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#11
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Totally OT. China
Joe Dee wrote:
On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 11:57:06 -0500, Christina Websell wrote (in article ): They have just executed a Brit got bringing in drugs and he has bi-polar and allegedy he was told he was going there to be a pop star. I don't know if that's true, but we are now zilch with China. Tweed After the poisoning of pet food, the poisoning of toothpaste, the poisoning of intant formula - to name a few poisonings - and the lead-paint in children's toys and all the human rights violations, I want nothing more to do with China or anything Chinese until they get their act together. Some are saying relations have suffered? Relations should be severed. I've been following the story of this poor chap, and I'm still dumbfounded that, with all the publicity and all the evidence pointing to his lack of understanding of what he was doing and what he was accused of, the camel's back has been broken. Well, you can certainly protest to China and boycott Chinese products. But if you intend to travel, it would be an excellent idea to remember that when you are in a foreign country, you are under their laws, and subject to their punishments and their rulings on whether you are sane enough to stand trial and be punished. All governments are supposed to notify your ambassador if they have one of his/her citizens under criminal charges, although sometimes that doesn't get done, and about all the ambassador can and usually will do is to send some official to ensure that you have whatever access to a lawyer the local law requires. If you are high profile or have a big campaign back home, the authorities might lobby a bit to try to get you sent home after conviction, but there's no guarantee it will work. That's the way the world works. I was mildly surprised to see that (unlike other countries) they haven't been executing Westerners recently. They execute their own - they've executed at least two people in the infant formula poisoning case - and just based on that, it's a country I'd treat with extreme caution, especially when moving across the border, making sure I had only my own belongings with me and no one had had a chance to slip anything in. -- Cheryl |
#12
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Totally OT. China
Jack Campin - bogus address wrote:
They have just executed a Brit got bringing in drugs and he has bi-polar and allegedy he was told he was going there to be a pop star. Well, you can certainly protest to China and boycott Chinese products. But if you intend to travel, it would be an excellent idea to remember that when you are in a foreign country, you are under their laws, and subject to their punishments and their rulings on whether you are sane enough to stand trial and be punished. If you're insane you aren't very likely to take that on board. (You've basically described the logic of "Catch-22", where insanity was an excuse to get out of the army but anyone who wanted to use it had ipso facto demonstrated their sanity and thereby had no excuse). That was partly my point. What 'counts' as insanity in the legal sense, and to what degree it can be used as a defense in legal matters varies considerably from place to place. I know too few of the details in this case, but I can easily imagine someone who wasn't mentally ill enough to be protected from himself in Canada or the UK or the US still being sane enough to be convicted and punished in many other countries of the world. There's no international consensus on what level and degree of mental illness eliminates criminal responsibility. The central idea of 'Catch-22' worked as well as it did because it demonstrated how an incomplete understanding of mental illness combined with the requirements of daily life led to unexpected consequences. That still happens - with every poor soul on the street freezing and abused and refusing medication, who can't be kept warm and safe and fed because it would abuse his rights, and with people who function well enough, mostly, to avoid catastrophe until they end up past their limits and dead after they charge a cop with an axe. Or commit a capital offence. The saddest cases are those in which the family members have been desperately trying for decades to avoid tragedy; to get their relative treated. And they fail, because once the relative is of age, they have no more control. I know about the abuses this situation was set up to avoid - it's just the unintended consequences, again. And I don't know if this man was such a person. The people I've known with manic depression or whatever they're calling it now, couldn't have organized, much less paid for, a trip to the other side of the world, but of course severity and responsiveness to treatment vary enormously. snip -- Cheryl |
#13
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Totally OT. China
On Dec 29, 3:36*pm, wrote:
That said, the number of executions in the US doesn't even come close to the number done in China. Apparently in China you can be executed for tax evasion.....or fraud ....over here that could lead to some very interesting scenes in Parliament but whilst I am inclined to deal harshly with our MP's perhaps not that harshly Lesley Slave of the Fabulous Furballs |
#14
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Totally OT. China
"Lesley" wrote in message ... On Dec 29, 3:36 pm, wrote: That said, the number of executions in the US doesn't even come close to the number done in China. Apparently in China you can be executed for tax evasion.....or fraud ....over here that could lead to some very interesting scenes in Parliament but whilst I am inclined to deal harshly with our MP's perhaps not that harshly Lesley Did you actually take on board what I said? China has executed a Brit and that is very serious. More than serious. It is so not allowed to execute a Brit since we had the good sense to make capital punishment illegal since the 1950's |
#15
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Totally OT. China
Christina Websell wrote:
