Need Opinions (Long)

Howard Berkowitz wrote:

I've wondered about the techniques used. The one time I saw it done
by a veterinary cardiologist, he put a cuff around Clifford's tail
and
measured the systolic.


Oh no! I sure hope that's not the only way to measure a cat's BP.
Vino doesn't have a tail and although he doesn't need to have it
measured right now, it might come up in the future. I'd hate to think
that tail-less cats are at a disadvantage here!
--
Britta
Sandpaper kisses, a cuddle and a purr. I have an alarm clock that's
covered in fur!
Check out pictures of Vino at:
http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album

badwilson wrote:
Howard Berkowitz wrote:

I've wondered about the techniques used. The one time I saw it done
by a veterinary cardiologist, he put a cuff around Clifford's tail
and
measured the systolic.


Oh no! I sure hope that's not the only way to measure a cat's BP.
Vino doesn't have a tail and although he doesn't need to have it
measured right now, it might come up in the future. I'd hate to
think
that tail-less cats are at a disadvantage here!
--
Britta

FWIW, I have only done it on the front leg/paw.

-L.

badwilson wrote:
Howard Berkowitz wrote:

I've wondered about the techniques used. The one time I saw it done
by a veterinary cardiologist, he put a cuff around Clifford's tail
and
measured the systolic.


Oh no! I sure hope that's not the only way to measure a cat's BP.
Vino doesn't have a tail and although he doesn't need to have it
measured right now, it might come up in the future. I'd hate to
think
that tail-less cats are at a disadvantage here!
--


Nah. I didn't see them do it so I don't know how, but they got a blood
pressure reading from my tailless Mikey, so it can be done.

------
Krista

"CatNipped" wrote in message
...
"Christina Websell" wrote in message
...
Very quick top-posted reply because it's past my bedtime.
Nüle is a doctor with 6 years medical training who now chooses to
practice
homeopathic medicine.
She is not a vet, but she knows how to interpret blood tests

{...}

She usually responds to medical questions reasonably
quickly, so I'll post as soon as she replies. Okay?

Tweed

Thanks!

Hugs,

CatNipped



Here is Nüle's reply:
....

I am indeed no vet and I don't even know what the
English abbreviation BUN stands for, but just the
fact that the cat was at the upper end of the
normal range with both values when the first test
was made, and is now slightly above what's
considered to be normal, would not let me panick
right now. There may just be differences on
different days. Creatinine is a fine indicator
for the kidney's work, and should be checked
again in a couple of month's time. If there are
any kidney problems, creatinine will rise long
before any symptoms appear. It is clear that in
old age the organs will not work as well as they
did when the person was young. The "normal" range
of blood values here is defined from blood
samples of soldiers - young men, aged 20, more or
less healthy...

I would trust the vet if he told me these are normal values for an elderly
cat.

Nüle

.....

Hope this helps.
Tweed

In article , "fuga"
wrote:

I just don't know how to interpret the trends in cats. Hydration is
important. Diet certainly seems a consideration in cats. In humans,
there's an increasing tendency to prescribe ACE inhibitors, which are
principally drugs for high blood pressure but do protect the kidneys.
It
is much easier to pill humans.

There's a drug called Fortekor that has been used in the UK for a number
of
years to protect the kidneys that is also now being prescripted by
Doctors
in Canada (not sure about the us) which is an ACE inhibitor.

I would think that the ideal ACE inhibitor preparation for cats would be
a long-acting injection. Unfortunately, most human ACE inhibitors are
twice-daily tablets.

In article , "badwilson"
wrote:

Howard Berkowitz wrote:

I've wondered about the techniques used. The one time I saw it done
by a veterinary cardiologist, he put a cuff around Clifford's tail
and
measured the systolic.


Oh no! I sure hope that's not the only way to measure a cat's BP.
Vino doesn't have a tail and although he doesn't need to have it
measured right now, it might come up in the future. I'd hate to think
that tail-less cats are at a disadvantage here!

As I mentioned, it seemed a rather crude technique, especially since he
had an ultrasound unit there.

In article , "Christina Websell"
wrote:

"CatNipped" wrote in message
...
"Christina Websell" wrote in
message
...
Very quick top-posted reply because it's past my bedtime.
Nüle is a doctor with 6 years medical training who now chooses to
practice
homeopathic medicine.
She is not a vet, but she knows how to interpret blood tests

{...}

She usually responds to medical questions reasonably
quickly, so I'll post as soon as she replies. Okay?

Tweed

Thanks!

Hugs,

CatNipped



Here is Nüle's reply:
...

I am indeed no vet and I don't even know what the
English abbreviation BUN stands for,

Blood urea nitrogen. It's more a "background" measurement, where
creatinine, and espeecially the calculated or invasively measured
creatinine clearance rate, gives a more current indication of actual
renal function.


