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#441
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"Steve G" wrote in message oups.com... Mary wrote: (...) "BrandY" does not have me killfiled that I know of. OK. One loses track. So many killfiles, so few deaths. Meanwhile, why do you think "Brandy" argues that cats ought to be left unsupervised outside when she keeps her own inside? I'm loath to speak for anyone, but could it be she thinks that cats should have outdoor access when it's safe to allow them this? And she lives somewhere where she thinks it is not safe to allow 'em out? No, asshole, it is because she DECLAWED her cat when the director of her porn films complained that she had scratches. Brandy killfiled me rather than discuss that. lol |
#442
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"Mary" wrote in message
... "Steve G" wrote in message oups.com... Mary wrote: (...) When you accused me of backpedaling, I was not wrong. We're not so green we're cabbage-looking. Well, I wasn't. When your good buddy Lynnie the Socialist (*choke*) Netcop detailed her eye disease here in the cat group I said "Wow. So it isn't always nice people that terrible things happen to." When Mary L. accused me of being happy about Lynnie's macular degeneration I merely pointed out that that is not what I said. Because it wasn't what I said. You called that backpedaling. As usual, you are full of ****. (There you go, Catnipped! I did that just for you. This is typical Steve sniping. He can't hold his own in a fair argument, so this is what he does. I rarely call him on it, but since you called Ashley on the same fatuous bull****, I thought hey, why not.) Um, thank you? ; You go girl! LOL!! Hugs, CatNipped |
#443
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"ceb" wrote in message ... "Steve G" wrote in oups.com: Not sure if raccoons are much of a risk to cats anyway? One of my friends came into her kitchen one day to find one of her cats sitting next to a raccoon who had come in through the cat door. They were just sitting there. I believe the raccoon had already eaten all the cat food by that time. Of course, a rabid raccoon could be more of a problem. You must be kidding! Raccoons are fierce fighters and they don't have to be rabid. If a cat broke bad with a raccoon or tried to defend its food the raccoon would kill the cat. |
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kaeli wrote in
: In article , enlightened us with... I didn't mean to imply that we shouldn't CARE about cats as we care about children, I meant that comparisons between cats and humans based on each one's capacity for autonomy are not helpful. I love Rosalie as a family member, too. But she is better at protecting herself than my friend's 3 year old daughter is. I don't think it's true that she is "equivalent" to a toddler -- that's the comparison that isn't helpful, IMO. I don't feel they are equivalent 100%. Far from it. I do think that one can make comparisons between things that aren't 100% the same, though. Heck, some mentally disabled adults aren't as good at protecting themselves as some toddlers, but that doesn't mean we don't compare them. Compare and contrast is the hallmark of humanity. Or english class. One of the two. Yes, but it is then not accurate to draw conclusions based on uneven comparisons. The point was that neither a toddler nor a cat (or a dog, etc) can make an informed decision based on something someone tells them. They simply can't comprehend it and process it. I cannot teach a child about red/green lights until they are old enough to "get it". Therefore it is my job to see that they don't wander into traffic. Same for my pets. Same for a mentally disabled adult in my care. Do all those beings have the same intelligence level? Of course not! They are similar, not the same. That is a good point. Their reasoning skills might be equivalent. However, most cats have really strong survival instincts that can help them outdoors. Rosalie never goes near the road -- I surmise because she is afraid of loud noises, and cars are loud. She tries to stay away from the loud and the unknown. Can a cat learn to avoid cars? Sure!! But can they learn to be extra careful and watch for the light even when they're scared and running from something, or distracted and chasing a pretty little butterfly? I doubt it. And I can't explain to them what might happen. I can't explain an abstract concept like "the possibility of death" to a cat or a baby. True. I have lived in places where my cat couldn't go out at all -- I'm not trying to convince you that you should let your cat out. I'm just giving my reasons and trying to explain that one can love their pets as family members and yet have a differing view on this subject. Oh, I didn't mean to make it sound like I was disagreeing with you on the whole "I love my cat but I let it out" thing. I'm sure most people who let their cats out (especially the ones who post here) love their cats and the cats pretty much stay in their own yards/gardens. In fact, it seems to me a lot of the people who let them out do so *because* they love them and think that it's what is best. I don't see too many who say they let the cat out because they don't care what happens to it! (at least not here on this group) Thank you. I was feeling that some posters were saying that to let the cats out means that one doesn't love them, or love them enough, or love them as much as those who keep their cats in. That was primarily what caused me to jump into the thread. I don't let MY cats out because where I live is not safe. And I don't believe in letting cats roam [1] where I live