Phil P - what you recommend from Purina

wrote in message
oups.com...
Phil P. wrote:

Actually, you were quoting numbers from an outdated list- that's why I
corrected you. You said only two Fancy Feast diets contained 0.80%
phosphorus
or less. I said you were wrong and showed you about 10 diets that 0.81%
or
less. You insisted the Katkarma list was up to date even though
"Revised:
12-Oct-2003" was clearly printed at the bottom of the page. You also
said
"But Fancy Feast has not been updated probably because it's still the
same,"- which of course is not true-- as you found out after reading the
*current* Fancy Feast typical analyses on my site and receiving your own
copies from Purina.

That's about half true, not bad. I did make a mistake on 1/2 the site,
the other part was updated to 2005 but did not include Fancy Feast.


Bull****. Fancy Feast Diets are incorporated in the general list (with all
the other brands). The list was last Revised: 12-Oct-2003.
http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/canfood.htm There is no "other part"
of the list- other than the dry cat food section- which is also outdated (
Revised: 05-Nov-2003) http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/dryfood.htm



Actually, I think you got the product lines mixed up-- and probably
confused
the person at Purina with all the trivial and extraneous babble you
usually
include. FF Turkey & Giblets Feast contains 0.45% phos. "As Fed" or
2.04%
DMB. However, FF Turkey & Giblets Feast in the *Sliced* diet line
contains
0.23% phos. "As Fed" which *indeed* translates into 1.04% phosphorus
"DMB".
So, Purina was probably correct and you simply confused the product
lines.

This is silly and presumptuous on your part.


No, its a rational and prudent explanation for your blunder. Don't get too
depressed and defensive over it; many people don't realize Fancy Feast makes
different formulations of the same diets.


There were not any product
lines to mix up.

More bull****. Fancy Feast makes *three* lines of the Turkey & Giblets
diet: *Filet & Pate* Turkey & Giblets Feast, *Sliced* Turkey & Giblets
Feast, and Turkey & Giblets Feast. Based on my experience with Purina, I
think you probably transposed the numbers from one version to another or
forgot which product line you were referring to because you were babbling
incessantly trying to show them how much you know. LOL!

Phil P. wrote:
Bull****. Fancy Feast Diets are incorporated in the general list (with all
the other brands). The list was last Revised: 12-Oct-2003.
http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/canfood.htm There is no "other part"
of the list- other than the dry cat food section- which is also outdated (
Revised: 05-Nov-2003) http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/dryfood.htm

http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/dry.htm

This is the "other part" - try to comprehend. Look at it again, come
on, you can read.

DRY CAT FOOD
DRY MATTER ANALYSIS (Updated 3/28/05)
Numbers ordered by Phosphorus content for CRF cats
All Original Mfg were contacted, these responded, see Old Dry Food Page


More bull****. Fancy Feast makes *three* lines of the Turkey & Giblets
diet: *Filet & Pate* Turkey & Giblets Feast, *Sliced* Turkey & Giblets
Feast, and Turkey & Giblets Feast. Based on my experience with Purina, I
think you probably transposed the numbers from one version to another or
forgot which product line you were referring to because you were babbling
incessantly trying to show them how much you know. LOL!

You don't know because you were not there. They made mistakes. You make
mistakes. We all make mistakes. But to assume something as ignorant as
what you post above, concerning conversations with manufacturers and
their talking heads - is arrogance on your part. In this case your
arrogance supercedes your ignorance. Congratulations!

I gather your knowledge is limited to textbooks and what hands-on
experience you have?

You seem completely out of water when it comes to the scientific
literature. I'm surprised that you don't know more. If you do, post
something about weights and long-term research concerning felines. I'm
all ears, dude.

Any reference, preferably a longitudinal cohort followed for at least 5
years that is prospective in design.

If you don't know how to search Medline, that's okay, I'll do it later
and don't worry I won't post anything on a cat newsgroup dealing with
health and behavior. I mean, after all, what would the National Library
of Medicine have to do with health?
Anything. Let's see some real info for a change.

This is the "other part" - try to comprehend. Look at it again, come
on, you can read.

DRY CAT FOOD
DRY MATTER ANALYSIS (Updated 3/28/05)
Numbers ordered by Phosphorus content for CRF cats
All Original Mfg were contacted, these responded, see Old Dry Food Page

http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/dry.htm

There's the URL that's on the original page for the other part.

You probably missed it in your rush to diatribe.

More bull****. Fancy Feast makes *three* lines of the Turkey & Giblets
diet: *Filet & Pate* Turkey & Giblets Feast, *Sliced* Turkey & Giblets
Feast, and Turkey & Giblets Feast. Based on my experience with Purina,
I
think you probably transposed the numbers from one version to another
or
forgot which product line you were referring to because you were
babbling
incessantly trying to show them how much you know. LOL!

You're quite wrong here too. There were not any numbers to transpose.
So you are just plain wrong.

When they told me the numbers over the phone, I pointed out that was
logically impossible since the As Fed should be the Dry Matter Basis
divided by the percentage which is always 0.22 or 22% for all their
Fancy Feast.

Topaz wrote:
Honestly, I tried to be gentle, but you really are an idiot, all your
theories aside,

Try to be accurate. They are not my theories. I appreciate the accolade
but it's just not so. A scientist who did try to bring the theory to
the public was Roy Walford, a pathologist at UCLA. The original
research was presumably out of the vet research centers.

