My Siamese Has IBD (Or So Was Told)

"Zaida" wrote in message
...
Laura - YOU HIT IT - I think you and someone else did, but his old vet
faxed me today (NO CONFIRMATION THOUGH because I never thought he'd get my
message) ... but there are 4 pages of reference materials he sent with the
heading "Ideopathic Vestibular Syndrome".

No way, man, Laura's just a Big Bad Twoll who never posts
nuthin' but flames. The "Professor" sed so.




---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.681 / Virus Database: 443 - Release Date: 5/10/2004

"Mary" wrote in message
om...

"Zaida" wrote in message
...
Laura - YOU HIT IT - I think you and someone else did, but his old vet
faxed me today (NO CONFIRMATION THOUGH because I never thought he'd get
my
message) ... but there are 4 pages of reference materials he sent with
the
heading "Ideopathic Vestibular Syndrome".

No way, man, Laura's just a Big Bad Twoll who never posts
nuthin' but flames. The "Professor" sed so.


I never said that, Mara. Why do you use the name Mary when you post?

"Mary" wrote in message
om...

"Zaida" wrote in message
...
Laura - YOU HIT IT - I think you and someone else did, but his old vet
faxed me today (NO CONFIRMATION THOUGH because I never thought he'd get
my
message) ... but there are 4 pages of reference materials he sent with
the
heading "Ideopathic Vestibular Syndrome".

No way, man, Laura's just a Big Bad Twoll who never posts
nuthin' but flames. The "Professor" sed so.


I never said that, Mara. Why do you use the name Mary when you post?

LOL ... Laura cool thumbs up


"Professor" wrote in message
...
"Mary" wrote in message
om...

"Zaida" wrote in message
...
Laura - YOU HIT IT - I think you and someone else did, but his old
vet
faxed me today (NO CONFIRMATION THOUGH because I never thought he'd
get
my
message) ... but there are 4 pages of reference materials he sent
with
the
heading "Ideopathic Vestibular Syndrome".

No way, man, Laura's just a Big Bad Twoll who never posts
nuthin' but flames. The "Professor" sed so.


I never said that, Mara. Why do you use the name Mary when you post?

LOL ... Laura cool thumbs up


"Professor" wrote in message
...
"Mary" wrote in message
om...

"Zaida" wrote in message
...
Laura - YOU HIT IT - I think you and someone else did, but his old
vet
faxed me today (NO CONFIRMATION THOUGH because I never thought he'd
get
my
message) ... but there are 4 pages of reference materials he sent
with
the
heading "Ideopathic Vestibular Syndrome".

No way, man, Laura's just a Big Bad Twoll who never posts
nuthin' but flames. The "Professor" sed so.


I never said that, Mara. Why do you use the name Mary when you post?

in article , Zaida at
wrote on 5/11/04 4:00 PM:

Laura - YOU HIT IT - I think you and someone else did, but his old vet
faxed me today (NO CONFIRMATION THOUGH because I never thought he'd get my
message) ... but there are 4 pages of reference materials he sent with the
heading "Ideopathic Vestibular Syndrome". He hasn't called to ask to see
Ming. I have yet to get copies of Ming's medical records, lab work, etc.
The receptionist of the current vet is not lukewarm to my request, saying I
need the vet's permission. Well, there's another vet I'm waiting to hear
from.

So I have a new dilemma now. If I receive 2 differing diagnosis from that
(IBD) which Ming has been given by his current vet, I know first thing to
have him checked, and certainly have his medications and diet revised or
changed accordingly. But what do I do with the vet? All told, Ming's
expenses (after the ear flush procedure) from lab, ultrasound and
hospitalization came up to $1500+. Can I recover all that and if so, how do
I go about it? I only want what's fair if I can't recover everything, at
least some to help defray future office visits and treatments for Ming.

