Totally OT. China

"Cheryl"
Jack Campin - bogus address wrote:
They have just executed a Brit got bringing in drugs and he has
bi-polar and allegedy he was told he was going there to be a pop star.
Well, you can certainly protest to China and boycott Chinese products.
But if you intend to travel, it would be an excellent idea to remember
that when you are in a foreign country, you are under their laws, and
subject to their punishments and their rulings on whether you are sane
enough to stand trial and be punished.

If you're insane you aren't very likely to take that on board. (You've
basically described the logic of "Catch-22", where insanity was an excuse
to get out of the army but anyone who wanted to use it had ipso facto
demonstrated their sanity and thereby had no excuse).

That was partly my point. What 'counts' as insanity in the legal sense,
and to what degree it can be used as a defense in legal matters varies
considerably from place to place.

I know too few of the details in this case, but I can easily imagine
someone who wasn't mentally ill enough to be protected from himself in
Canada or the UK or the US still being sane enough to be convicted and
punished in many other countries of the world. There's no international
consensus on what level and degree of mental illness eliminates criminal
responsibility.

The central idea of 'Catch-22' worked as well as it did because it
demonstrated how an incomplete understanding of mental illness combined
with the requirements of daily life led to unexpected consequences. That
still happens - with every poor soul on the street freezing and abused and
refusing medication, who can't be kept warm and safe and fed because it
would abuse his rights, and with people who function well enough, mostly,
to avoid catastrophe until they end up past their limits and dead after
they charge a cop with an axe. Or commit a capital offence.

The saddest cases are those in which the family members have been
desperately trying for decades to avoid tragedy; to get their relative
treated. And they fail, because once the relative is of age, they have no
more control. I know about the abuses this situation was set up to avoid -
it's just the unintended consequences, again. And I don't know if this man
was such a person. The people I've known with manic depression or whatever
they're calling it now, couldn't have organized, much less paid for, a
trip to the other side of the world, but of course severity and
responsiveness to treatment vary enormously.

snip

--
Cheryl

All I have to add to all of this mess is ...wow...what a mess.

Kyla

On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 19:20:56 -0500, Kyla `=^..^=` wrote
(in article ):

I wish the USA would stop being the so called
'peacekeepers' of the whole freaking World.

Amen. Let's get our own house in order.

--
Ketzl's Dad

"Christina Websell" wrote in message
...

"Cheryl" wrote in message
...
Christina Websell wrote:
"Lesley" wrote in message
...
On Dec 29, 3:36 pm, wrote:

That said, the number of executions in the US doesn't even come
close
to the number done in China.

Apparently in China you can be executed for tax evasion.....or
fraud ....over here that could lead to some very interesting
scenes in
Parliament but whilst I am inclined to deal harshly with our MP's
perhaps not that harshly

Lesley

Did you actually take on board what I said? China has executed a
Brit and that is very serious. More than serious. It is so not
allowed to execute a Brit since we had the good sense to make
capital punishment illegal since the 1950's

British laws apply in Britain. Chinese laws apply in China.


I don't think it's allowed to execute a foreign citizen and I think
you'll find Britain is more than annoyed about this.

Tweed

Of course they are. But when you leave your own country and travel
to another, you are subject to their laws and punishments. Any
government that enforces capital punishment is going to apply it to
all criminals, not just their own citizens.

It does get a bit iffy in that extradition agreements are usually two
way and often will not apply for more severe penalties than the
country where the criminal is located.

Jo

"Joe Dee"
On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 19:20:56 -0500, Kyla `=^..^=` wrote
(in article

I wish the USA would stop being the so called
'peacekeepers' of the whole freaking World.

Amen. Let's get our own house in order.

--
Ketzl's Dad

We should do that first, IMO.

Mosey's Meowmie

"Jofirey"

"Christina Websell"

"Cheryl" Christina Websell wrote:
"Lesley" On Dec 29, 3:36 pm, bastXXXe

That said, the number of executions in the US doesn't even come close
to the number done in China.

Apparently in China you can be executed for tax evasion.....or
fraud ....over here that could lead to some very interesting scenes in
Parliament but whilst I am inclined to deal harshly with our MP's
perhaps not that harshly

Lesley

Did you actually take on board what I said? China has executed a Brit
and that is very serious. More than serious. It is so not allowed to
execute a Brit since we had the good sense to make capital punishment
illegal since the 1950's

British laws apply in Britain. Chinese laws apply in China.


I don't think it's allowed to execute a foreign citizen and I think
you'll find Britain is more than annoyed about this.

Tweed

Of course they are. But when you leave your own country and travel to
another, you are subject to their laws and punishments. Any government
that enforces capital punishment is going to apply it to all criminals,
not just their own citizens.

It does get a bit iffy in that extradition agreements are usually two way
and often will not apply for more severe penalties than the country where
the criminal is located.

Jo

Sort of takes the fun out of traveling, dunnit?

Kyla
--who is happy to just stay put.

"Kyla `=^..^=`" wrote in message
...

"Jofirey"

"Christina Websell"

"Cheryl" Christina Websell wrote:
"Lesley" On Dec 29, 3:36 pm, bastXXXe

That said, the number of executions in the US doesn't even
come close
to the number done in China.

