kitten not amenable to any rules

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 14:42:23 -0400, MadHatter
wrote:

Shaina is now able to get to pretty much any place in the apartment.
We don't want her on the kitchen table, but no matter what i do, she
just doesn't care. She is especially stubborn when she wants to eat,
so i don't give her wet food when she demands it after i remove her
from the table. she can very well eat her dry food, which she likes.
I remove her from the table and don't play with her, so that i don't
reinforce her bad behavior by doing something she enjoys. I tell her
"NO" in a stern voice. now, i started to spray her with water when
she does that. she jumps off. i know i don't put enough time into
training her, but even what i do consistently, doesn't work.
She can be very cuddly and sweet, will sit quietly on our bed and let
me pet her and she will purr. then she would leave and sleep on a
small couch in the bedroom. she is not very much into sleeping in our
bed, for some reason. perhaps because we move around at night and she
doesn't want to be bothered. but she bites when she plays. she never
extends her claws and she doesn't scratch, but she bites pretty hard.
i stop playing with her and either remove her from the bed, or from
the room and scold her. i hiss at her, but she is totally unimpressed
by hissing. she hisses sometimes at me when i trim her claws, or when
is play-hunting.

please help!

-L
It takes TIME -- lots of time -- just like with kids. She will
improve as she grows up if you keep at it. MLB

I'm sorry, & am going to be of virtually no help here, but when I read the
subject, I just laughed. Cats tend not to be amenable to rules, much less
kittens! ;-)

Some cats will sleep w/ you all night, some won't. And they sometimes
change their patterns through the years. Many grow out of the kitten biting
stage, & no longer bite as adults.

Cathy

"MadHatter" wrote in message
...
Shaina is now able to get to pretty much any place in the apartment.
We don't want her on the kitchen table, but no matter what i do, she
just doesn't care. She is especially stubborn when she wants to eat,
so i don't give her wet food when she demands it after i remove her
from the table. she can very well eat her dry food, which she likes.
I remove her from the table and don't play with her, so that i don't
reinforce her bad behavior by doing something she enjoys. I tell her
"NO" in a stern voice. now, i started to spray her with water when
she does that. she jumps off. i know i don't put enough time into
training her, but even what i do consistently, doesn't work.
She can be very cuddly and sweet, will sit quietly on our bed and let
me pet her and she will purr. then she would leave and sleep on a
small couch in the bedroom. she is not very much into sleeping in our
bed, for some reason. perhaps because we move around at night and she
doesn't want to be bothered. but she bites when she plays. she never
extends her claws and she doesn't scratch, but she bites pretty hard.
i stop playing with her and either remove her from the bed, or from
the room and scold her. i hiss at her, but she is totally unimpressed
by hissing. she hisses sometimes at me when i trim her claws, or when
is play-hunting.

please help!

-L

I'm sorry, & am going to be of virtually no help here, but when I read the
subject, I just laughed. Cats tend not to be amenable to rules, much less
kittens! ;-)

Some cats will sleep w/ you all night, some won't. And they sometimes
change their patterns through the years. Many grow out of the kitten biting
stage, & no longer bite as adults.

Cathy

"MadHatter" wrote in message
...
Shaina is now able to get to pretty much any place in the apartment.
We don't want her on the kitchen table, but no matter what i do, she
just doesn't care. She is especially stubborn when she wants to eat,
so i don't give her wet food when she demands it after i remove her
from the table. she can very well eat her dry food, which she likes.
I remove her from the table and don't play with her, so that i don't
reinforce her bad behavior by doing something she enjoys. I tell her
"NO" in a stern voice. now, i started to spray her with water when
she does that. she jumps off. i know i don't put enough time into
training her, but even what i do consistently, doesn't work.
She can be very cuddly and sweet, will sit quietly on our bed and let
me pet her and she will purr. then she would leave and sleep on a
small couch in the bedroom. she is not very much into sleeping in our
bed, for some reason. perhaps because we move around at night and she
doesn't want to be bothered. but she bites when she plays. she never
extends her claws and she doesn't scratch, but she bites pretty hard.
i stop playing with her and either remove her from the bed, or from
the room and scold her. i hiss at her, but she is totally unimpressed
by hissing. she hisses sometimes at me when i trim her claws, or when
is play-hunting.

please help!

