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Normal for a cat to vomit a tapeworm vs the worm coming out in thestool?



 
 
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  #21  
Old April 15th 08, 04:02 AM posted to alt.cats,rec.pets.cats.health+behav,alt.pets.cats
Cat Guy
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Posts: 31
Default Normal for a cat to vomit a tapeworm vs the worm coming out in thestool?

balikitty wrote:

So is it normal, or unusual, for the worm to be vomited out?


If you are seeing an actual worm when the cat regurgitates food,
the cat can ingest the worm while grooming.


Where would the worm come from that he would injest while grooming?

Let me recap the history he

We caught a stray cat on our front porch in a raccoon trap in
mid-January.

Cat was released in an unused spare room and kept there for a day or
two. Cat was very frantic in our presence, tried to climb the walls,
windows, etc. Have never seen that before in a captured adult cat
before. Managed to divert the cat into a cat carrier, took cat to the
vet.

Health record notes say this: 10.4 lbs, Neuter. Healthy. Very
Feral. Fleas and flea dirt seen. Revolution applied. Vaccines:
FVRCP, FeLv, rabies (Imrab 3).

I stressed to the vet that I wanted a worm pill administered by them
while the cat is still "controllable" or some-what sedated, especially
since this cat is unfamilliar to me. A drontal tablet appears on the
bill, and in the health record it also says that a drontal was
administered, along with the revolution and an FeLV / FIV test (test =
negative).

The negative test for FIV is some-what unexpected, as most of the
stray cats that we catch end up testing positive for FIV. But then
again, we go to 2 different vets, and most (or all) of the positive
tests seem to come from tests performed by the other vet.

While cat was at the vet, we cleaned the room, laundered the canvas
floor covering and all blankets, bedding, etc. Cat was released into
the room, was immediately less frantic and very quickly was calm when
we came into the room to feed him. Could pet his head, behind his
ears, etc, but he usually initially gave a hiss and stiffened up.

After about 7 weeks, we noticed a reddish streak on the canvas floor
covering, and a new streak almost every day for 2 weeks afterwards.
Stool always appeared normal (no diarhea), always ate all the food,
drank water, etc. Reddish streaking stopped, but he becomes more
resistant to being approached and petted. We cleaned the room at this
point, laundered the canvas floor covering and all blankets, sheets
and bedding.

Two weeks later, I see large vomit pile (did not examine it closely,
but nothing "wormy-looking" was obvious). Also see dried tape worm
segments in bedding. He absolutely refuses to be petted. Backs into
a corner when petting is attempted, hisses, etc. The next morning I
place small milbemax pill in with a small amount of soft food. He
eats all food, no sign that he spat out the pill. I go to work.

Come home from work, find new vomit pile. See what on first glance
looks like a rubber band. Closer inspection shows that it's a worm.
Flat (not round) about 1/4" wide. Ridged or segmented (not smooth).
Divert cat into cat carrier, take him out of room, clean room, launder
everything again.

It's been 3 or 4 days now, cat is again approachable, can be petted.

Not sure what to do at this point, except maybe try to apply
revolution and give him another milbemax in 3 weeks.

Again I stress that this worm was flat, not round. Looked like one of
those large (wide) rubber bands (not like a piece of spaghetti).

Cat really never gave any outward appearance of being ill. Was always
alert (when we were in the room scooping his litter or feeding him).

i dont think what he is seeing is a worm at all. I am a licensed
vet tech for 18 years. Trust me on this. thanks.


I've seen a lot of different vomits from our various cats over the
years. Trust me - this was a worm, not a noodle that somehow found
it's way into his room and eaten by him and then was upchucked and
somehow came out completely intact.

Did kitty have a fecal sample done?


No - no fecal samples have yet been done.
  #22  
Old April 15th 08, 09:07 AM posted to alt.cats,alt.pets.cats,rec.pets.cats.health+behav
Phil P.
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Posts: 1,027
Default Normal for a cat to vomit a tapeworm vs the worm coming out inthe stool?


"Cat Guy" wrote in message ...
The worm looked like this:

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/images14...rmImg_1395.jpg

but I didn't think it was as white in color as in that picture. It
was mostly flat, and segmented, and tapered at one end.


Like this:
http://maxshouse.com/Parasitology/fe...a_tapeworm.jpg


They didn't look like this, did they:
http://maxshouse.com/Parasitology/Whipworms+egg.jpg

These worms aren't all that common in cats.



