Outdoor cat poisoning - report back

"CatNipped" wrote in message
...

SNIP

Having to interact and play with them for hours every day, e.g. making
sure
they get enough exercise to stay healthy - *NOT* just throwing toys down
on
the floor and hoping they'll play with them but actually putting forth
physical effort to keep them entertained enough to get the exercise they
need. Cleaning litterboxes twice a day.

Most people I know who have indoor/outdoor cats don't even open and close
doors for their cats, they get a pet door so they don't have to get off
their lazy.... sorry.

Hugs,

CatNipped


I'm one of those lazy people with a cat door. Mine is set to in only, I
controll when they go out, they can come in when they want... This also
gives them greater protection if being chased by a larger mammal.

I own a cat dancer & several other interactive toys, which I use alot... As
the furrballs aren't allowed out at night, I play with them. Muscat is into
a fetch thing as well... He'll play with a toy mouse, slowly beating it back
to where I am & then wait for me to throw it down the hall.... Very cute.
Chablis seems less into the interactive toys & often just watches as Muscat
& I play. I think it's because she has tasted blood & is FAR more
interested in a warm tasty rodent than a cold one that tastes like cat
spit....

--
Mathew
Butler to 2 kittens: Chablis & Muscat
En Vino Veritas

"Diane L. Schirf" wrote in message
.net...


If they had cites, why don't they provide them? Without cites, it's
anecdotal. That's not an assumption.

Oh yes it is. Anyway, quite frankly, I've had enough of this merry-go-round.
For your information, the only thing in the debate that has made me think
twice about one or two of my beliefs was that site, because it contained
balanced, reasoned arguments, outlining pros and cons of both approaches.
That's the sort of information I tend to take notice of.

"CatNipped" wrote in
:

What is up with the ad hominem attacks on this group??? We disagree.
That doesn't make me irresponsible, thick-headed, or lazy.

No, of course it doesn't. What makes a person irresponsible,
thick-headed and lazy is when sometging has been shown to them to
cause harm to someone they love, but they do it anyway because it's
convenient.


Ok, I'm done now. I don't wish to argue or discuss with people who aren't
respectful to me or others.

--
Catherine
& Rosalie the calico

"ceb" wrote in message
...
"CatNipped" wrote in
:

"ceb" wrote in message
...
"CatNipped" wrote in
:

Really? Please ask your cat to write to me and tell me how much
happier she is by getting to go outside. Oh, she can't write? Then
please ask her to call and tell me how much happier she is by
getting to go outside. What's that? She can't speak either? Then
please, pray tell, how do you know that she is happier than if she
were to stay inside? How has she told you that she understands, has
weighed, and accepts the risks of going outside.


Well, she sits by the door and cries to be let out. On nice days she
cries extra. She flies out the door when I open it for her. She stays
out for a while sometimes and is clearly enjoying herself.

Gee, when my kids were toddlers they cried for candy and didn't want
to eat their vegetables. Eating candy, they clearly enjoyed
themselves. Silly me worrying about their nutrition and their health
when I should have been giving them what they cried for so they could
be happy.

Candy AND vegetables are both important.

No, actually, they're *not*. In fact, candy was particularly *BAD* for my
children - they were on a special diet and never got candy. They did,
however, love fruit, and that didn't make them sick, or fat, or give them a
belly ache. To this day they don't like candy because they've never
developed a taste for it - and my daughter has had three children and still
wears a size -1 (that *negative* one!!!) jeans!


When they were youngsters they cried that they didn't want to go to
school. They clearly enjoyed staying home and playing instead. How
cruel of me to *force* them to go, I made them terribly unhappy by
doing so.

Playing AND going to school are both important.

Of course, supervised playing is very important - playing in traffic is
deadly.


When they were teenagers they whined and complained about not being
able to stay out late or smoke or drink or do drugs - that's what they
*wanted* to do, that's what would have made them *happy*!!

Partying AND sleeping are both important.

OK, you're not seriously advocating teenagers smoking, drinking or doing
drugs here are you???!! Well, given your stance on "risk taking", maybe you
are, but you sure did undermine any further arguments you may have had!!!


It's such a shame that they turned out to be such happy, healthy
(never been sick a day in their lives, never had a cavity), productive
adults with happy families and good careers. I just didn't have
anybody to tell me how wrong I was to make them so unhappy!