"Lesley" wrote in message ... On Dec 29, 3:36 pm, wrote: That said, the number of executions in the US doesn't even come close to the number done in China. Apparently in China you can be executed for tax evasion.....or fraud ....over here that could lead to some very interesting scenes in Parliament but whilst I am inclined to deal harshly with our MP's perhaps not that harshly Lesley Did you actually take on board what I said? China has executed a Brit and that is very serious. More than serious. It is so not allowed to execute a Brit since we had the good sense to make capital punishment illegal since the 1950's British laws apply in Britain. Chinese laws apply in China. -- Cheryl |
#16
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Totally OT. China
"Cheryl" wrote in message ... Christina Websell wrote: "Lesley" wrote in message ... On Dec 29, 3:36 pm, wrote: That said, the number of executions in the US doesn't even come close to the number done in China. Apparently in China you can be executed for tax evasion.....or fraud ....over here that could lead to some very interesting scenes in Parliament but whilst I am inclined to deal harshly with our MP's perhaps not that harshly Lesley Did you actually take on board what I said? China has executed a Brit and that is very serious. More than serious. It is so not allowed to execute a Brit since we had the good sense to make capital punishment illegal since the 1950's British laws apply in Britain. Chinese laws apply in China. I don't think it's allowed to execute a foreign citizen and I think you'll find Britain is more than annoyed about this. Tweed |
#17
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Totally OT. China
"Christina Websell" wrote in message
... "Cheryl" wrote in message ... Christina Websell wrote: "Lesley" wrote in message ... On Dec 29, 3:36 pm, wrote: That said, the number of executions in the US doesn't even come close to the number done in China. Apparently in China you can be executed for tax evasion.....or fraud ....over here that could lead to some very interesting scenes in Parliament but whilst I am inclined to deal harshly with our MP's perhaps not that harshly Lesley Did you actually take on board what I said? China has executed a Brit and that is very serious. More than serious. It is so not allowed to execute a Brit since we had the good sense to make capital punishment illegal since the 1950's British laws apply in Britain. Chinese laws apply in China. I don't think it's allowed to execute a foreign citizen and I think you'll find Britain is more than annoyed about this. Tweed Not allowed by whom? A lot of countries do it. Joy |
#18
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Totally OT. China
Christina Websell wrote:
"Cheryl" wrote in message ... Christina Websell wrote: "Lesley" wrote in message ... On Dec 29, 3:36 pm, wrote: That said, the number of executions in the US doesn't even come close to the number done in China. Apparently in China you can be executed for tax evasion.....or fraud ....over here that could lead to some very interesting scenes in Parliament but whilst I am inclined to deal harshly with our MP's perhaps not that harshly Lesley Did you actually take on board what I said? China has executed a Brit and that is very serious. More than serious. It is so not allowed to execute a Brit since we had the good sense to make capital punishment illegal since the 1950's British laws apply in Britain. Chinese laws apply in China. I don't think it's allowed to execute a foreign citizen and I think you'll find Britain is more than annoyed about this. Tweed I am sure Britain is furious about it, but I'm also sure you'll find out, if you look into it, that the laws of a country apply to all people in that country - including foreigners. The only exception I know of is people who have diplomatic immunity. Everyone else answers to local law. -- Cheryl |
#19
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Totally OT. China
"Christina Websell" wrote:
Did you actually take on board what I said? China has executed a Brit and that is very serious. More than serious. It is so not allowed to execute a Brit since we had the good sense to make capital punishment illegal since the 1950's The syntax here is a bit confusing - I think it's more accurate to say that the U.K. government is statutorily prohibited from executing people. So for example, I'm not a Brit, but I cannot be executed under British jurisdiction. I am currently in the U.S. and can certainly be executed here though, but hopefully, I won't be. The treatment of the mentally ill by authorities is tricky here too. A few years ago, my good friend who was mentally ill was arrested while camping, for carrying a weapon - a hunting knife. He was released without his equipment, whereupon he died of exposure and hypothermia. |
#20
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Totally OT. China
"Christina Websell" "Cheryl" Christina Websell wrote: "Lesley" On Dec 29, 3:36 pm, bast That said, the number of executions in the US doesn't even come close to the number done in China. Apparently in China you can be executed for tax evasion.....or fraud ....over here that could lead to some very interesting scenes in Parliament but whilst I am inclined to deal harshly with our MP's perhaps not that harshly Lesley Did you actually take on board what I said? China has executed a Brit and that is very serious. More than serious. It is so not allowed to execute a Brit since we had the good sense to make capital punishment illegal since the 1950's British laws apply in Britain. Chinese laws apply in China. I don't think it's allowed to execute a foreign citizen and I think you'll find Britain is more than annoyed about this. Tweed The Brits have a total right to bed annoyed or even upset. Our enemies in the Mid East are executing people all the time... do they care?? Nope!! No sleep lost there. I hate war of any kind and we should all get the hell out of there and let them solve their own problems. Viet Nam was so sick, so was the Gulf War, WW2, and all the others. I wish the USA would stop being the so called 'peacekeepers' of the whole freaking World. Kyla |
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