because it isn't safe (and in so populous an area, it's just plain rude, too). I know nothing about where you live. Only you can say how safe your place is, how safe your cats are, where they are allowed to go, etc. [1] Note that I am usually careful to use the word 'roam' -- I have no problems with letting your cats wander about your own property if you live in an area with no predators to harm them. I have a problem with people who let their cats roam, which implies that the cat is all over the neighborhood, in other people's yards, getting into things that aren't yours, etc. I like the roamers, myself -- I love to see cats around the neighborhood and I even like the cheeky ones that come up on my deck. I love meeting cats that will come up and say hi when I'm out walking, and there's really nothing cuter than a cat saying hello to my dog Zoe (Zoe is exceedingly respectful of cats, and they seem to sense this). But neither of my girls tend/ed to roam very far themselves, and both of them are/were wary of strangers, so all anyone would have to do would be to approach them to get them to run home. -- Catherine & Rosalie the calico |
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"kaeli" wrote in message ... (tho' I thought Ashley said she lived in a rural area with few cars...was I mistaken?) No, I live in a city - but my property was chosen not least because it minimises the risk of the cats going anywhere near the road - and they don't, they wait for me at the bottom of the driveway when I go up to collect the morning paper. They sit there, watching the traffic from the distance, listening to the noise, then greet me when I come back to them, and either come inside with me, or take off into the bush to play. My house, and the one I lived in before, is down a *very* long driveway (there are two other properties between me and the road) and my land consists almost entirely of native bush, which the cats love and spend almost all their outdoor time in, guarding the boundaries to keep neighbour cats away (I can sit on my balcony and watch them sitting there, my cats on one side of the boundary, neighbours' cats on the other, in an uneasy truce that lasts until one of them takes one step too far ... then the intruder gets batted, retreats to the right side of the invisible line, and it's all OK again) or climbing the trees for the sheer pleasure of it. One of my cats is a natural climber. The first thing he does on any property is spot the most likely tree to climb - then climb it and sit there watching the world until he's bored, then backs down again. One of the points the indoors-only brigade keep misrepresenting is cats' propensity to roam. Yes, they can roam a couple of miles, and some do. Those some are unneutered toms looking for a mate. Neutered pets, who know their territory is where the food is, and who encounter neighbouring cats (or dogs) when they step over boundary lines "roam" in a much-diminished area, one that can frequently be measured in square metres, rather than kilometres. |
#446
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kaeli wrote: (...) You are _such_ a ****head sometimes. Me mam said that on occasion of my birth. Rectal delivery, y'see. S. |
#447
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Mary wrote: (...) It really is, as Sherry said, like shooting fish in a barrel. And now we have Steve G. and ceb swimming around in there. Enough fish for everyone! When shooting fish... ....point harpoon *away* from forehead. S. |
#448
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On Mon 04 Apr 2005 04:16:25a, -L. wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav roups.com): wrote: Oh what the hell. I'm starting to think B0b Brenchly has gotten into his wife's dresses again. LOL!! Whatever happened to ol' Bob-o? -L. I don't miss him. I was just thinking while skimming over this thread how cute it is to see all the newbies engaging in the age- old cat ng indoor/outdoor debate. Awwwwww yawn They'd have had a field day with him. -- Cheryl "The clever cat eats cheese and breathes down rat holes with baited breath." - W.C. Fields |
#449
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"ceb" wrote in message ... kaeli wrote in : In article , enlightened us with... I didn't mean to imply that we shouldn't CARE about cats as we care about children, I meant that comparisons between cats and humans based on each one's capacity for autonomy are not helpful. I love Rosalie as a family member, too. But she is better at protecting herself than my friend's 3 year old daughter is. I don't think it's true that she is "equivalent" to a toddler -- that's the comparison that isn't helpful, IMO. I don't feel they are equivalent 100%. Far from it. I do think that one can make comparisons between things that aren't 100% the same, though. Heck, some mentally disabled adults aren't as good at protecting themselves as some toddlers, but that doesn't mean we don't compare them. Compare and contrast is the hallmark of humanity. Or english class. One of the two. Yes, but it is then not accurate to draw conclusions based on uneven comparisons. The point was that neither a toddler nor a cat (or a dog, etc) can make an informed decision based on something someone tells them. They simply can't comprehend it and process it. I cannot teach a child about red/green lights until they are old enough to "get it". Therefore it is my job to see that they don't wander into traffic. Same for my pets. Same for a mentally disabled adult in my care. Do all those beings have the same intelligence level? Of course not! They are similar, not the same. That is a good point. Their