Roundworms (if I'm not mistaken) are round (not flat) and smooth.



Yes: http://maxshouse.com/Parasitology/Roundworms.jpg


They're more commonly seen like this:
http://maxshouse.com/Parasitology/Cr...passengers.jpg



Well, I think this was a tapeworm. Do roundworms shed
rice-grain-sized segments out the annus?


No.






  #23  
Old April 15th 08, 09:10 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav
cshenk
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Posts: 1,952
Default Normal for a cat to vomit a tapeworm vs the worm coming out in the stool?

"William Graham" wrote in message
Cat Guy wrote:

It IS NOT "bad" to crosspost when the groups being posted to have
something in common with the subject matter being discussed.


It it's horrible! Catguy, my apologies if I made it seem so. I didnt
explain fully and then accidently overdeleted so this is the firat reply
I've seen.

All the groups are cat related.

My problem with all this is that I never know how to make sure that the
original poster receives my answer without posting my reply to all the
groups he has listed in his header.....IOW, where, exactly is he posting
from? If I knew that, then I could eliminate all the other groups from the
header, and confine the answer to the original poster's group, plus,
(perhaps) any other groups that might also be interested. But without
knowing that, I have little choice but to post my answer to all the groups
in the header of the original post.


One should be able to 'presume' if the poster added a group though, that
they read it. Hence by 'nettiqutte' we should be able to reply just to the
one group we are in. I do not for example get the other groups (only
rec.pets.health+behav) so deleted them in the reply.

What I meant to explain was how many automated spam filters will act. A spam
filter applied at the user end is often set to delete any messages with more
than one newsgroup in the header to deliver to. As a result, some will
never _see_ his origional message. Catguy wasnt 'rude' or 'bad' or
'spamming'. He was simply unaware and asked why some deleted the other
groups.

It would also be 'wrong' of me to reply to the other groups since I do not
get them and the others in those other groups won't know that so if they
reply only to one of those, to me, I'll never see it. Not 'horrible' of me
if I added them in, but a little rude unless I warned in the post that
replies would have to go just to 'this group'


  #24  
Old April 17th 08, 03:43 AM posted to alt.cats,rec.pets.cats.health+behav,alt.pets.cats
[email protected]
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Posts: 1
Default Normal for a cat to vomit a tapeworm vs the worm coming out inthe stool?

On Apr 12, 10:27 am, Cat Guy wrote:
We recently gave one of our cats a deworming pill (milbemax) and later
found a worm (sorta looked like a tan-colored rubber band) in a pile
of vomit.

I thought that tape worms reside or attach to the intestinal wall (and
not the stomach wall) and therefore when the worm leaves the cat it's
by way of the stool.

So is it normal, or unusual, for the worm to be vomited out?


  #25  
Old April 17th 08, 03:48 AM posted to alt.cats,rec.pets.cats.health+behav,alt.pets.cats
[email protected]
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Posts: 2
Default Normal for a cat to vomit a tapeworm vs the worm coming out inthe stool?

On Apr 12, 10:27 am, Cat Guy wrote:
We recently gave one of our cats a deworming pill (milbemax) and later
found a worm (sorta looked like a tan-colored rubber band) in a pile
of vomit.

I thought that tape worms reside or attach to the intestinal wall (and
not the stomach wall) and therefore when the worm leaves the cat it's
by way of the stool.

So is it normal, or unusual, for the worm to be vomited out?


It's not common, but it's normal. I had a large gray cat named Purr
Baby. He' throw up tape worms from time to time when he got older.
He passed last month.

Our vet said a tape worm had to be pretty long to get barfed up. They
looked like large rubber bands covered in bile.

If you cat is older, consider checking him for other parasites.
Consider giving him a B-12 shot since tape worms deplete B-12. It
helped Purr Baby a lot.

--Wayne
  #26  
Old April 17th 08, 04:29 AM posted to alt.cats,alt.pets.cats,rec.pets.cats.health+behav
[email protected]
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Posts: 2
Default Normal for a cat to vomit a tapeworm vs the worm coming out inthe stool?

On Apr 12, 12:27 pm, Cat Guy wrote:
AMUN wrote:
I thought that tape worms reside or attach to the intestinal
wall (and not the stomach wall) and therefore when the worm
leaves the cat it's by way of the stool.