I am not advocating letting the cat do whatever she wants, whenever she
wants (as I
mentioned in the paragraph below). I am advocating something more like
"yes, you can
have candy sometimes; you can play sometimes; you can party sometimes."


Now, I wouldn't let her do whatever she wants just because she cries.
After Madeline's surgery, she cried at the door A LOT and I didn't
let her out because she was still recovering.

Rosalie lived the first 3 years of her life outside.

Nickleby was indoor-only and was a very happy cat.

I am not saying anything about the decisions you make for your cats.
I don't really see this as a moral issue about which there is a right
and a wrong. All along I have just been trying to explain that it is
possible to *adore* one's cats and make a different decision about
the whole indoor/outdoor question. You seem to disagree.

Yes I disagree, simply because I would never knowingly put someone I
love in harm's way. when you love someone you do what's *best* for
them, not simply what makes them happy. I wouldn't let my toddlers
*or* my cats play in traffic!

Sometimes what's best for us IS doing what makes us happy. That's actually
true a lot,
IMO.

And sometimes what makes us happy makes us dead - sorry I'd rather be alive
and unhappy!

Hugs,

CatNipped

--
Catherine
& Rosalie the calico

SNIP
When they were teenagers they whined and complained about not being
able to stay out late or smoke or drink or do drugs - that's what they
*wanted* to do, that's what would have made them *happy*!!

Partying AND sleeping are both important.

OK, you're not seriously advocating teenagers smoking, drinking or doing
drugs here are you???!! Well, given your stance on "risk taking", maybe
you
are, but you sure did undermine any further arguments you may have had!!!
SNIP

"I'm not advocating the use of drugs, sex or violence... But, I must say,
it's always worked for me" - Dr. Hunter S. Thompson


Hmmm... What's that in my cheek?
--
Mathew
Butler to 2 kittens: Chablis & Muscat
En Vino Veritas

"CatNipped" wrote in
:

Having to interact and play with them for hours every day, e.g. making
sure they get enough exercise to stay healthy - *NOT* just throwing
toys down on the floor and hoping they'll play with them but actually
putting forth physical effort to keep them entertained enough to get
the exercise they need. Cleaning litterboxes twice a day.

Do you know me at all? You're making a lot of incorrect assumptions here.
I spend a lot of time with my animals, nearly all my free time in fact,
and I play and snuggle a lot with Rosalie. I have helped her over the
last year to become a lap cat, from her beginnings as a feral cat. I
scoop out the litterbox several times a day, not that that's anyone's
business.

Rosalie's favorite toy is an interactive toy, and we play with it daily.


Most people I know who have indoor/outdoor cats don't even open and
close doors for their cats, they get a pet door so they don't have to
get off their lazy.... sorry.


I have no strong objection to cat doors and the people I know who have
them aren't lazy. What's wrong with making something more convenient?
When I fence in my yard, I may get a pet door. I haven't decided yet.

--
Catherine
& Zoe & Queenie
& Rosalie the calico

Suddenly, without warning, Ashley exclaimed (4/5/2005 2:57 AM):
"Meghan Noecker" wrote in message
...

On Tue, 5 Apr 2005 12:53:31 +1200, "Ashley"
wrote:



You still don't get it, do you? I am not in the United States. My cats do
not face the dangers cats in the United States face. The world outside
your
borders is different.


Is New Zealand a bubble?



Ecologically? Yes. Read the links I posted.



Honestly, there are areas in the US that are just as remote as where
you live, and I wouldn't let my cat outside there either.


And they have US ecology.


Well, the ecology differs depending on where in the US you are.
Certainly, some areas have predators that are a danger to cats, but some
do not.

FWIW, here's my 2 cents worth.

I am an American. My first cat, Mouse, was indoors when I lived in town
in Wyoming. When we moved to a house way out in the country, on a
dirt road, she was indoor/outdoor. There were no large predators to
threaten her, so it was safe enough. When we moved back East, she
became an indoor cat again.

Now I have Meep. For all 8 years, and through 3 different countries
(US, England and Australia) she has been an indoor cat. In England, the
country of her birth, it is because I again live in a town, with loads
of roads around. I've seen dead cats (and tons of dead wildlife) on the
roads in the neighborhood. Most of our neighbors' cats are outdoor, as
that's the British culture. My other consideration with Meep is that
she's not exactly the bravest cat on the block, and would probably be
beat up by any passing moggie. She does go outside in the fenced back
yard, when we are home.

