[OT] Question about generic medication

This question is especially for people who take generic anti-depressants,
because I'm interested in the effect on mood. But if someone has a
relevant story about a different kind of drug, please chime in!

I've been on generic Effexor for a few years, while I was a member of
Kaiser HMO. Then I left Kaiser and switched to Blue Shield. I got my
first prescription for this medication from my new doctor and pharmacy
about 3 weeks ago.

The first thing I noticed was that the pills looked different from the
ones I used to get from Kaiser. I assumed this meant that the pharmacy
Blue Shield uses gets their drugs from a different manufacturer than
the one Kaiser uses. I wondered if that would make any difference to me,
but then forgot about it.

About 10 or so days ago, I suddenly noticed an abrupt change in my
mood. I stopped wanting to do any work. If you noticed that I was posted
a lot last week, that's why. I simply couldn't get myself to focus
on my work at all. I did get a little bit done, but not nearly enough.
I also sunk deeper into my isolation pattern. I didn't make any social
plans, kept my phone ringer turned off, and hunkered down at home with
my computer, tv, and cats.

I think there's a vicious cycle here because once I start doing that,
I get very depressed very fast. At this point, nothing I used to enjoy
gives me any pleasure - everything feels like a chore. Even my singing
group annoys me. I feel like the director is a bossy clod with no social
skills. This somewhat true of her - eg, she'll give abrupt orders with
no explanation, and the effect is one of "Because I said so" - but usually
I take this a bit more in stride. She's a very decent person, but right
now her flaws are irritating me more than usual.

To be honest, I don't like anyone. Please don't take that personally,
or yell at me that "No wonder nobody likes you if you don't like them",
as though that will make me like people. I can't help it. Everything
annoys me. I'm not happy in my friendships right now. This one is cold
and unexpressive (she does care about me, but doesn't express emotions
very easily). That one is judgemental. The other one has trouble hearing
about "hard" things and especially doesn't get internal problems like
depression. Please don't say "your friends suck, you need new ones". I
have been having a very hard time even meeting new people, much less
connecting with anyone well enough to want to make friends with them.
Anyway, my friends are all decent people, but right now I'm far more
aware of their shortcomings than anything else. I just feel cranky,
irritable and bothered by everyone.

I also don't feel comfortable with people I don't know very well. Every
interaction I have, even the most fleeting, such as nodding hello to a
colleague in the hall, feels like some kind of criticism or indictment
of me. My thoughts go, "Why did he give me *that* look? Does he think
I'm totally useless here?" I do realize this is totally irrational.

I'm also tired and unmotivated, and when I try to find something to
enteratain myself, I'm bored to death, no matter what I'm doing.

The question is: could this be caused by the change in generics? If
two different companies are making the drug, then it's not unreasonable
to think that they might have slightly different formulas. The main
drug might be the same, but, as someone once put it, maybe the "binding
agents" are slightly different. (Whatever those are.) I'm just thinking
that maybe this formulation might not work as well with my body as the
other one.

Has anyone had any experience with this and noticed a change in the
efficacy of the drug? Note that I'm *not* talking about a change from
name brand to generic. I'm talking about a change from one generic
manufacturer to another generic.

Last, if it's true that my sudden dark mood is caused by this change,
is there some way I could get access to the other ones??

Thanks for any input or suggestions.

--
Joyce ^..^

(To email me, remove the X's from my user name.)

Last, if it's true that my sudden dark mood is caused by this change, is
there some way I could get access to the other ones??

Thanks for any input or suggestions.

I have no direct experience with that issue, but considering the whole
process of drug manufacturing, yes, it is entirely possible. I would
recommend an immediate visit to the doctor, and tell him in detail how
the change in brand has affected you.

Generic drugs are manufactured to the same standards that name-brand
drugs are and use the same primary ingredient. However, there is no
guarantee that the other constituents will be the same. Binders, fillers,
colorants, etc can change. Yes, these are minor ingredients that
shouldn't affect the efficacy of the drug, but shouldn't and won't are
often vastly different. Different people absorb and metabolize a given
set of chemicals differently, so while it's not common to experience a
big difference in drug effects when switching manufacturers it is
certainly not unheard of.

By all means, let the doc know. And while it might not be easy to do the
way you are currently feeling I also strongly advise that you not let him
put you off. If your doc says "No, that can't be the problem, you're just
having a bad week", stop him! Don't let him get off that easy - it's not
him that's suffering through it.

Keeping fingers crossed that you can resolve this quickly. I know how
absolutely wretched it feels to be really depressed.