So is it normal, or unusual, for the worm to be vomited out?

Not 100% normal. but I've heard of that happening even without
deworming. Usually the infestation is pretty bad by the time
it gets to the point it vomits them up though


Although are you sure it wasn't a rubber band ?
Cats can try to eat some pretty strange things


The (male) cat in question was caught in a trap around mid-January on
our front porch and soon after was taken to a vet for neutering,
vaccination and Revolution treatment. I'm pretty sure he was given a
drontal pill during recovery by the vet.

He is kept in a spare room with a minimal amount of furnature. Unlike
other cats we've caught, fixed, and adopted out, this guy has remained
very wild and resists all attempts to socialize with us, even after 11
weeks. I can barely reach out and touch his head without him opening
his eyes and his mouth wide and hissing as he backs into a corner. He
has been quite content to simply sleep in a corner under a table most
of the time. Not a sound from him - unlike the other cats we've
caught (they usually cry at night, I think as they look out the
window).

About a month ago we noticed that there were reddish streaks on the
canvas drop-cover we have on the floor of his room. A new streak
seemed to be appearing each day for about a week or two. I'm thinking
they were bum-scoots. A few days ago he threw up a lot of food, and
that's when I noticed dried tape-worm segments on the blanket where he
sleeps.

So I placed a milbemax pill (un-crushed) in with his food and within
12 hours he vomitted up some food and the worm. It was definately a
worm and not a rubber band.

And the very next night (last night) he started crying. Hopefully his
quiteness and wildness was being caused by GI discomfort that has now
passed and perhaps he might just start being more friendly. We
were/are considering letting him go in a week or two because we
considered him unadoptable.

I'm wondering if I should give him another milbemax in a week just to
make sure we've gotten rid of all the worms.

Comments? Questions?

Here's a technique I've used to quickly make friends with ferals.

I take a stick about 18" long (the first one was a bamboo back
scratcher in the shape of a hand) and sit on the floor or on a chair
near them. It you have them in a bathroom with the door closed,
that's seems easiest. But it's also tricky. Don't chase them.

I sit still and breathe deep and slow until my excitement drains off.
Cats can smell it and ferals don't know if your excitement is
dangerous or not. Then I softly scratch the floor and withdraw. I'll
do this for fifteen minutes.

Then I place my hand on the floor just out of reach and even with
their hips. I hold the stick on the floor parallel to their body up
even with their head, and wag it back and forth a few inches, and then
stop. This may get a hiss.

More breathing and slowing. Hissing goes straight from the cat to my
adrenals. Have to slow back down.

Then I get the stick near enough for them to swat, which they do. If
I haven't made a sound and kept my energy calm, the look on their face
is usually, 'Doh! Just a stick.'

My first stick contact is usually a paw or forearm. This seems to be
the least threatening because they have easy options and feel in
control. Any hiss puts my focus back on my breathing.

With adult ferals it takes me about 30-45 minutes and many hisses
until I'm scratching their neck with the end of the stick. (Damn, I
miss that back scratcher; it was perfect for this.)

With kittens and juveniles, it goes faster. They have so few points
of reference in their young lives that they don't judge me quick. I
can scratch their neck and cheek and slip my hand down the stick until
a finger replaces the stick. Our first affectionate touch.

If adults freak, let them and try again later. Don't chase or squeak
at them. It's not so much that you're going to get scratched, but that
you're confirming some prejudice from their life experience or
instinct.

I can usually pick up the kittens and nuzzle them under my jaw. The
breath sounds and my voice seem familiar to them. Still, don't chase
the kittens yet. A stick with a feather that they can chase is much
better. If you need to coral them at bedtime, have them chase the
feather until their a bit winded and close to you. Then just pck them
up.

Play hard. Pick them up during and after play. Tuck them in and let
them lick cream cheese off your finger.

Cream cheese is the net step with the adults. I lay on the floor and
extend my hand along an arc so they watch it slowly coming from my
side towards their front feet. I stop when they swat me.

If they didn't use claws, which is often the case, then I make eye
contact and smile. Smiling changes my energy. It also masks the
discomfort of laying on the floor. They know when you're
uncomfortable and it can confuse them or put them on guard.