In Australia, she also was 'outside only under supervision', but for
different reasons. Being a British cat, I wasn't sure she had the
survival skills for our hot desert environment. We had extremely deadly
snakes around (though I know cats are rarely bitten by snakes). We also
had a bearded dragon that was bigger than Meep, and which I've heard
fighting with a neighbor's feisty cat - no idea who started the fights
(I suspect it was the cat), or who won. So, that was environment and
potentially dangerous predators.

All this blathering just means, I don't think it's a black-and-white
issue. It's a matter of environment. If we are blessed with a healthy
Meep when we move back to Wyoming, on our 50+ acres, she can go outside
whenever she wants in the summer, but will (probably by choice) be an
indoor cat during the bitter winters.

I do find it interesting that here in England, cats are outdoor animals,
and dogs are indoor animals. In the US, cats are indoor animals and
dogs are outdoor animals. A gross generalization, of course, but just
one of many small differences in our cultures.

jmc

"CatNipped" wrote in message
...

Can you cite me those studies please? I'd be interested in looking at
them because everything I've ever read claims that kids today are
healthier and heartier than ever before in our history.

Not the studies themselves, but plenty of cites :-). It is just a
hypothesis, but it is a widely held one, and from what I've read appears to
be growing stronger.

http://news-service.stanford.edu/new.../research.html

http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/h...ish_595740.htm

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/...?oneclick=true

http://www.everyoung-gh.com/library/health-dirt.html

"kaeli" wrote in message
...
In article ,
enlightened us with...


http://www.fabcats.org/inorout.html

The best of both worlds
A purpose built outdoor enclosure could provide your cat with the sights
and
smells of the outside world and give his life some variety without
exposing
him to many of the outdoor risks.

This is EXACTLY what I would love to do if I had a house.

I think that article has a lot of valid points, especially for the
audience
it is written for (UK).
But one thing they're missing is that many of the behavior problems they
posit are the result of not going outside are actually problems due to the
cat not getting enough mental and physical stimulation. That's the owner's
fault. A cat can be perfectly happy indoors provided the owners actually
take
the time and energy to enrich the cat's life. It has little to do with
going
outside per se and everything to do with being bored to tears.

I think that's probably a very valid point. But let's be entirely realistic
here - how many cat owners are so singularly devoted to their cats that they
put that time and energy in? No value judgements, just realism. Given that
cats are mostly seen as pets, not as primary emotional interests,
recommendations on how to care for them should be aimed at what the majority
will actually do, rather than what those who are most emotionally attached
to their cats will do, with or without recommendations from anyone.

"ceb" wrote in message
...
"CatNipped" wrote in
:

Having to interact and play with them for hours every day, e.g. making
sure they get enough exercise to stay healthy - *NOT* just throwing
toys down on the floor and hoping they'll play with them but actually
putting forth physical effort to keep them entertained enough to get
the exercise they need. Cleaning litterboxes twice a day.

Do you know me at all? You're making a lot of incorrect assumptions here.
I spend a lot of time with my animals, nearly all my free time in fact,
and I play and snuggle a lot with Rosalie. I have helped her over the
last year to become a lap cat, from her beginnings as a feral cat. I
scoop out the litterbox several times a day, not that that's anyone's
business.

Rosalie's favorite toy is an interactive toy, and we play with it daily.

Actually, no, I don't know you at all - I don't even know what you've
posted, historically, in this group. I wasn't even claiming that you didn't
do all of that, I was simply responding to the question you've asked (which
you snipped so I'll repost it here): "How does it take extra time and effort
to keep them inside? I found that having an inside-only cat was much easier
than letting the cat out, opening and closing doors, keeping an eye on
things, etc etc." That was my answer, not my ascertation that that's what
you do or don't do. However, the phrase, "Me thinks you doth protest to
much" *does* come to mind! ;


Most people I know who have indoor/outdoor cats don't even open and
close doors for their cats, they get a pet door so they don't have to
get off their lazy.... sorry.


I have no strong objection to cat doors and the people I know who have
them aren't lazy. What's wrong with making something more convenient?
When I fence in my yard, I may get a pet door. I haven't decided yet.

Again, you asked, I answered! You have my permission to ignore all the good
advice here and do whatever you like, I'm just really sorry that it may be
that your cats will suffer for it, that's all!

Hugs,

CatNipped

--
Catherine
& Zoe & Queenie
& Rosalie the calico