-L

We have the same rule and we started training very early with Mr. Bonkers.
Everytime he jumped on the table there would be a quick no and he would be
deposited back on the floor. If he persisted, we would banish him to the
screened in porch (he loves the squirty bottle). Well......it turns out he
loves the screened in porch too. Now he jumps on the table and then
immediately runs to the door. I wonder who trained whom. Any ideas on how to
untrain a cat?

"MadHatter" wrote in message
...
Shaina is now able to get to pretty much any place in the apartment.
We don't want her on the kitchen table, but no matter what i do, she
just doesn't care. She is especially stubborn when she wants to eat,
so i don't give her wet food when she demands it after i remove her
from the table. she can very well eat her dry food, which she likes.
I remove her from the table and don't play with her, so that i don't
reinforce her bad behavior by doing something she enjoys. I tell her
"NO" in a stern voice. now, i started to spray her with water when
she does that. she jumps off. i know i don't put enough time into
training her, but even what i do consistently, doesn't work.
She can be very cuddly and sweet, will sit quietly on our bed and let
me pet her and she will purr. then she would leave and sleep on a
small couch in the bedroom. she is not very much into sleeping in our
bed, for some reason. perhaps because we move around at night and she
doesn't want to be bothered. but she bites when she plays. she never
extends her claws and she doesn't scratch, but she bites pretty hard.
i stop playing with her and either remove her from the bed, or from
the room and scold her. i hiss at her, but she is totally unimpressed
by hissing. she hisses sometimes at me when i trim her claws, or when
is play-hunting.

please help!

-L

We have the same rule and we started training very early with Mr. Bonkers.
Everytime he jumped on the table there would be a quick no and he would be
deposited back on the floor. If he persisted, we would banish him to the
screened in porch (he loves the squirty bottle). Well......it turns out he
loves the screened in porch too. Now he jumps on the table and then
immediately runs to the door. I wonder who trained whom. Any ideas on how to
untrain a cat?

"MadHatter" wrote in message
...
Shaina is now able to get to pretty much any place in the apartment.
We don't want her on the kitchen table, but no matter what i do, she
just doesn't care. She is especially stubborn when she wants to eat,
so i don't give her wet food when she demands it after i remove her
from the table. she can very well eat her dry food, which she likes.
I remove her from the table and don't play with her, so that i don't
reinforce her bad behavior by doing something she enjoys. I tell her
"NO" in a stern voice. now, i started to spray her with water when
she does that. she jumps off. i know i don't put enough time into
training her, but even what i do consistently, doesn't work.
She can be very cuddly and sweet, will sit quietly on our bed and let
me pet her and she will purr. then she would leave and sleep on a
small couch in the bedroom. she is not very much into sleeping in our
bed, for some reason. perhaps because we move around at night and she
doesn't want to be bothered. but she bites when she plays. she never
extends her claws and she doesn't scratch, but she bites pretty hard.
i stop playing with her and either remove her from the bed, or from
the room and scold her. i hiss at her, but she is totally unimpressed
by hissing. she hisses sometimes at me when i trim her claws, or when
is play-hunting.

please help!

-L

In article ,
enlightened us with...
Shaina is now able to get to pretty much any place in the apartment.

How old is she?
Does she have any other cats to play with?

We don't want her on the kitchen table, but no matter what i do, she
just doesn't care.

The question is - why does she want on it? If there's nothing in it for
her, she won't go up there. Think like a cat. WHEN does she go up there?

For example...If she only goes up there when you're sitting there
eating, for the next 7 days, put her in the other room (door closed)
each time you sit down to eat. After that, any time she jumps up there
when you're eating, immediately put her in the other room (door closed)
and don't let her out until you're done eating. It may take time, but
she'll get it. No need to yell or make a fuss. She doesn't want to be
locked up in one room while you are in another. That's motivation
enough. In the rare instance it isn't, you get peace and don't have to
worry about it.

but she bites when she plays. she never
extends her claws and she doesn't scratch, but she bites pretty hard.