Do you have bipolar episodes that render you incapable of
comprehension?

if only because you get aggressive when you make a mistake instead of just
admitting it. We are all wrong at one time or another, "sixpack abs" and
"scientific" training notwithstanding. Learn to shut up and move on when

I never mentioned any scientific training. I think you and Phil P. are
just assuming that because I used logic. Sorry about that. I'll try not
to do that in the future.

you are wrong. It will make you look less aggressively stupid. Aside
from this topic you have had some good things to offer.

If you have trouble following an argument, then yes, people will look
stupid or idiotic to you. Is that why you change your screen name from
time to time? Start over with a clean slate and give those a time to
clue in. Interesting.

wrote:

I mean, after all, what would the National Library
of Medicine have to do with health?


The real question is, what's it got to do with *feline* health?

foamed in message
oups.com...
This is the "other part" - try to comprehend. Look at it again, come on,
you can read.


Um. "Treeline?" If you are going to K00k out like this every time someone
pokes you with a stick, there are
going to be a lot of people poking you with sticks. It may be wrong but it
is highly entertaining watching you foam at the mouth.

5cats wrote:
wrote:

I mean, after all, what would the National Library
of Medicine have to do with health?


The real question is, what's it got to do with *feline* health?

If you decide to use the National Library of Medicine, you would find
that feline studies are included. It's much better, as I alluded in
that deleted post, to use the original resources than the textbooks. A
text is not bad but it's never as thorough or as accurate as the real,
original sources. It's more like Cliff Notes.

FELINE!
Your search request has found 10,561 REFERENCES through Level 1.

So there are over 10,000 medical, scientific articles dealing with
felines in the National Library of Medicine's data base. I just did a
quick search using Feline! which is for truncation. So it would include
feline and felines, for example.

Since you are interested in the health of cats, you might want to use
this resource. It is available to the public as:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed

I find this a good starting point. For example, when I heard that
canned food was helpful in preventing urinary problems with cats, I
searched the data base. And there was an excellent article from Europe
which detailed canned food and crystals in the urine. Apparently there
was a complete absence of crystals in the urine in cats fed 100% canned
diets. That's a good starting point in that particular debate. And
those fed 1/2 and 1/2 had some crystals and so on. But it certainly
grabs one attention when one reads 100% absence. You don't often see
that in any scientific article. As I recall, and it's been quite a few
years, they took into consideration storage and other possible
contaminations that could occur in the testing.

One could add that it's really the definitive source for humans. I can
only wish that more doctors would use it. There is probably something
just for vets but this is free and not a bad start, a START, not the
finish.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Phil P. wrote:
Bull****. Fancy Feast Diets are incorporated in the general list (with
all
the other brands). The list was last Revised: 12-Oct-2003.
http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/canfood.htm There is no "other
part"
of the list- other than the dry cat food section- which is also outdated
(
Revised: 05-Nov-2003) http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/dryfood.htm

http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/dry.htm

This is the "other part" - try to comprehend. Look at it again, come
on, you can read.


Yes I saw that list when Noreen first uploaded it 6 months ago. Fancy Feast
is not on that list. Look at it again - try to comprehend. The values for
Fancy Feast that you posted were from an outdated list that clearly stated:
"Revised: 12-Oct-2003" yet you insisted the list was not outdated.
Surprising that an pedantic, anal retentive neurotic would miss such an
obvious detail.



More bull****. Fancy Feast makes *three* lines of the Turkey & Giblets
diet: *Filet & Pate* Turkey & Giblets Feast, *Sliced* Turkey & Giblets
Feast, and Turkey & Giblets Feast. Based on my experience with Purina,
I
think you probably transposed the numbers from one version to another or
forgot which product line you were referring to because you were
babbling
incessantly trying to show them how much you know. LOL!

You don't know because you were not there.


Yeah, but I know how you babble on and on about trivial and extraneous
details trying to show off what a 'scientist' you are and that's enough from
which to draw a likely conclusion. The person on the phone either forgot
what the hell you were actually talking about or she dosed off from boredom
while you were babbling incessantly. Your posts could be used as therapy
for insomniacs that don't respond to strong drugs. LOL!



I gather your knowledge is limited to textbooks and what hands-on
experience you have?


Yeah, limited to about 45 years of experience working with thousands of
stray, feral, shelter and pet cats and dozens of vets, pathologists and
labs. And limited to operating a clinic for cats that have special needs
and cats that require rehabilitation before they can be adoptable. And, as
a matter of fact, I do have a rather extensive veterinary medical library--
more extensive than most general practioners. Where exactly does your
"fountain of wisdom" about cats come from? The web! LOL! You clearly have
no or very, very little experience or practical knowledge.



You seem completely out of water when it comes to the scientific
literature.

Quite the contrary. My library consists of tens of thousands of dollars in
veterinary medical texts and I subscribe to several veterinary medical
journals. I just don't babble on about it- I used to-- but I learned that
it
only confuses people and puts them off-- as you're learning- or hopefully
learning. However, I
know how to blend 'scientific literature' with practical real life
experience-- which you don't. If you read the studies that say cats are
asocial and solitary animals, you'd believe them because they're 'scientific
literature" regardless of reality! LOL! But fret not, if you stop
babbling long enough, I'll educate you some more about real life cats.
You've already learned more about feline nutrition from me than you ever
knew before.

Consider this advice and constructive criticism- and learn from it.