I also think I ought to mention, since this new 2nd opinion came out, that
yesterday when I took Ming to his current vet for his follow-up (and by the
way, is it a normal occurrence to be charged for a *follow-up* for the same
illness?) she reprimanded me big time for "tweaking" with Ming's Prednisone.
She said Ming WILL DIE WITHOUT PREDNISONE. Prednisone is the ONLY thing
that's keeping him alive. She said to forget her initial order of
once-daily-then-every-other-day. She wants it bumped up to twice a day.
Knowing the long-term effects of this steroid, I asked her for how long.
She said probably forever. She further said this to me: "It's not up for
you to change his dosage, that's my job." And when I told her I was fearful
of the long-term effects of Prednisone, she said "I will tell you when,
where and what to give Ming and until then, you will do exactly as I say."
She further added that "I don't understand why you want your cat to die.
You've already spent thousands to treat him and if he deteriorates because
you don't follow my orders, your husband will get mad at you for even more
costly medical problems because of this."

Because I was thisclose to screaming at her, I said nothing though I've
been dying to mention about Ming's black stools and acrid, pungent, urine
smell worse than ammonia. Let's just say I left her office very upset.
There's another follow-up that Ming has this coming Monday. Oh I'm sure
though it's a "follow-up", I will be charged again. I will definitely
cancel because I now have to select between the 2 vets I'm pinning my hopes
on. I'm simply waiting for the other 2nd opinion to come in.

Thanks much for everything, everyone! You've all been such a great moral
support to me.


I think your vet sounds like they have terrible bedside manners. As far as
charging, all vets have different policies. Mine doesn't usually charge much
if anything for followups, my mothers does. I really don't know that pred
can be said to be keeping Ming alive. It's not a cure. It's an anti
inflamatory and may be keeping Ming more comfortable. I think you have to
wait on a final diagnosis before you have a way to think about getting some
fo your money back.

I hope Ming is still eating.

karen

in article , Zaida at
wrote on 5/11/04 4:00 PM:

Laura - YOU HIT IT - I think you and someone else did, but his old vet
faxed me today (NO CONFIRMATION THOUGH because I never thought he'd get my
message) ... but there are 4 pages of reference materials he sent with the
heading "Ideopathic Vestibular Syndrome". He hasn't called to ask to see
Ming. I have yet to get copies of Ming's medical records, lab work, etc.
The receptionist of the current vet is not lukewarm to my request, saying I
need the vet's permission. Well, there's another vet I'm waiting to hear
from.

So I have a new dilemma now. If I receive 2 differing diagnosis from that
(IBD) which Ming has been given by his current vet, I know first thing to
have him checked, and certainly have his medications and diet revised or
changed accordingly. But what do I do with the vet? All told, Ming's
expenses (after the ear flush procedure) from lab, ultrasound and
hospitalization came up to $1500+. Can I recover all that and if so, how do
I go about it? I only want what's fair if I can't recover everything, at
least some to help defray future office visits and treatments for Ming.

I also think I ought to mention, since this new 2nd opinion came out, that
yesterday when I took Ming to his current vet for his follow-up (and by the
way, is it a normal occurrence to be charged for a *follow-up* for the same
illness?) she reprimanded me big time for "tweaking" with Ming's Prednisone.
She said Ming WILL DIE WITHOUT PREDNISONE. Prednisone is the ONLY thing
that's keeping him alive. She said to forget her initial order of
once-daily-then-every-other-day. She wants it bumped up to twice a day.
Knowing the long-term effects of this steroid, I asked her for how long.
She said probably forever. She further said this to me: "It's not up for
you to change his dosage, that's my job." And when I told her I was fearful
of the long-term effects of Prednisone, she said "I will tell you when,
where and what to give Ming and until then, you will do exactly as I say."
She further added that "I don't understand why you want your cat to die.
You've already spent thousands to treat him and if he deteriorates because
you don't follow my orders, your husband will get mad at you for even more
costly medical problems because of this."