How can she bite you unless you have your hands by her mouth when you're
playing? Cats bite when they play with each other. That's normal. She
needs to play with objects (stuffed toys, balls, long dangling things
often called 'cat teasers', etc) or other cats, not your hands. If she
should start something while you're petting her (NOT playing), make a
hurt noise (squeal, OW, or whatever) and put her down immediately and
ignore her for a little while, as another cat might do (they're good at
acting offended). Bear in mind that some cats don't like to be pet for
long. Watch her body language and stop before she gets ****y. Ears start
to go back, tail flips around. They always warn you, we just don't
always notice the warning. *heh*

Living beings don't tend to do things that have no benefit at all unless
it's just habit. Habits can be broken. The rest, you need to find out
what the benefit is and provide a better one with a different behavior
or remove the benefit from the current one *in every single instance*.
A toddler who gets a toy to shut him up every 5th time he throws a
tantrum in a store will throw one every time hoping for the toy. Cats
aren't all that different. Just furrier. *grins*
Nothing increases a behavior more than variable reinforcement. Nothing.
Think about it. It's the basis of gambling addiction.

HTH

--
--
~kaeli~
User: The word computer professionals use when they mean
'idiot'.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace

In article ,
enlightened us with...
Shaina is now able to get to pretty much any place in the apartment.

How old is she?
Does she have any other cats to play with?

We don't want her on the kitchen table, but no matter what i do, she
just doesn't care.

The question is - why does she want on it? If there's nothing in it for
her, she won't go up there. Think like a cat. WHEN does she go up there?

For example...If she only goes up there when you're sitting there
eating, for the next 7 days, put her in the other room (door closed)
each time you sit down to eat. After that, any time she jumps up there
when you're eating, immediately put her in the other room (door closed)
and don't let her out until you're done eating. It may take time, but
she'll get it. No need to yell or make a fuss. She doesn't want to be
locked up in one room while you are in another. That's motivation
enough. In the rare instance it isn't, you get peace and don't have to
worry about it.

but she bites when she plays. she never
extends her claws and she doesn't scratch, but she bites pretty hard.

How can she bite you unless you have your hands by her mouth when you're
playing? Cats bite when they play with each other. That's normal. She
needs to play with objects (stuffed toys, balls, long dangling things
often called 'cat teasers', etc) or other cats, not your hands. If she
should start something while you're petting her (NOT playing), make a
hurt noise (squeal, OW, or whatever) and put her down immediately and
ignore her for a little while, as another cat might do (they're good at
acting offended). Bear in mind that some cats don't like to be pet for
long. Watch her body language and stop before she gets ****y. Ears start
to go back, tail flips around. They always warn you, we just don't
always notice the warning. *heh*

Living beings don't tend to do things that have no benefit at all unless
it's just habit. Habits can be broken. The rest, you need to find out
what the benefit is and provide a better one with a different behavior
or remove the benefit from the current one *in every single instance*.
A toddler who gets a toy to shut him up every 5th time he throws a
tantrum in a store will throw one every time hoping for the toy. Cats
aren't all that different. Just furrier. *grins*
Nothing increases a behavior more than variable reinforcement. Nothing.
Think about it. It's the basis of gambling addiction.

HTH

--
--
~kaeli~
User: The word computer professionals use when they mean
'idiot'.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 14:42:23 -0400, MadHatter
wrote:

Shaina is now able to get to pretty much any place in the apartment.
We don't want her on the kitchen table, but no matter what i do, she
just doesn't care. She is especially stubborn when she wants to eat,
so i don't give her wet food when she demands it after i remove her
from the table. she can very well eat her dry food, which she likes.
I remove her from the table and don't play with her, so that i don't
reinforce her bad behavior by doing something she enjoys. I tell her
"NO" in a stern voice. now, i started to spray her with water when
she does that. she jumps off. i know i don't put enough time into
training her, but even what i do consistently, doesn't work.
She can be very cuddly and sweet, will sit quietly on our bed and let
me pet her and she will purr. then she would leave and sleep on a
small couch in the bedroom. she is not very much into sleeping in our
bed, for some reason. perhaps because we move around at night and she
doesn't want to be bothered. but she bites when she plays. she never
extends her claws and she doesn't scratch, but she bites pretty hard.
i stop playing with her and either remove her from the bed, or from
the room and scold her. i hiss at her, but she is totally unimpressed
by hissing. she hisses sometimes at me when i trim her claws, or when
is play-hunting.

please help!