Dan

Dan M wrote:

Generic drugs are manufactured to the same standards that name-brand
drugs are and use the same primary ingredient. However, there is no
guarantee that the other constituents will be the same. Binders, fillers,
colorants, etc can change. Yes, these are minor ingredients that
shouldn't affect the efficacy of the drug, but shouldn't and won't are
often vastly different. Different people absorb and metabolize a given
set of chemicals differently, so while it's not common to experience a
big difference in drug effects when switching manufacturers it is
certainly not unheard of.

Thanks, Dan, this is what I'm wondering.

Of course, it could just be a coincidence, but given that my change in
mood was pretty sudden and happened about a week or two after I changed
drug brands, it seems like something I should investigate.

By all means, let the doc know.

I will - as soon as I find one! I did find a general practice MD to
keep my existing prescriptions going (during the transition from Kaiser),
but she is probably not qualified to do much more than write the script
for these meds. I doubt psych meds are her specialty. So yeah, I have to
find a shrink asap.

--
Joyce ^..^

(To email me, remove the X's from my user name.)

On 8 Dec 2008 23:01:26 GMT, Dan M wrote:

I have no direct experience with that issue, but considering the whole
process of drug manufacturing, yes, it is entirely possible. I would
recommend an immediate visit to the doctor, and tell him in detail how
the change in brand has affected you.

Generic drugs are manufactured to the same standards that name-brand
drugs are and use the same primary ingredient. However, there is no
guarantee that the other constituents will be the same. Binders, fillers,
colorants, etc can change. Yes, these are minor ingredients that
shouldn't affect the efficacy of the drug, but shouldn't and won't are
often vastly different. Different people absorb and metabolize a given
set of chemicals differently, so while it's not common to experience a
big difference in drug effects when switching manufacturers it is
certainly not unheard of.

By all means, let the doc know. And while it might not be easy to do the
way you are currently feeling I also strongly advise that you not let him
put you off. If your doc says "No, that can't be the problem, you're just
having a bad week", stop him! Don't let him get off that easy - it's not
him that's suffering through it.

Keeping fingers crossed that you can resolve this quickly. I know how
absolutely wretched it feels to be really depressed.

I agree with what Dan is telling you. When the different companies
make a generic drug, the formula is not the same. They have to use the
same amount of "active" ingredient, but the other, "inert" ingredients
can vary widely. This can result in varying absorption rate, and in
rare instances you run across someone can take one company's pill but
can't tolerate one made by another company - even though they are
supposed to be the same.

As for what you can do, I agree with Dan - talk to you Doctor. Since I
used to be an Army Pharmacy NCO, I'd talk with a pharmacist first, but
I'd definitely talk to the MD. When the doctor writes a prescription
he/she can specify brand name or generic, and if he gives permission
to use generic he can specify that the generic be made or not made by
certain companies. (At least that's how the DOD works, it may entail
more paperwork depending on your HMO)

Another question to check with the pharmacy would be whether or not
there might be a recall bulletin for the lot number from which your
script was filled. In the Army, we received monthly supply bulletins
which usually contained dozens of notices. Usually it was just an
extension of expiration dates or some such, but it wasn't uncommon to
receive notice to suspend using such and such lot # until certain
tests could be run.

wrote in message
...
Dan M wrote:

Generic drugs are manufactured to the same standards that name-brand
drugs are and use the same primary ingredient. However, there is no
guarantee that the other constituents will be the same. Binders,
fillers,
colorants, etc can change. Yes, these are minor ingredients that
shouldn't affect the efficacy of the drug, but shouldn't and won't are
often vastly different. Different people absorb and metabolize a given
set of chemicals differently, so while it's not common to experience a
big difference in drug effects when switching manufacturers it is
certainly not unheard of.

Thanks, Dan, this is what I'm wondering.

Of course, it could just be a coincidence, but given that my change in
mood was pretty sudden and happened about a week or two after I changed
drug brands, it seems like something I should investigate.

By all means, let the doc know.

I will - as soon as I find one! I did find a general practice MD to
keep my existing prescriptions going (during the transition from Kaiser),
but she is probably not qualified to do much more than write the script
for these meds. I doubt psych meds are her specialty. So yeah, I have to
find a shrink asap.

--
Joyce ^..^

It would also be a good idea to speak with the pharmacist to make sure that
a mistake wasn't made there. It is always a good idea to check with the
pharmacist if the pills you get are a different color, size or shape from
the ones you've had before.