We rescued a 20 pound Manx momma kitty and her two kittens out of the
Tullies. She would sit under the kitchen table and watch her kittens
eat next to our other cats, watch her Manx son curl up to sleep with
our Rottweiller, watch my wife stroke the back and tail of her other
son, and slap the floor like a cheetah every time I approached her.

Then, after a week or so with the stick and the cream cheese, I rolled
over one morning, sweat pouring from the middle of my back, and caught
a glimpse of a big Manx rump gliding off the bed.

She slept with me for weeks. Then one day I was playing with her
kittens. They would run up to my feet, slam on the breaks, crash into
me and run away. I would reach down and swat at their behinds as they
retreated. It got pretty rowdy as the boys got into it. Then momma
got closer to watch.

I tried to get her to play. She backed up, doubt covering her eyes.
I went towards her. She ran back. I moved faster and spoke to her
and she hissed, slapped the floor, and glared at me, the betrayal
filling her eyes and piercing my heart.

She never slept with me again.

Don't chase the adult ferals. Do earn their trust. They're
magnificent spirits.

Wayne
  #28  
Old April 21st 08, 01:52 PM posted to alt.cats,rec.pets.cats.health+behav,alt.pets.cats
[email protected]
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Posts: 2
Default Normal for a cat to vomit a tapeworm vs the worm coming out inthe stool?

On Apr 12, 10:27 am, Cat Guy wrote:
We recently gave one of our cats a deworming pill (milbemax) and later
found a worm (sorta looked like a tan-colored rubber band) in a pile
of vomit.

I thought that tape worms reside or attach to the intestinal wall (and
not the stomach wall) and therefore when the worm leaves the cat it's
by way of the stool.

So is it normal, or unusual, for the worm to be vomited out?


Once the drug is ingested, the worms are effected almost immediately.
This includes detaching from the intestinal wall, and an attempt to
escape the caustic effects of the drug. It is possible for the worm
to leave the body via stool or vomit with a heavy burden, but because
of the nature of most tapeworms, they are more likely to be absorbed
by the animal's body.
Because mibemycin is part of the drug you gave, it is possible, too
that your cat had roundworms which may be what you saw instead of a
tapeworm.
Milbemax has both milbemycin and praziquantel in it. Milbemycin is a
drug used in preventative care, such as Interceptor. Praziquantel is
strictly a tapeworm deworming agent.
The other possibility is that you didn't see a worm at all, but a
foreign object that resembles one.
yup, i think i covered everything.
  #29  
Old April 21st 08, 02:04 PM posted to alt.cats,rec.pets.cats.health+behav,alt.pets.cats
[email protected]
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Posts: 2
Default Normal for a cat to vomit a tapeworm vs the worm coming out inthe stool?

On Apr 14, 3:54 am, balikitty wrote:
On Apr 12, 10:27 am, Cat Guy wrote:

We recently gave one of our cats a deworming pill (milbemax) and later
found a worm (sorta looked like a tan-colored rubber band) in a pile
of vomit.


I thought that tape worms reside or attach to the intestinal wall (and
not the stomach wall) and therefore when the worm leaves the cat it's
by way of the stool.


So is it normal, or unusual, for the worm to be vomited out?


If you are seeing an actual worm when the cat regurgitates food, the
cat can ingest the worm while grooming. Tape worms look exactly like
rice. If it is a roundworm, which will be visible in vomit, its more
spaghetti-like. Before the cat is infested this bad with worms , your
pet will be obviously ill. It will be hard to actually see a tape
worm that has been ingested and comes back up in vomit. The likely way
your cat can actually do this with a tape worm, it will be ingested
and thrown up immediately. If this happens again. Take the worm to
your vet, they can identify under a microscope. You will have to do
this fairly soon, as the worm will dry up.


Tapeworms MUST go through an intermediate host before developing to an
adult in the small intestine. Usually in household situations, flea
larvae are the culprit. Control your fleas and you control your
tapeworms. There is absolutely no way that an animal who ingests one
of the rice looking packets will develop adults from it.
Also, you can keep the worm in a ziplock with a tiny bit of saline
solution to preserve it long enough for the vet to check it out.
Roundworms will cause a general ill look to an animal with them, but
tapeworms often do not present with any signs aside from the detached
proglottids (the rice things) in the stool.
Be very careful handling the tapeworm segments, there are some species
out there (though the likelihood is extremely low) that it could be a
type that the human is the intermediate host, which can be very
dangerous.
Just be sure to wash your hands very well.


 




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