-L

There is a learning period for kitties. They don't learn after 1 time.
I am going thru much the same with Lancelot right now - he jumbs on
the counters and stove when I am cooking. This week he did learn the
word off --- so though he jumps up he does get off when I tell him
"Lancelot off"

Were still working on no. But I am sure that will come. I havent'
squirted him because he seems not to mind it and he is very playful
also so I don't want him to think it's a game.

Today he came out of the pantry (where they are not allowed) when I
called him to come and he got a treat and some petting for being a
good kitten. I have to say he is a bit spoiled and has gotten by with
things longer than the other 3 because I have had to work while he is
a baby. My being home during my daughters tonsil surgery has been
helpful at helping him learn some rules. Lets hope he remembers
them....lol

Karryl

Karryl

http://www.i-love-cats.com/meow/soft63389/index.htm

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 14:42:23 -0400, MadHatter
wrote:

Shaina is now able to get to pretty much any place in the apartment.
We don't want her on the kitchen table, but no matter what i do, she
just doesn't care. She is especially stubborn when she wants to eat,
so i don't give her wet food when she demands it after i remove her
from the table. she can very well eat her dry food, which she likes.
I remove her from the table and don't play with her, so that i don't
reinforce her bad behavior by doing something she enjoys. I tell her
"NO" in a stern voice. now, i started to spray her with water when
she does that. she jumps off. i know i don't put enough time into
training her, but even what i do consistently, doesn't work.
She can be very cuddly and sweet, will sit quietly on our bed and let
me pet her and she will purr. then she would leave and sleep on a
small couch in the bedroom. she is not very much into sleeping in our
bed, for some reason. perhaps because we move around at night and she
doesn't want to be bothered. but she bites when she plays. she never
extends her claws and she doesn't scratch, but she bites pretty hard.
i stop playing with her and either remove her from the bed, or from
the room and scold her. i hiss at her, but she is totally unimpressed
by hissing. she hisses sometimes at me when i trim her claws, or when
is play-hunting.

please help!

-L

There is a learning period for kitties. They don't learn after 1 time.
I am going thru much the same with Lancelot right now - he jumbs on
the counters and stove when I am cooking. This week he did learn the
word off --- so though he jumps up he does get off when I tell him
"Lancelot off"

Were still working on no. But I am sure that will come. I havent'
squirted him because he seems not to mind it and he is very playful
also so I don't want him to think it's a game.

Today he came out of the pantry (where they are not allowed) when I
called him to come and he got a treat and some petting for being a
good kitten. I have to say he is a bit spoiled and has gotten by with
things longer than the other 3 because I have had to work while he is
a baby. My being home during my daughters tonsil surgery has been
helpful at helping him learn some rules. Lets hope he remembers
them....lol

Karryl

Karryl

http://www.i-love-cats.com/meow/soft63389/index.htm

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 15:11:15 -0400, "Cathy Friedmann"
wrote:

I'm sorry, & am going to be of virtually no help here, but when I read the
subject, I just laughed. Cats tend not to be amenable to rules, much less
kittens! ;-)

Some cats will sleep w/ you all night, some won't. And they sometimes
change their patterns through the years. Many grow out of the kitten biting
stage, & no longer bite as adults.

Cathy

This is true - with cats you really have to pick a few most important
rules and not think they will obey like dogs. Which by the way dogs I
found listen better than children and cats listen even less than
children.

Cats don't really seem to care about rules but I found the 3 rescue
cats Lucifer, Catfive and Miss Thang will usually follow a few like
keeping off the stove and attached counter. They walk on the table and
the end tables but have learned to stay off the coffee table. I
decided I can live with that. They also know the pantry is off limits
but they can go any where else in the house. I am hoping Lancelot will
learn the same - I also must say non of them scratch my leather
furniture I got last year so what more could I ask for? Everyone uses
the litter box - I am a happy cat owner.

Karryl
http://www.i-love-cats.com/meow/soft63389/index.htm