Joy

wrote in message
...
Dan M wrote:

Generic drugs are manufactured to the same standards that name-brand
drugs are and use the same primary ingredient. However, there is no
guarantee that the other constituents will be the same. Binders,
fillers,
colorants, etc can change. Yes, these are minor ingredients that
shouldn't affect the efficacy of the drug, but shouldn't and won't are
often vastly different. Different people absorb and metabolize a given
set of chemicals differently, so while it's not common to experience a
big difference in drug effects when switching manufacturers it is
certainly not unheard of.

Thanks, Dan, this is what I'm wondering.

Of course, it could just be a coincidence, but given that my change in
mood was pretty sudden and happened about a week or two after I changed
drug brands, it seems like something I should investigate.

By all means, let the doc know.

I will - as soon as I find one! I did find a general practice MD to
keep my existing prescriptions going (during the transition from Kaiser),
but she is probably not qualified to do much more than write the script
for these meds. I doubt psych meds are her specialty. So yeah, I have to
find a shrink asap.

--
Joyce ^..^

(To email me, remove the X's from my user name.)

I just read something about that which says basically what others have said
to you about the inert ingredients in a generic drug. I'm not sure whether
this link is the exact one I read a week or so ago but has the same
cautions......Lorna
http://74.125.45.132/search?q=cache:...=us&lr=lang_en


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Joy wrote:
wrote in message
...
Dan M wrote:

Generic drugs are manufactured to the same standards that name-brand
drugs are and use the same primary ingredient. However, there is no
guarantee that the other constituents will be the same. Binders,
fillers,
colorants, etc can change. Yes, these are minor ingredients that
shouldn't affect the efficacy of the drug, but shouldn't and won't are
often vastly different. Different people absorb and metabolize a given
set of chemicals differently, so while it's not common to experience a
big difference in drug effects when switching manufacturers it is
certainly not unheard of.
Thanks, Dan, this is what I'm wondering.

Of course, it could just be a coincidence, but given that my change in
mood was pretty sudden and happened about a week or two after I changed
drug brands, it seems like something I should investigate.

By all means, let the doc know.
I will - as soon as I find one! I did find a general practice MD to
keep my existing prescriptions going (during the transition from Kaiser),
but she is probably not qualified to do much more than write the script
for these meds. I doubt psych meds are her specialty. So yeah, I have to
find a shrink asap.

--
Joyce ^..^

It would also be a good idea to speak with the pharmacist to make sure that
a mistake wasn't made there. It is always a good idea to check with the
pharmacist if the pills you get are a different color, size or shape from
the ones you've had before.

Joy


Absolutely check with the pharmacist! Eric took some heart medication
for awhile and one time, the pills looked different. He didn't take
them but went back the next evening to the pharmacy and explained the
situation to the pharmacist. When the pharmacist looked in the
container at the pills Eric had, he turned pale and wanted to be VERY
SURE Eric hadn't taken any of them! Apparently, they could have made
him extremely sick, if not dead! So mistakes can happen.

Hope things get sorted out soon for you...
--Kim

Joy wrote:

It would also be a good idea to speak with the pharmacist to make
sure that a mistake wasn't made there. It is always a good idea
to check with the pharmacist if the pills you get are a different
color, size or shape from the ones you've had before.

I did wonder that when I first got the pills. I was actually a little
bit nervous about taking it, in case it was some drug that maybe I
shouldn't be taking. However, I'm now sure that's not the case. Effexor
is a very difficult drug to come off of, and if I were suddenly not
taking it for a few weeks, I would *definitely* know it! It wouldn't
just be a matter of a change in mood. There are withdrawal symptom that
can sometimes be quite severe, such as nausea, dizzyness, headaches,
and a peculiar "brain wooosh" symptom, for lack of a better term. (Any
of you out there who do take Effexor, and have missed a dose, probably
know just what I mean. )

In any case, I haven't been getting those symptoms. I've been grouchy
and irritable, and very negative in my thinking, but not physically sick.
So I think I'm getting the medicine, but maybe not quite as well.

--
Joyce ^..^

(To email me, remove the X's from my user name.)

wrote in message

This question is especially for people who take generic
anti-depressants, because I'm interested in the effect on mood. But
if someone has a relevant story about a different kind of drug,
please chime in!

I've been on generic Effexor for a few years, while I was a member of
Kaiser HMO. Then I left Kaiser and switched to Blue Shield. I got my
first prescription for this medication from my new doctor and pharmacy
about 3 weeks ago.