Because I was thisclose to screaming at her, I said nothing though I've
been dying to mention about Ming's black stools and acrid, pungent, urine
smell worse than ammonia. Let's just say I left her office very upset.
There's another follow-up that Ming has this coming Monday. Oh I'm sure
though it's a "follow-up", I will be charged again. I will definitely
cancel because I now have to select between the 2 vets I'm pinning my hopes
on. I'm simply waiting for the other 2nd opinion to come in.

Thanks much for everything, everyone! You've all been such a great moral
support to me.


I think your vet sounds like they have terrible bedside manners. As far as
charging, all vets have different policies. Mine doesn't usually charge much
if anything for followups, my mothers does. I really don't know that pred
can be said to be keeping Ming alive. It's not a cure. It's an anti
inflamatory and may be keeping Ming more comfortable. I think you have to
wait on a final diagnosis before you have a way to think about getting some
fo your money back.

I hope Ming is still eating.

karen

Then it's time to push for those records. It's ridiculous for you not
to be able to get a copy of them. I have never had a vet (or one of
their receptionists) hesitate to give me copies of my cats records
when I've asked for them, and I can't believe they're giving you the
runaround on this. Get pushy if you have to.


** I will. The receptionist did say she'll just give them to me on Ming's
next check-up. I'm hoping to hear from the other vet so I won't have to
bring him back Monday. I can't wait to get those records. Should I tell
the receptionist that I need them to take with me for a 2nd opinion? She
just said she'll hand them to me on my next visit.



Well, wait to see what the other vets say. While your vet may not
have diagnosed exactly what ends up being the cause of Ming's
problems, from what you've said, she has, at least, followed a pretty
typical path of diagnosis- she just seems to charge a helluva lot to
do it.


** The charges, I wouldn't have given any qualms if only the diagnosis fit
the bill. The problem is I know now that IBD is a condition; not a disease
in and of itself. And now that I've gotten a 2nd opinion that it's
Vestibular, what am I supposed to think but: how did Ming get it if she
didn't flush his ears in a manner that got him in this condition?


Well, as I said in another post, prednisone in low doses is an anti-
inflammatory, and in high doses is an immunosuppressive, so it's
pretty common for IBD (or cancer) cats to be put on high doses to
help suppress the immune system responses that are causing the
symptoms. So that doesn't sound strange to me. Also, for what it's
worth, Alex was on prednisone for the last two years of his life with
no ill effects.


** What is high, Laura? Ming is on 5 mg. Twice a day.



She further said this to me: "It's not up for
you to change his dosage, that's my job." And when I told her I was f
earful
of the long-term effects of Prednisone, she said "I will tell you
when,
where and what to give Ming and until then, you will do exactly as I
say."
She further added that "I don't understand why you want your cat to
die.
You've already spent thousands to treat him and if he deteriorates
because
you don't follow my orders, your husband will get mad at you for even
more
costly medical problems because of this."

Now, that kind of statement is just bizarre. I can't imagine any
veterinarian I've ever had talking to me in a fashion even remotely
resembling that.


** I stepped on her bright, shiny ego. :-T


My vets have all been extremely willing to discuss
any of my questions to my satisfaction. The fact that yours doesn't
seem to want to do so would actually be the chief reason I'd
recommend a different vet at this point. You're just having way too
many problems getting answers that she should be providing you
willingly.

** Because I've a feeling she doesn't want me questioning her judgment.
I'm not in the position to challenge her expertise. And I don't disagree.
I know that I know diddly-squat. She reacted only when I said that I
decided to give the prednisone to Ming at *only* once daily (since he's
already eating). I wanted to discuss her diagnosis, but she firmly said,
"Yes, he's got IBD; that's my diagnosis." But consider this: what stood
between Monday morning when he was perfectly fine and Monday afternoon when
I picked him up and was as sick as hell? The ear flush procedure! Try
convincing my husband that there's no correlation between the gastric
problem and the ear flushing. Before the procedure, he was eating as strong
as a horse. By the time we got him and now 3 weeks after, we were
considering euthanasia at one point. Imagine all of this. :-(

Then it's time to push for those records. It's ridiculous for you not
to be able to get a copy of them. I have never had a vet (or one of
their receptionists) hesitate to give me copies of my cats records
when I've asked for them, and I can't believe they're giving you the
runaround on this. Get pushy if you have to.


