Wellness Cat Food

Translation of above = Like usual PawsForThought can never show my
facts to be in error. As a consequence she does her usual and reverts
to personal attacks. It's key indicator when someone has lost the
argument and cannot debate the facts and the issues and therefore
reverts to personal attacks.

I have never hidden my employment in any way shape or form. I have
spent over 20 years teaching veterinarians and thier staff members
small animal clinical nutrition - based on sound science and factual
data. I have well in excess of 2,000 plus hours of continuing education
and spend all day, every working day, immersed in small animal clinical
nutrition. I work with a number of DVM PhD's who are board certified
diplomates every single working day. I'm happy to debate the facts, but
personal attacks the likes of the above serve no practical purpose -
unless you've lost the debate and have no choice but to react with
personal attacks.


Time for the legalese I suppose.
While I have been an employee of Hill's for over 20 years, ANY thing I
say here is my opinion, and my opinion alone, and should not be
construed to represent the company I work for.

Kelly,
Grains contribute carbohydrates which are a source of quick energy.
Wellness has done a great job of simply switching from one carbohydrate
source - grains - to others like Squash & Sweet Potatoes in the chicken
based food I think you are talking about. There's nothing wrong with
either choice. In the end the net carbs in the diet are not entirely
dis-similar. The Wellness food contains 15-19% carbs derived from
different kinds of carb sources. It really doesn't make any difference.
You might want to ask Wellness what the calcium and phosphorus levels
are in this food. It should be interesting to see.

Steve Crane lied again when he wrote:
The Wellness food contains 15-19%
carbs derived from different kinds of carb
sources.

You should be fired. Really. The depths you sink to to try to undermine
a good food are astounding and OMH should sue you and Hill's. First, you
intentionally mislead about carb content by not specifying what type of
food you are talking about, and post high carb numbers when the food
being discussed is canned which is not high in carbs. Then you lie by
omission when you conveniently ignore the fact that most Wellness canned
foods are lower in carbs than the majority of premium food available,
and certainly lower than the crap food called Science Diet, including
their prescription canned diet that is supposed to be for diabetic cats.
I've posted the carb content before based on as fed numbers used to
calculate on a dry matter basis:
http://community-2.webtv.net/getcathelp/carbs/

You're, as usual, FOS.

Megan



"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."

-Edmund Burke

Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
http://www.stopdeclaw.com

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raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and
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- W.H. Murray

From: "Steve Crane"


I have never hidden my employment in any way shape or form.

Liar

I have
spent over 20 years teaching veterinarians and thier staff members
small animal clinical nutrition -

Wait, I thought Hill's didn't teach nutrition. Mmm........

While I have been an employee of Hill's for over 20 years, ANY thing I
say here is my opinion, and my opinion alone, and should not be
construed to represent the company I work for.

More bull****
________
See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecatjournal.com/articles/claws.htm

Megan,
I have no idea where you are getting your "carb" numbers. They
certainly do not coincide with the values provided by OMH upon request.
Neither do they add up doing the "down and dirty" addition of adding
the moisture, protein, fat, fiber and ash percentages. I suspect it
would be useful if OMH was willing to post actual values on thier web
site, which they seem reticent to do. It would be nice if they had the
rectitude to post calcium, phosphorus, sodium, and other nutrient
levels which they seem reticent to do.
The values you have listed appear to be "as fed" values which are
not dry matter basis values. If this is your intention to list "as fed"
values, then you should be comparing "as fed" to "as fed" on your
website - which you do not do. Both the Purina and Hill's products are
listed on a DMB (dry matter basis) basis, while you list the Wellness
products on an "as fed' basis. If you convert the "as fed" values you
have listed to dry matter basis values - the numbers begin to make
sense. Take the chicken version for example. You give a value of 4.2% -
remove the moisture (78%) and the dry matter basis carbohydrate
percentage is 19%. (4.2 divided by the reciprocal of the moisture level
(78-100=22) equals 19%.)
The value you quote for Prescription Diet m/d is dry matter basis
carb content. You cannot compare "as fed" to dry matter basis -
especially in canned foods where the moisture content is so very high.
I would suggest it would be prudent to fix the calculation on your web
site so they are accurate rather than misleading the people who view
it. On an "as fed" basis Prescription Diet m/d contains only 3.9%
carbs.
I'll grant you the benefit of the doubt that this was an honest
mistake. If you fix your website we'll know it was indeed an honest
mistake and not purposeful deception. If not, then we'll know that as
well.