reasoning skills might be equivalent. However, most cats have really strong survival instincts that can help them outdoors. Rosalie never goes near the road -- I surmise because she is afraid of loud noises, and cars are loud. She tries to stay away from the loud and the unknown. Can a cat learn to avoid cars? Sure!! But can they learn to be extra careful and watch for the light even when they're scared and running from something, or distracted and chasing a pretty little butterfly? I doubt it. And I can't explain to them what might happen. I can't explain an abstract concept like "the possibility of death" to a cat or a baby. True. I have lived in places where my cat couldn't go out at all -- I'm not trying to convince you that you should let your cat out. I'm just giving my reasons and trying to explain that one can love their pets as family members and yet have a differing view on this subject. Oh, I didn't mean to make it sound like I was disagreeing with you on the whole "I love my cat but I let it out" thing. I'm sure most people who let their cats out (especially the ones who post here) love their cats and the cats pretty much stay in their own yards/gardens. In fact, it seems to me a lot of the people who let them out do so *because* they love them and think that it's what is best. I don't see too many who say they let the cat out because they don't care what happens to it! (at least not here on this group) Thank you. I was feeling that some posters were saying that to let the cats out means that one doesn't love them, or love them enough, or love them as much as those who keep their cats in. That was primarily what caused me to jump into the thread. I don't let MY cats out because where I live is not safe. And I don't believe in letting cats roam [1] where I live because it isn't safe (and in so populous an area, it's just plain rude, too). I know nothing about where you live. Only you can say how safe your place is, how safe your cats are, where they are allowed to go, etc. [1] Note that I am usually careful to use the word 'roam' -- I have no problems with letting your cats wander about your own property if you live in an area with no predators to harm them. I have a problem with people who let their cats roam, which implies that the cat is all over the neighborhood, in other people's yards, getting into things that aren't yours, etc. I like the roamers, myself -- I love to see cats around the neighborhood and I even like the cheeky ones that come up on my deck. I love meeting cats that will come up and say hi when I'm out walking, and there's really nothing cuter than a cat saying hello to my dog Zoe (Zoe is exceedingly respectful of cats, and they seem to sense this). But neither of my girls tend/ed to roam very far themselves, and both of them are/were wary of strangers, so all anyone would have to do would be to approach them to get them to run home. You appear to live in Richmond, Virginia, is that right? |
#450
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"Ashley" wrote in message ... "kaeli" wrote in message ... (tho' I thought Ashley said she lived in a rural area with few cars...was I mistaken?) No, I live in a city - but my property was chosen not least because it minimises the risk of the cats going anywhere near the road - and they don't, they wait for me at the bottom of the driveway when I go up to collect the morning paper. They sit there, watching the traffic from the distance, listening to the noise, then greet me when I come back to them, and either come inside with me, or take off into the bush to play. My house, and the one I lived in before, is down a *very* long driveway (there are two other properties between me and the road) and my land consists almost entirely of native bush, which the cats love and spend almost all their outdoor time in, guarding the boundaries to keep neighbour cats away (I can sit on my balcony and watch them sitting there, my cats on one side of the boundary, neighbours' cats on the other, in an uneasy truce that lasts until one of them takes one step too far ... then the intruder gets batted, retreats to the right side of the invisible line, and it's all OK again) or climbing the trees for the sheer pleasure of it. One of my cats is a natural climber. The first thing he does on any property is spot the most likely tree to climb - then climb it and sit there watching the world until he's bored, then backs down again. One of the points the indoors-only brigade keep misrepresenting is cats' propensity to roam. Yes, they can roam a couple of miles, and some do. Those some are unneutered toms looking for a mate. Neutered pets, who know their territory is where the food is, and who encounter neighbouring cats (or dogs) when they step over boundary lines "roam" in a much-diminished area, one that can frequently be measured in square metres, rather than kilometres. This is utter bull****. My strong ideas against allowing cats to roam unsupervised is a direct result of my parents being exactly the way Ashley is. We "always had cats," just not for very long because even though they were neutered and well fed, my parents insisted on letting them out when they wanted to go. We lived in lovely quiet suburbs and old city neighborhoods, long driveways, lots of shrubbery and yard, trees, all that good stuff that cats love. The cats disappeared altogether, certainly poisoned, stolen, or killed, showed up under bushes with their bellies ripped out by dogs, or where they had dragged themselves after being hit by cars. They certainly roamed far enough to encounter things that hurt them. |
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