** I will. The receptionist did say she'll just give them to me on Ming's
next check-up. I'm hoping to hear from the other vet so I won't have to
bring him back Monday. I can't wait to get those records. Should I tell
the receptionist that I need them to take with me for a 2nd opinion? She
just said she'll hand them to me on my next visit.



Well, wait to see what the other vets say. While your vet may not
have diagnosed exactly what ends up being the cause of Ming's
problems, from what you've said, she has, at least, followed a pretty
typical path of diagnosis- she just seems to charge a helluva lot to
do it.


** The charges, I wouldn't have given any qualms if only the diagnosis fit
the bill. The problem is I know now that IBD is a condition; not a disease
in and of itself. And now that I've gotten a 2nd opinion that it's
Vestibular, what am I supposed to think but: how did Ming get it if she
didn't flush his ears in a manner that got him in this condition?


Well, as I said in another post, prednisone in low doses is an anti-
inflammatory, and in high doses is an immunosuppressive, so it's
pretty common for IBD (or cancer) cats to be put on high doses to
help suppress the immune system responses that are causing the
symptoms. So that doesn't sound strange to me. Also, for what it's
worth, Alex was on prednisone for the last two years of his life with
no ill effects.


** What is high, Laura? Ming is on 5 mg. Twice a day.



She further said this to me: "It's not up for
you to change his dosage, that's my job." And when I told her I was f
earful
of the long-term effects of Prednisone, she said "I will tell you
when,
where and what to give Ming and until then, you will do exactly as I
say."
She further added that "I don't understand why you want your cat to
die.
You've already spent thousands to treat him and if he deteriorates
because
you don't follow my orders, your husband will get mad at you for even
more
costly medical problems because of this."

Now, that kind of statement is just bizarre. I can't imagine any
veterinarian I've ever had talking to me in a fashion even remotely
resembling that.


** I stepped on her bright, shiny ego. :-T


My vets have all been extremely willing to discuss
any of my questions to my satisfaction. The fact that yours doesn't
seem to want to do so would actually be the chief reason I'd
recommend a different vet at this point. You're just having way too
many problems getting answers that she should be providing you
willingly.

** Because I've a feeling she doesn't want me questioning her judgment.
I'm not in the position to challenge her expertise. And I don't disagree.
I know that I know diddly-squat. She reacted only when I said that I
decided to give the prednisone to Ming at *only* once daily (since he's
already eating). I wanted to discuss her diagnosis, but she firmly said,
"Yes, he's got IBD; that's my diagnosis." But consider this: what stood
between Monday morning when he was perfectly fine and Monday afternoon when
I picked him up and was as sick as hell? The ear flush procedure! Try
convincing my husband that there's no correlation between the gastric
problem and the ear flushing. Before the procedure, he was eating as strong
as a horse. By the time we got him and now 3 weeks after, we were
considering euthanasia at one point. Imagine all of this. :-(

Hey there, Laura. Don't worry about it; I wrote pretty much the same
thing here already. I was just really feeling bummed and needed an
"e-shoulder" (sniffles) g ... and my saying that at the risk of ruining
your rep with the football ng. vbg


"Laura R." wrote in message
.. .
circa Tue, 11 May 2004 08:50:42 -0700, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav,
Zaida ) said,

Laura ... lol ... I did figure it out when I looked at the
"instruction"
after your name, plus I also did see this response. Anyway, I sent
out the
e-mail again last night. I hope it's in your inbox by now.

Unfortunately, the account to which that address forwarders has been
failing all day. Yeesh. Hopefully it'll come in tomorrow. :-)

Laura
--
I am Dyslexia of Borg,
Your ass will be laminated.