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Indoor cat..quality of life?



 
 
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  #61  
Old September 4th 04, 12:26 PM
Alison
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"Wendy" wrote in message
...


I'm wondering what the let your cats outdoors people think the

benefit is.
Is it the fresh air and exercise? If so that can be accomplished by

building
a large outside enclosure or having a screened in porch. If the

point of
going outside is to let the cat be unfettered, have the freedom to

wander
about and interact with the wildlife (translated chase/kill birds,

mice and
rabbits), then the enclosure or screened porch only increased the

sq.
footage of the "cage".


It's certainly a good idea for people to try to build an enclosure
or screen a porch for their cats. I don't think the Inside Cat Only
brigade emphasises this enough ( I don't mean the people on this group
!) to the average pet owner and the average pet owner might not have
enough knowledge to keep their cat from being bored and frustrated.
It's easier with dogs , you can take them to the park and they don't
seem to mind doing the repetitious games such as catch the ball , my
dog will do this twenty times and not be bored but cats are far to
uintelligent and clever for that.
My cat goes outside (daytime only), she is about 5 now and she
doesn't go far from the garden . If I had to, I would fence the garden
to keep her in but I don't feel she is at risk, though obviously,
nothing in life is certain. She has the choice, in bad weather no way
will she go out . So if she has a choice that's less frustration for
her.
When she goes out , she likes to patrol her patch and catch up on
whose been visiting and what other animals have been in the garden ,
she will sit and watch at certain places for mice and maybe stalk the
feral pigeons. This gives her a work ethic which is satisfying and
stimulating, after that it's nap time in the shed . I have always had
rabbits and guinea pigs and they attract mice, so her job is to keep
the mice population down, other wise I would be over run .

As to killing birds and mice and rabbits , so do hunters, dogs,
farmers , people poison mice that come into their houses etc. Why make
the cat out to be the baddie? If you eat meat or wear leather, that
means an animal has died for you; should you become a vegan?

When a cat goes out, *every* day is different. Cats are very
intelligent and it's harder to replicate that indoors though maybe
not impossible.
Alison





  #64  
Old September 6th 04, 08:26 PM
Steve G
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Fan wrote in message . ..
(...)
I am very surprised that you didn't get a huge number of people who
equate keeping a cat indoors to abuse. Other topics such as this one
have often caused that. Some of the posters would have liked to hang
anyone who even considered this. The rational dialog is refreshing.


The reverse also applies, mind you, when the indoor-advocates are in
full-flow...

I believe that, wherever possible, cats should be given access to the
outdoors - but not at any cost, nor in all situations. This is a
casewise decision.


The statistics show that an indoor cat lives much longer than an
outdoor one because of the dangers of living outdoors.


Well, no they don't, because there are (AFAIK) no reliable statistics
that detail the longevity of indoor and outdoor cats. Feel free to
provide a cite to prove me wrong though...

(...)

My cats ONLY go out on a leash and only during daylight.


I.e., you have enough wit about you to provide access to the outdoors
for your cats. Many people do not do this, and I'm sure that some
simply cannot be bothered to.

(...)

They have a tremendous number of toys and cat friendly things to climb
on. Since there is more than one cat, they also entertain one another.
Wrestling is the number one sport here.


Well, yes, if thought is given to the richness of the indoor
environment, with sufficient space, and sufficient attention, indoor
cats can obviously have an acceptable standard of life. However, my
main issue is that indoor should not be the default choice and that
the owner should carefully weigh up the risks and benefits for their
cats, in their particular situation.

Having said that, in the OP's case I would almost certainly keep my
cats indoors, or with protected outdoor access, if coyotes had seen
some of 'em off.

I also echo the idea of having more than 1 indoor cat, especially if
the cat(s) will be alone for large amounts of the day.

YMMV.

Steve.
  #65  
Old September 6th 04, 08:26 PM
Steve G
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Fan wrote in message . ..
(...)
I am very surprised that you didn't get a huge number of people who
equate keeping a cat indoors to abuse. Other topics such as this one
have often caused that. Some of the posters would have liked to hang
anyone who even considered this. The rational dialog is refreshing.


The reverse also applies, mind you, when the indoor-advocates are in
full-flow...

I believe that, wherever possible, cats should be given access to the
outdoors - but not at any cost, nor in all situations. This is a
casewise decision.


The statistics show that an indoor cat lives much longer than an
outdoor one because of the dangers of living outdoors.


Well, no they don't, because there are (AFAIK) no reliable statistics
that detail the longevity of indoor and outdoor cats. Feel free to
provide a cite to prove me wrong though...

(...)

My cats ONLY go out on a leash and only during daylight.


I.e., you have enough wit about you to provide access to the outdoors
for your cats. Many people do not do this, and I'm sure that some
simply cannot be bothered to.

(...)

They have a tremendous number of toys and cat friendly things to climb
on. Since there is more than one cat, they also entertain one another.
Wrestling is the number one sport here.


Well, yes, if thought is given to the richness of the indoor
environment, with sufficient space, and sufficient attention, indoor
cats can obviously have an acceptable standard of life. However, my
main issue is that indoor should not be the default choice and that
the owner should carefully weigh up the risks and benefits for their
cats, in their particular situation.

Having said that, in the OP's case I would almost certainly keep my
cats indoors, or with protected outdoor access, if coyotes had seen
some of 'em off.

I also echo the idea of having more than 1 indoor cat, especially if
the cat(s) will be alone for large amounts of the day.

YMMV.

Steve.
  #68  
Old September 7th 04, 12:48 AM
Phil P.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Steve G" wrote in message
om...
Fan wrote in message

. ..

