only I believe you wrote that
what Megan recommended is NOT safe. Correct?

wrote in message
...
wrote:
So then why are there so many fruits and
vegetables in Wellness

You have something to back up that claim?

See Phil's post below, asshat.

wrote:
See Phil's post
It doesn't back up anything. I didn't see any info posted that showed
ingredient percentages and speculation just doesn't cut it.

Megan



"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."

-Edmund Burke

Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
http://www.stopdeclaw.com

Zuzu's Cats Photo Album:
http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22

"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one
elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and
splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then
providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision,
raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and
material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his
way."

- W.H. Murray

wrote:
Only I believe you wrote that what
Megan recommended is NOT safe.

What I recommended was a program that was ok'd by a real veterinarian,
and it has worked for years with no deleterious effects. Apparently you
aren't smart enough to take into consideration the fact that Methioform
tablets require a prescription and therefore this approach must be ok'd
by a veterinarian. Others have posted that they have done the same with
good results yet I don't see a peep out of you about that, which is
further proof that the welfare of cats aren't your concern.

Megan



"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."

-Edmund Burke

Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
http://www.stopdeclaw.com

Zuzu's Cats Photo Album:
http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22

"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one
elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and
splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then
providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision,
raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and
material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his
way."

- W.H. Murray

wrote in message
...
wrote:
See Phil's post
It doesn't back up anything. I didn't see any info posted that showed
ingredient percentages and speculation just doesn't cut it.

Megan



So you don't KNOW the percentages? If not, then
your recommendation is based upon .... now put
on your thinking cap ... ready? ......
Speculation. Which as you say, does not
cut it. Just another example of your not
knowing what the hell you're talking about.

wrote in message
...
wrote:
Only I believe you wrote that what
Megan recommended is NOT safe.

What I recommended was a program that was ok'd by a real veterinarian,
and it has worked for years with no deleterious effects. Apparently you
aren't smart enough to take into consideration the fact that Methioform
tablets require a prescription and therefore this approach must be ok'd
by a veterinarian.


It was okayed by YOUR vet for YOUR cat. Furthermore I do not
believe that Wellness supplemented by methioform is the only
alternative to Hill's Prescription s.d.