Apparently in China you can be executed for tax evasion.....or
fraud ....over here that could lead to some very interesting
scenes in
Parliament but whilst I am inclined to deal harshly with our
MP's
perhaps not that harshly

Lesley

Did you actually take on board what I said? China has executed
a Brit and that is very serious. More than serious. It is so
not allowed to execute a Brit since we had the good sense to
make capital punishment illegal since the 1950's

British laws apply in Britain. Chinese laws apply in China.


I don't think it's allowed to execute a foreign citizen and I
think you'll find Britain is more than annoyed about this.

Tweed

Of course they are. But when you leave your own country and
travel to another, you are subject to their laws and punishments.
Any government that enforces capital punishment is going to apply
it to all criminals, not just their own citizens.

It does get a bit iffy in that extradition agreements are usually
two way and often will not apply for more severe penalties than
the country where the criminal is located.

Jo

Sort of takes the fun out of traveling, dunnit?

Not if you are willing to abide by the laws of the place you visit.
Really not an awful lot to ask is it?

Jo

On Dec 30, 8:32*pm, "Kyla `=^..^=`" wrote:
"Jofirey"







"Christina Websell"

"Cheryl" Christina Websell wrote:
"Lesley" On Dec 29, 3:36 pm, bastXXXe

That said, the number of executions in the US doesn't even come close
to the number done in China.

Apparently in China you can be executed for tax evasion.....or
fraud ....over here that could lead to some very interesting scenes in
Parliament but whilst I am inclined to deal harshly with our MP's
perhaps not that harshly

Lesley

Did you actually take on board what I said? *China has executed a Brit
and that is very serious. More than serious. *It is so not allowed to
execute a Brit since we had the good sense to make capital punishment
illegal since the 1950's

British laws apply in Britain. Chinese laws apply in China.

I don't think it's allowed to execute a foreign citizen and I think
you'll find Britain is more than annoyed about this.

Tweed

Of course they are. *But when you leave your own country and travel to
another, you are subject to their laws and punishments. *Any government
that enforces capital punishment is going to apply it to all criminals,
not just their own citizens.

It does get a bit iffy in that extradition agreements are usually two way
and often will not apply for more severe penalties than the country where
the criminal is located.

Jo

Sort of takes the fun out of traveling, dunnit?

Kyla

I don't know about that, but it certainly takes the fun out of
smuggling
heroin into China.

Sherry

Kyla `=^..^=` wrote:


The Brits have a total right to bed annoyed or even upset.
Our enemies in the Mid East are executing people all the time...
do they care?? Nope!! No sleep lost there.
I hate war of any kind and we should all get the hell out of
there and let them solve their own problems.
Viet Nam was so sick, so was the Gulf War, WW2, and all the others.
I wish the USA would stop being the so called
'peacekeepers' of the whole freaking World.
Kyla


How are your German, Japanese, and Arabic? I don't recall the US
starting any of those wars and I do recall them ending, with the help of
just about every free country in the world, both fronts of WWII and The
Gulf War.

And Rob says you're welcome for the sacrifice he has made so that you
can write this.

Pam S.

Kyla `=^..^=` wrote:
"Jofirey"
"Christina Websell"
"Cheryl" Christina Websell wrote:
"Lesley" On Dec 29, 3:36 pm, bastXXXe

That said, the number of executions in the US doesn't even come close
to the number done in China.
Apparently in China you can be executed for tax evasion.....or
fraud ....over here that could lead to some very interesting scenes in
Parliament but whilst I am inclined to deal harshly with our MP's
perhaps not that harshly

Lesley

Did you actually take on board what I said? China has executed a Brit
and that is very serious. More than serious. It is so not allowed to
execute a Brit since we had the good sense to make capital punishment
illegal since the 1950's
British laws apply in Britain. Chinese laws apply in China.


I don't think it's allowed to execute a foreign citizen and I think
you'll find Britain is more than annoyed about this.

Tweed
Of course they are. But when you leave your own country and travel to
another, you are subject to their laws and punishments. Any government
that enforces capital punishment is going to apply it to all criminals,
not just their own citizens.

It does get a bit iffy in that extradition agreements are usually two way
and often will not apply for more severe penalties than the country where
the criminal is located.

Jo

Sort of takes the fun out of traveling, dunnit?

Kyla
--who is happy to just stay put.



Only if you like to commit crimes.

Pam S.

Christina Websell wrote:
"Cheryl" wrote in message
...
Christina Websell wrote:
"Lesley" wrote in message
...
On Dec 29, 3:36 pm, wrote:

That said, the number of executions in the US doesn't even come close
to the number done in China.
Apparently in China you can be executed for tax evasion.....or
fraud ....over here that could lead to some very interesting scenes in
Parliament but whilst I am inclined to deal harshly with our MP's
perhaps not that harshly

Lesley

Did you actually take on board what I said? China has executed a Brit
and that is very serious. More than serious. It is so not allowed to
execute a Brit since we had the good sense to make capital punishment
illegal since the 1950's
British laws apply in Britain. Chinese laws apply in China.


I don't think it's allowed to execute a foreign citizen and I think you'll
find Britain is more than annoyed about this.

Tweed





You have some very strange ideas, Tweed. Personally I find capital
punishment barbaric but all countries have their own laws however unjust.

--
Adrian (Owned by Snoopy, Bagheera & Shadow)
Cats leave pawprints on your heart
http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk