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Totally OT. China



 
 
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  #11  
Old December 30th 09, 01:23 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes
Cheryl[_5_]
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Posts: 955
Default Totally OT. China

Joe Dee wrote:
On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 11:57:06 -0500, Christina Websell wrote
(in article ):

They have just executed a Brit got bringing in drugs and he has bi-polar and
allegedy he was told he was going there to be a pop star.

I don't know if that's true, but we are now zilch with China.

Tweed



After the poisoning of pet food, the poisoning of toothpaste, the poisoning
of intant formula - to name a few poisonings - and the lead-paint in
children's toys and all the human rights violations, I want nothing more to
do with China or anything Chinese until they get their act together.

Some are saying relations have suffered? Relations should be severed.

I've been following the story of this poor chap, and I'm still dumbfounded
that, with all the publicity and all the evidence pointing to his lack of
understanding of what he was doing and what he was accused of, the camel's
back has been broken.


Well, you can certainly protest to China and boycott Chinese products.
But if you intend to travel, it would be an excellent idea to remember
that when you are in a foreign country, you are under their laws, and
subject to their punishments and their rulings on whether you are sane
enough to stand trial and be punished. All governments are supposed to
notify your ambassador if they have one of his/her citizens under
criminal charges, although sometimes that doesn't get done, and about
all the ambassador can and usually will do is to send some official to
ensure that you have whatever access to a lawyer the local law requires.
If you are high profile or have a big campaign back home, the
authorities might lobby a bit to try to get you sent home after
conviction, but there's no guarantee it will work. That's the way the
world works.

I was mildly surprised to see that (unlike other countries) they haven't
been executing Westerners recently. They execute their own - they've
executed at least two people in the infant formula poisoning case - and
just based on that, it's a country I'd treat with extreme caution,
especially when moving across the border, making sure I had only my own
belongings with me and no one had had a chance to slip anything in.

--
Cheryl
  #12  
Old December 30th 09, 02:03 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes
Cheryl[_5_]
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Posts: 955
Default Totally OT. China

Jack Campin - bogus address wrote:
They have just executed a Brit got bringing in drugs and he has
bi-polar and allegedy he was told he was going there to be a pop star.

Well, you can certainly protest to China and boycott Chinese products.
But if you intend to travel, it would be an excellent idea to remember
that when you are in a foreign country, you are under their laws, and
subject to their punishments and their rulings on whether you are sane
enough to stand trial and be punished.


If you're insane you aren't very likely to take that on board. (You've
basically described the logic of "Catch-22", where insanity was an excuse
to get out of the army but anyone who wanted to use it had ipso facto
demonstrated their sanity and thereby had no excuse).


That was partly my point. What 'counts' as insanity in the legal sense,
and to what degree it can be used as a defense in legal matters varies
considerably from place to place.

I know too few of the details in this case, but I can easily imagine
someone who wasn't mentally ill enough to be protected from himself in
Canada or the UK or the US still being sane enough to be convicted and
punished in many other countries of the world. There's no international
consensus on what level and degree of mental illness eliminates criminal
responsibility.

The central idea of 'Catch-22' worked as well as it did because it
demonstrated how an incomplete understanding of mental illness combined
with the requirements of daily life led to unexpected consequences. That
still happens - with every poor soul on the street freezing and abused
and refusing medication, who can't be kept warm and safe and fed because
it would abuse his rights, and with people who function well enough,
mostly, to avoid catastrophe until they end up past their limits and
dead after they charge a cop with an axe. Or commit a capital offence.

The saddest cases are those in which the family members have been
desperately trying for decades to avoid tragedy; to get their relative
treated. And they fail, because once the relative is of age, they have
no more control. I know about the abuses this situation was set up to
avoid - it's just the unintended consequences, again. And I don't know
if this man was such a person. The people I've known with manic
depression or whatever they're calling it now, couldn't have organized,
much less paid for, a trip to the other side of the world, but of course
severity and responsiveness to treatment vary enormously.

snip

--
Cheryl
  #13  
Old December 30th 09, 11:25 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes
Lesley[_3_]
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Posts: 378
Default Totally OT. China

On Dec 29, 3:36*pm, wrote:


That said, the number of executions in the US doesn't even come close
to the number done in China.


Apparently in China you can be executed for tax evasion.....or
fraud ....over here that could lead to some very interesting scenes in
Parliament but whilst I am inclined to deal harshly with our MP's
perhaps not that harshly

Lesley

Slave of the Fabulous Furballs
  #14  
Old December 30th 09, 11:59 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes
Christina Websell[_2_]
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Posts: 885
Default Totally OT. China


"Lesley" wrote in message
...
On Dec 29, 3:36 pm, wrote:


That said, the number of executions in the US doesn't even come close
to the number done in China.


Apparently in China you can be executed for tax evasion.....or
fraud ....over here that could lead to some very interesting scenes in
Parliament but whilst I am inclined to deal harshly with our MP's
perhaps not that harshly

Lesley

Did you actually take on board what I said? China has executed a Brit and
that is very serious. More than serious. It is so not allowed to execute a
Brit since we had the good sense to make capital punishment illegal since
the 1950's












  #15  
Old December 31st 09, 12:28 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes
Cheryl[_5_]
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Posts: 955
Default Totally OT. China

Christina Websell wrote:
"Lesley" wrote in message
...
On Dec 29, 3:36 pm, wrote:

That said, the number of executions in the US doesn't even come close
to the number done in China.


Apparently in China you can be executed for tax evasion.....or
fraud ....over here that could lead to some very interesting scenes in
Parliament but whilst I am inclined to deal harshly with our MP's
perhaps not that harshly

Lesley

Did you actually take on board what I said? China has executed a Brit and
that is very serious. More than serious. It is so not allowed to execute a
Brit since we had the good sense to make capital punishment illegal since
the 1950's


British laws apply in Britain. Chinese laws apply in China.

--
Cheryl
  #16  
Old December 31st 09, 12:56 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes
Christina Websell[_2_]
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Posts: 885
Default Totally OT. China


"Cheryl" wrote in message
...
Christina Websell wrote:
"Lesley" wrote in message
...
On Dec 29, 3:36 pm, wrote:

That said, the number of executions in the US doesn't even come close
to the number done in China.


Apparently in China you can be executed for tax evasion.....or
fraud ....over here that could lead to some very interesting scenes in
Parliament but whilst I am inclined to deal harshly with our MP's
perhaps not that harshly

Lesley

Did you actually take on board what I said? China has executed a Brit
and that is very serious. More than serious. It is so not allowed to
execute a Brit since we had the good sense to make capital punishment
illegal since the 1950's


British laws apply in Britain. Chinese laws apply in China.


I don't think it's allowed to execute a foreign citizen and I think you'll
find Britain is more than annoyed about this.

Tweed





  #17  
Old December 31st 09, 01:05 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes
Joy
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Posts: 7,086
Default Totally OT. China

"Christina Websell" wrote in message
...

"Cheryl" wrote in message
...
Christina Websell wrote:
"Lesley" wrote in message
...
On Dec 29, 3:36 pm, wrote:

That said, the number of executions in the US doesn't even come close
to the number done in China.

Apparently in China you can be executed for tax evasion.....or
fraud ....over here that could lead to some very interesting scenes in
Parliament but whilst I am inclined to deal harshly with our MP's
perhaps not that harshly

Lesley

Did you actually take on board what I said? China has executed a Brit
and that is very serious. More than serious. It is so not allowed to
execute a Brit since we had the good sense to make capital punishment
illegal since the 1950's


British laws apply in Britain. Chinese laws apply in China.


I don't think it's allowed to execute a foreign citizen and I think you'll
find Britain is more than annoyed about this.

Tweed


Not allowed by whom? A lot of countries do it.

Joy


  #18  
Old December 31st 09, 01:06 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes
Cheryl[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 955
Default Totally OT. China

Christina Websell wrote:
"Cheryl" wrote in message
...
Christina Websell wrote:
"Lesley" wrote in message
...
On Dec 29, 3:36 pm, wrote:

That said, the number of executions in the US doesn't even come close
to the number done in China.
Apparently in China you can be executed for tax evasion.....or
fraud ....over here that could lead to some very interesting scenes in
Parliament but whilst I am inclined to deal harshly with our MP's
perhaps not that harshly

Lesley

Did you actually take on board what I said? China has executed a Brit
and that is very serious. More than serious. It is so not allowed to
execute a Brit since we had the good sense to make capital punishment
illegal since the 1950's

British laws apply in Britain. Chinese laws apply in China.


I don't think it's allowed to execute a foreign citizen and I think you'll
find Britain is more than annoyed about this.

Tweed


I am sure Britain is furious about it, but I'm also sure you'll find
out, if you look into it, that the laws of a country apply to all people
in that country - including foreigners. The only exception I know of is
people who have diplomatic immunity. Everyone else answers to local law.

--
Cheryl
  #19  
Old December 31st 09, 01:14 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes
Takayuki
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,818
Default Totally OT. China

"Christina Websell" wrote:
Did you actually take on board what I said? China has executed a Brit and
that is very serious. More than serious. It is so not allowed to execute a
Brit since we had the good sense to make capital punishment illegal since
the 1950's


The syntax here is a bit confusing - I think it's more accurate to say
that the U.K. government is statutorily prohibited from executing
people. So for example, I'm not a Brit, but I cannot be executed
under British jurisdiction. I am currently in the U.S. and can
certainly be executed here though, but hopefully, I won't be.

The treatment of the mentally ill by authorities is tricky here too. A
few years ago, my good friend who was mentally ill was arrested while
camping, for carrying a weapon - a hunting knife. He was released
without his equipment, whereupon he died of exposure and hypothermia.
  #20  
Old December 31st 09, 01:20 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes
Kyla `=^..^=`[_2_]
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Posts: 107
Default Totally OT. China


"Christina Websell"

"Cheryl"
Christina Websell wrote:
"Lesley" On Dec 29, 3:36 pm, bast

That said, the number of executions in the US doesn't even come close
to the number done in China.

Apparently in China you can be executed for tax evasion.....or
fraud ....over here that could lead to some very interesting scenes in
Parliament but whilst I am inclined to deal harshly with our MP's
perhaps not that harshly

Lesley

Did you actually take on board what I said? China has executed a Brit
and that is very serious. More than serious. It is so not allowed to
execute a Brit since we had the good sense to make capital punishment
illegal since the 1950's


British laws apply in Britain. Chinese laws apply in China.


I don't think it's allowed to execute a foreign citizen and I think you'll
find Britain is more than annoyed about this.

Tweed


The Brits have a total right to bed annoyed or even upset.
Our enemies in the Mid East are executing people all the time...
do they care?? Nope!! No sleep lost there.
I hate war of any kind and we should all get the hell out of
there and let them solve their own problems.
Viet Nam was so sick, so was the Gulf War, WW2, and all the others.
I wish the USA would stop being the so called
'peacekeepers' of the whole freaking World.
Kyla







 




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