Monique,
Unfortunately I have to agree with you. At least in regards to the
ability to trust any pet food manufacturer from a pet owner and
consumer point of view. You are right that it is far more complicated
than most consumers are either willing to - or able to spend the time
to understand.
I'll give you one more paltry fact that will probably further annoy
you. Under the current laws - How often does a manufacturer actually
have to put the ingredients listed on the can or bag label in the food
that is in the can or bag? In other words, if the label reads lamb,
chicken, oats, barley, squash....... How often does a manufacturer
actually have to put those exact ingredients in the bag or can labeled
to contain them?

The answer - only once every 180 days. While the protein, fat, fiber,
ash, moisture levels must be right on each and every can or bag, the
actual ingredients used to manufacture the food need only be correct
once every 180 days.

I would love to see that one changed.

Ahem - perhaps you forgot - your claim was that Hill's taught to the
veterinary students and that all vets were taught nutrition by Hill's
employees - that was your claim remember? My activity has always been
confined to clinical practitioners in clinics and vet hospitals. I have
never taught veterinary students.

As for your usual name calling when you've lost another dreary argument
- perhaps you would like to prove the claim - show me a post I ever
made where I claimed I was anything else. Lying seems to be your forte
- should we resurrect the long list of claims you made about Science
Diet - that long list that Phil researched and brought forth of all
your claims contradicting what you yourself wrote?

Thanks very much for proving my point once again - you're great at
name calling but never have any facts to back up your statements. My
"purpose" here is to provide a small counterbalance to the egregious
errors and totally false claims that appear with regularity. Besides
that it's very entertaining to watch the squirm factor when people
driven by emotional judgments have to try to find facts and hard data
to back up nonsensical claims.

From: "equalizer

I for the most part simply point out to
people who are new that Steve Crane works for Hill's when he recommends
their food, that's about it.

Well, you also like to egg on Lauren when she is in the middle of one of her
Hil's Hating rants!

Good to see you do in fact own a cat. Strange you never post anything
about him/her. You can see that most of the rest of us on here talk
about ours every chance we get. Hey -- how about posting some pictures
and a little info? You might not look quite so much like a Hill's
troll/sock puppet if you do! It might even end up being a good marketing
angle, so what've you got to lose!


I have limited time to spend gaining information (and providing my input) in
forums such as these. I simply don't take the time to upload pictures and post
them. Not to mention that I haven't taken the time to learn how to do that
using AOL's newgroups features. I'm sure it's quite simple. I don't have a
webpage either. I'd much rather spend my free time with my wife and 4 1/2 yr
old boy!!

Happy Holidays to you as well (and your cat)

from Eq, Floppy, Daisy, Robocat, and Ivan

...and to you and yours!

From: "Monique Y. Mudama"

With all due respect, Kelly, that's just it....you "feel" good about it.
Ingredient labels are listed by WEIGHT, not by whether or not it is the
"primary" ingredient. And yes, *some* by-products are just "as good". You
can't paint with such a broad brush!

Could you please explain what the difference is between weight and being
"primary"? Do you mean by volume? Surface area? Importance of nutrients?

Some people think that pet food labels are regulated the same way that "human"
food labels in the grocery store are. The first ingredient on a pet food
ingredient list is the ingredient that WEIGHS the most. That doesn't
neccessarily mean that there is "more" of that ingredient in that particular
food than the next ingredient listed.