The statistics show that an indoor cat lives much longer than an
outdoor one because of the dangers of living outdoors.


Well, no they don't,


Well, yes they do.

because there are (AFAIK)



Apparently, that's not far enough.



no reliable statistics
that detail the longevity of indoor and outdoor cats.



Sure there are! There have been several major studies spanning almost 50
years, conducted in different parts of the country, published in
peer-reviewed veterinary medical and behavior journals and texts, as well as
in peer-reviewed wildlife journals that prove beyond a reasonable doubt
indoor cats generally live *three* to *four* times longer than outdoor cats.
To date *none* of these studies have been refuted.


Feel free to
provide a cite to prove me wrong though...



"A cite"? How about three?

Comfort A,
Maximum ages reached by domestic cats.
J Mammol 37:118-119, 1956

Kolata RJ, Kraut NH, Johnston DE,
Patterns of trauma in urban dogs and cats: a study of 1,000
cases.
J Am Vet Med Assoc 1974 Mar 1;164(5):499-502

Childs JE, Ross L,
Urban cats: characteristics and estimation of mortality due to motor
vehicles.
Am J Vet Res 1986 Jul;47(7):1643-8)

Keep in mind, urbanization with more people living in cities with their
cats, and the number of motor vehicles have increased dramatically since
1956, 1974, and 1986. Therefore, these studies grossly underestimate the
current mortality rate and overestimate the life expectancy of outdoor cats
in the 21st century --- and they will only get *worse*.

"Free ranging cats in the United States have an average lifespan in the
general population of only 3 to 5 years; indoor cats have an average
lifespan of 12 years and frequently live longer than 20 years "
Karen L. Overall, M.A., V.M.D., Ph.D.

Diplomate, American College of Veterinary Behavior

Department of Clinical Studies School of Veterinary Medicine University of
Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, In: Epidemiology; Chap 2, pg 5,
Clinical Behavioral Medicine for Small Animals; 1997, Mosby ISBN
0-8016-6820-4. (Dr. Overall's statement is also supported by the above
cited studies)



"The average lifespan of an indoor cat is around twelve to fourteen years,
..while outdoor cats are lucky to reach double digits."
(Excerpted from The Cat Who Cried For Help, Dodman N, Bantam Books, New
York).
Dr. Nicholas Dodman, Professor of Behavioral Pharmacology and Director of
the Behavior Clinic at Tufts University School of Veterinary Medicine and
internationally known specialist in domestic animal behavioral research (and
ironically, a Brit who are usually outdoor fanatics).

Q.E.D.


  #69  
Old September 7th 04, 12:48 AM
Phil P.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Steve G" wrote in message
om...
Fan wrote in message

. ..

The statistics show that an indoor cat lives much longer than an
outdoor one because of the dangers of living outdoors.


Well, no they don't,


Well, yes they do.

because there are (AFAIK)



Apparently, that's not far enough.



no reliable statistics
that detail the longevity of indoor and outdoor cats.



Sure there are! There have been several major studies spanning almost 50
years, conducted in different parts of the country, published in
peer-reviewed veterinary medical and behavior journals and texts, as well as
in peer-reviewed wildlife journals that prove beyond a reasonable doubt
indoor cats generally live *three* to *four* times longer than outdoor cats.
To date *none* of these studies have been refuted.


Feel free to
provide a cite to prove me wrong though...



"A cite"? How about three?

Comfort A,
Maximum ages reached by domestic cats.
J Mammol 37:118-119, 1956

Kolata RJ, Kraut NH, Johnston DE,
Patterns of trauma in urban dogs and cats: a study of 1,000
cases.
J Am Vet Med Assoc 1974 Mar 1;164(5):499-502

Childs JE, Ross L,
Urban cats: characteristics and estimation of mortality due to motor
vehicles.
Am J Vet Res 1986 Jul;47(7):1643-8)

Keep in mind, urbanization with more people living in cities with their
cats, and the number of motor vehicles have increased dramatically since
1956, 1974, and 1986. Therefore, these studies grossly underestimate the
current mortality rate and overestimate the life expectancy of outdoor cats
in the 21st century --- and they will only get *worse*.

"Free ranging cats in the United States have an average lifespan in the
general population of only 3 to 5 years; indoor cats have an average
lifespan of 12 years and frequently live longer than 20 years "
Karen L. Overall, M.A., V.M.D., Ph.D.

Diplomate, American College of Veterinary Behavior

Department of Clinical Studies School of Veterinary Medicine University of
Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, In: Epidemiology; Chap 2, pg 5,
Clinical Behavioral Medicine for Small Animals; 1997, Mosby ISBN
0-8016-6820-4. (Dr. Overall's statement is also supported by the above
cited studies)



"The average lifespan of an indoor cat is around twelve to fourteen years,
..while outdoor cats are lucky to reach double digits."
(Excerpted from The Cat Who Cried For Help, Dodman N, Bantam Books, New
York).
Dr. Nicholas Dodman, Professor of Behavioral Pharmacology and Director of
the Behavior Clinic at Tufts University School of Veterinary Medicine and
internationally known specialist in domestic animal behavioral research (and
ironically, a Brit who are usually outdoor fanatics).

Q.E.D.


  #70  
Old September 7th 04, 11:44 AM
Jeannie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Phil P." wrote in message
...

"Steve G" wrote in message
om...
Fan wrote in message

. ..

The statistics show that an indoor cat lives much longer than an
outdoor one because of the dangers of living outdoors.


Well, no they don't,


Well, yes they do.


98% of all statistics are made up :-)

Statistics can be made to prove anything.


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