?but just the
fact that the cat was at the upper end of the
normal range with both values when the first test
was made, and is now slightly above what's
considered to be normal, would not let me panick
right now. There may just be differences on
different days. Creatinine is a fine indicator
for the kidney's work, and should be checked
again in a couple of month's time. If there are
any kidney problems, creatinine will rise long
before any symptoms appear. It is clear that in
old age the organs will not work as well as they
did when the person was young. The "normal" range
of blood values here is defined from blood
samples of soldiers - young men, aged 20, more or
less healthy...

I would trust the vet if he told me these are normal values for an
elderly
cat.

Nüle

....

Hope this helps.
Tweed

"Howard Berkowitz" wrote in message
...
In article , "Christina Websell"
wrote:

big ole snippo


Here is Nüle's reply:
...

I am indeed no vet and I don't even know what the
English abbreviation BUN stands for,

Blood urea nitrogen. It's more a "background" measurement, where
creatinine, and espeecially the calculated or invasively measured
creatinine clearance rate, gives a more current indication of actual
renal function.


Thanks, Howard. I'll tell her, she'll like to know. Sometimes the language
difference can cause difficulties, especially with technical and specialist
terms.

Tweed

In article , "Christina Websell"
wrote:

"Howard Berkowitz" wrote in message
...
In article , "Christina Websell"
wrote:

big ole snippo


Here is Nüle's reply:
...

I am indeed no vet and I don't even know what the
English abbreviation BUN stands for,

Blood urea nitrogen. It's more a "background" measurement, where
creatinine, and espeecially the calculated or invasively measured
creatinine clearance rate, gives a more current indication of actual
renal function.


Thanks, Howard. I'll tell her, she'll like to know. Sometimes the
language
difference can cause difficulties, especially with technical and
specialist
terms.

Just in case it would help the context, an earlier test was nonprotein
nitrogen (NPR). BUN is more specific. While it's rarely needed, there's
also a blood ammonia -- primcipally used when either there is suspicion
of, or to track, infection by ammonia-secreting bacteria.

Intentionally top posting, so as to not snip all the medical
information...

'Nipped, Natasha will be 18 in about 6 weeks, and was diagnosed CRF
about 18 months now. While once or twice a year her TED would do all
the tests, in the interim she just has tests for creatinine and BUN
done. Since we've been monitoring them, Tasha's values for those have
maintained slightly out-of-spec high while everything else has been
within the proper range. TED says that at Tasha's age nothing works as
well as it used to, and that those values are just what's now "normal"
for her and (paraphrasing now) that she (TED) isn't going to get too
excited about them as long as they continue about where they are.

One thing to keep an eye out for - Tasha needed a Dental badly (bad
teeth were the suspected source of an increase in the indicators of an
infection we were also seeing at that time), but the TED that was
seeing her for that didn't want to anesthisize her to do it because
her BUN (or was it creatinine? I don't recall which) was higher than
usual. I talked him into doing it anyway, and sure enough, after some
bad teeth were removed, the infection went away, the BUN went back to
"Natasha Normal", and Tasha was wondering what all the fuss was about.


purrs for your babies!

Jeanne Hedge, as directed by Natasha



On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 23:23:55 GMT, "CatNipped"
wrote:

My 14-year-old (will be 15 on April 8), Bandit, just went in for a dental
cleaning today. She had just had a geriatric exam on December 12 and her
creatinine and BUN have gone up since then (the vet said she is not
concentrating her urine as well as when she was younger). I'm worried that
these is (to me) a big jump in creatinine and BUN and that it is too high,
but the vet said these figures are normal for her age (and none of my cats
have ever been ill - Bandit is the oldest, so I know *NOTHING* about these
things).

To give anyone who is informed enough information, I'll post all her lab
results in case there are other things that need to be factored in, then ask
my question at the bottom of this post.

From December 12, 2004: (What | Bandit's Values | Normal Range)