The first thing I noticed was that the pills looked different from the
ones I used to get from Kaiser. I assumed this meant that the pharmacy
Blue Shield uses gets their drugs from a different manufacturer than
the one Kaiser uses. I wondered if that would make any difference to
me, but then forgot about it.

About 10 or so days ago, I suddenly noticed an abrupt change in my
mood. I stopped wanting to do any work. If you noticed that I was
posted a lot last week, that's why. I simply couldn't get myself
to focus
on my work at all. I did get a little bit done, but not nearly enough.
I also sunk deeper into my isolation pattern. I didn't make any social
plans, kept my phone ringer turned off, and hunkered down at home with
my computer, tv, and cats.

I am not a pharmacist.... but I am a chemist.

And pardon if I"m teaching you to suck eggs.

First all, make sure your *dose* is the same regardless of the quantity of
pills you have to take. For example your previous pills may have had 500mg
of the acitve ingredient in each pill whilst these new ones only have 250mg
of the active ingredient per pill. In that case you will need to take two of
the new pills to have the same dose you previously had.

Second, make sure that the active incredient is in the exact same form.
You'd be surprised at the difference between a sodium salt and the free acid
(for example) can make. Third, as others have said, the processing will be
different between various manufacturing companies. Binders and colourants
*should not* effect the bio-activity and take up rate of the active
ingredient (although really, who knows?), but your body could be having a
reaction (or not having a reaction when it used to) that speeds up/slows
down the metabolism of the active ingredient.

But the big one is the outer shell if it has one. Some pills have a coating
that makes sure that the active ingredient is absorbed slowly by the body.
If the coating is damaged, absent, different or even a different thickness,
the absorption rate may be different or may be occuring in the wrong section
of you digestive tract.

You need to back to the doctor and change your script. It could be as simple
as upping the dose of this new medication until you feel OK again, or
reverting back to your old script or, finding a different anti-depressant
now that this one is no longer effective. The change in mood is most likely
do to the change in prescription, but it may be just a coincidence. You need
to go back to your GP, or even better the psychiatrist[1] that gave you the
prescription for the original antidepressants in the first place.

Yowie
[1] I am assuming that like here, only psychiatrists can prescibe
medications as they have a medical degree specialising in psychology,
whereas psychologists have a degree in psychology only.

Yowie
--
If you're paddling upstream in a canoe and a wheel falls off, how many
pancakes can you fit in a doghouse? None, icecream doesn't have bones.

"Dan M"
Last, if it's true that my sudden dark mood is caused by this change, is
there some way I could get access to the other ones??

Thanks for any input or suggestions.

I have no direct experience with that issue, but considering the whole
process of drug manufacturing, yes, it is entirely possible. I would
recommend an immediate visit to the doctor, and tell him in detail how
the change in brand has affected you.

Generic drugs are manufactured to the same standards that name-brand
drugs are and use the same primary ingredient. However, there is no
guarantee that the other constituents will be the same. Binders, fillers,
colorants, etc can change. Yes, these are minor ingredients that
shouldn't affect the efficacy of the drug, but shouldn't and won't are
often vastly different. Different people absorb and metabolize a given
set of chemicals differently, so while it's not common to experience a
big difference in drug effects when switching manufacturers it is
certainly not unheard of.

By all means, let the doc know. And while it might not be easy to do the
way you are currently feeling I also strongly advise that you not let him
put you off. If your doc says "No, that can't be the problem, you're just
having a bad week", stop him! Don't let him get off that easy - it's not
him that's suffering through it.

Keeping fingers crossed that you can resolve this quickly. I know how
absolutely wretched it feels to be really depressed.

Dan

I totally agree with Dan..talk to your Dr and don't take any flack from him.
It's YOUR body and only you know how it feels. I was on the brand name
Effexor for a couple of years and started getting really bad side effects
with-in the last year, so I had to wean myself off it. You can't just stop
taking it..you have to wean yourself off it, and this process takes a couple
of weeks. My damn Dr was enraged that I went off it, but f**k him..I nearly
offed myself because it was having such bad side effects on me.
It is nasty stuff Joyce, and you're showing signs of 'side effects' all of a
sudden, IMHO I still have the paper that came with the samples. Also, look
it up on the internet. I never knew Effexor came in generic till you
mentioned it. I don't even see TV ads for it any more.
When I do get my other Rx's, they're all generic, and sometimes the brands
will be different, like my thyoid med, but it was the Effexor that nearly
did me in.
((((((((((((Joyce))))))))))) and I hope that hug wasn't a 'bad' thing.
You'll get this sorted out...
Find out what's going on sweetie.
Love, and purrs
Kyla