AST (SGOT) | 27 | 10 - 100 IU/L
ALT (SGPT) | 57 | 10 - 100 IU/L
Total Bilirubin | 0.1 | 0.1 - 0.4 mg/dL
Alkaline Phosphatase | 39 | 6 - 102 IU/L
GGT | 1 | 1 - 10 IU/L
Total Protein | 8.3 | 5.2 - 8.8 g/dL
Albumin | 3.7 | 2.5 - 3.9 g/dL
Globulin | 4.6 | 2.3 - 53 g/dL
A/G Ratio | 0.8 | 0.35 - 1.5
Cholesterol | 270 HIGH | 75 - 220 mg/dL
BUN | 36 | 14 - 36 mg/dL
Creatinine | 1.9 | 0.6 - 2.4 mg/dL
Phosphorus | 5.1 | 2.4 - 8.2 mg/dL
Calcium | 10.3 | 8.2 - 10.8 mg/dL
Glucose | 10.3 | 8.2 - 10.8 mg/dL
Amylase | 1206 HIGH | 100 - 1200 IU/L
Lipase | 111 | 0 - 205 IU/L
Sodium | 159 HIGH | 145 - 158 ,Eq/L
Potassium | 4.8 | 3.4 - 5.6 mEq/L
na/K Ratio | 33 | 32 - 41
Chloride | 122 | 104 - 128 mEq/L
CPK | 109 | 56 - 529 IU/L
Triglyceride | 93 | 25 - 160 mg/dL
Osmolality, Calculated | 338 HIGH | 299 - 330 mOSm/kg
Magnesium | 1.7 | 1.5 - 2.5 mEq/L
WBC | 10 | 3.5 - 16.0 10^3/uL (that's not a "u", but my keyboard can't
recreate that character)
RBC | 9.1 | 5.92 - 9.93 ^6/uL (the "^" means to the power of)
HGB | 13.3 | 9.3 - 15.9 g/dL
HCT | 46 | 29 - 48%
MCV | 51 | 37 - 61 fL
MCH | 14.6 | 11 - 21 pg
MCHC | 29 LOW | 30 - 38%
Comment | RBC MORPHOLOGY NORMAL
Neutrophils | 51 | 35 - 75%
Absolute Neutrophils | 5100 | 2500 - 8500 /uL
Lymphocytes | 44 | 20 - 45%
Absolute Lymphocytes | 4400 | 1200 - 8000/uL
Monocytes | 1 | 1 - 4%
Absolute Monocytes | 100 | 0 - 600/uL
Eosinophils | 4 | 2 - 12 %
Absolute Eosinophils | 400 | 0 - 1000/uL
Basophils | 0 | 0 - 1%
Absolute Basophils | 0 | 0 - 150/uL
Platelate Estimate | Adequate
T4 (RIA) | 2.12 | 0.8 - 4.0 ug/dL
FeLV (ELISA) | Negative | Negative ANTIGEN
FIV (ELISA) | Negative | Negative ELISA
[Urine]
Color | Yellow
Appearance | Clear
Specific Gravity | 1.03 | 1.015 - 1.060
Ph | 6 | 5.5 - 7.0
Protein | Negative | Negative
Glucose-Strip | Negative | Negative
Ketones | Negative | Negative
Bilirubin | Negative | Negative
Occult Blood | Negative | Negative
WBC/HPF | None | 0 - 3
RBC/HPF | None | 0 - 3
Casts/LPF | None Observed | Hyaline 0 - 3
Crystals/HPF | None Observed
Squamous Eptihelia/HPF | None Observed | None - Few
Bacteria | None Observed | None Observed
Renal Epithelia/HPF | None Observed | None - Rare
Transitional Epithelia/HPF | None Observed | None - Rare

From today: (What | Bandit's Values | Normal Range)

ALKP | 45 | 14 - 111 U/L
ALT | 47 | 12 - 130 U/L
BUN | 36.9 HIGH | 16.0 - 36.0 mg/dL
Creatinine | 2.8 HIGH | 0.8 - 2.4 mg/dL
Glucose | 109 | 76 - 145 mg/dL
TP | 7.2 | 5.7 - 8.9 g/dL
[Hematology]
WBC | 6.76 | 5.50 - 19.50 K/uL
Lymphocytes | 2.73 | 0.40 - 6.80 K/uL
Monocytes | 0.54 | 0.15 - 1.70 K/uL
Neutrophils | 3.08 | 2.50 - 12.50 K/uL
Eosinophils | 0.37 | 0.10 - 0.79 K/uL
Basophils | 0.05 | 0.00 - 0.10 K/uL
% Lymphocytes | 40.3
% Monocytes | 7.9
% Neutrophils | 45.6
% Eosinophils | 5.5
% Basophils | 0.7
CHT | 32.5 | 30.0 - 45.0 %
RBC | 7.00 | 5.0 - 10.0 M/uL
HGB | 11.6 | 9.0 - 15.1 g/dL
RETIC 23.0 K/uL
% RETIC | 23.0 K/uL
MCV | 46.5 | 41.0 - 58.0 fL
RDW | 19.2 | 17.3 - 22.0 %
MCHC | 35.5 | 29.0 - 37.5 g/dL
MCH | 16.52 | 12.0 - 20.0 pg
PLT | 313 | 175 - 600 K/uL
MPV | 18.18 fL
PCT | 0.6%
PDW | 21.4%

OK, I need this tranlated into vet lab results for dummies 101 (Phil,
Kristi??). Seriously, I don't know from Adam, but it seems like that is a
pretty big jump in creatinine and BUN values in just a little over 2 months.
Am I wrong to be worried?

When Bandit got her results in December the vet told me to start her on SD
canned (she's had SD dry all her life and no problems before this). At the
same time I got a Drinkwell fountain for her to encourage her to drink.

Do you think she should be on a prescription diet?

BTW, her teeth and gums were fine, just needed a good cleaning since it's
been about 3 - 4 years since the last time she had it done.

Any advice or opinions are gratefully welcomed.

Hugs,

CatNipped