is this normal?

wrote in message
...

Nobody likes a netdick.

Christina was doing a great job hanging herself. If you must kick
someone, make it someone who is not already down. Obnoxious? You bet.
Pathetic? Absolutely. We did not need a Google study to see that. Your
time would be better spent doing ... just about anything at all.

Rosefan wrote:
Nobody likes a netdick.
snip Mary's netdicking

Mary, did it ever occur to you that your obsession with coming after me
at every perceived opportunity has so far served no purpose other than
to make you look foolish? If not, it should. You prove only that you're
a bitter person with an agenda, especially when you defend such vile
people as Christina with the sole purpose of criticizing me.

Megan



"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."

-Edmund Burke

Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
http://www.stopdeclaw.com

Zuzu's Cats Photo Album:
http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22

"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one
elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and
splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then
providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision,
raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and
material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his
way."

- W.H. Murray

Rosefan wrote:
Nobody likes a netdick.
snip Mary's netdicking

Mary, did it ever occur to you that your obsession with coming after me
at every perceived opportunity has so far served no purpose other than
to make you look foolish? If not, it should. You prove only that you're
a bitter person with an agenda, especially when you defend such vile
people as Christina with the sole purpose of criticizing me.

Megan



"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."

-Edmund Burke

Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
http://www.stopdeclaw.com

Zuzu's Cats Photo Album:
http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22

"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one
elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and
splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then
providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision,
raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and
material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his
way."

- W.H. Murray

"Laura R." wrote in message
.. .
circa Mon, 16 Feb 2004 23:44:10 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav,
Priscilla Ballou ) said,
There is NOTHING that triggers my anger more than someone who takes me
for a
liar.
I can't believe I said all that on a public newsgroup. Gosh.

Don't worry about it. You aren't the first person driven to rage by
him, and you won't be the last.

Too true.

Now, about setting up a killfile... I can't tell what newsreader you're
using. The instructions will vary depending on what program you're
reading with. What do you use to read and post?

She's using Outlook Express. I think she can right-click his name and
choose "Block sender" or something like that, but it has been so long
since I touched OE...

Laura

--
I am Dyslexia of Borg,
Your ass will be laminated.

Using Outlook Express, she can block senders by clicking on "Message" in the
toolbar (at the top of the screen), then click on Block Senders. However,
there is no warning ... I just experimented with your message, and you were
immediately blocked! Now I have to go back in an undo my "work."

MaryL

"Laura R." wrote in message
.. .
circa Mon, 16 Feb 2004 23:44:10 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav,
Priscilla Ballou ) said,
There is NOTHING that triggers my anger more than someone who takes me
for a
liar.
I can't believe I said all that on a public newsgroup. Gosh.

Don't worry about it. You aren't the first person driven to rage by
him, and you won't be the last.

Too true.

Now, about setting up a killfile... I can't tell what newsreader you're
using. The instructions will vary depending on what program you're
reading with. What do you use to read and post?

She's using Outlook Express. I think she can right-click his name and
choose "Block sender" or something like that, but it has been so long
since I touched OE...

Laura

--
I am Dyslexia of Borg,
Your ass will be laminated.

Using Outlook Express, she can block senders by clicking on "Message" in the
toolbar (at the top of the screen), then click on Block Senders. However,
there is no warning ... I just experimented with your message, and you were
immediately blocked! Now I have to go back in an undo my "work."

MaryL

Christina wrote:
snip
Ummmm...Christina...I hate to have to make you look stupid again, but a
picture of someone that only shows their eyes and an old hairstyle is
not going to do much WRT identification purposes.

I see, however, that you have no argument with the points I made
regarding you, but how could you when you know it's the truth. I really
hope you get some help, kick your addictions and deal with the
psychosis, because you are self destructing in front of the whole world
as we speak, and that can't be pleasant for you or your family.

Megan



"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."

-Edmund Burke

Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
http://www.stopdeclaw.com

Zuzu's Cats Photo Album:
http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22

"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one
elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and
splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then
providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision,
raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and
material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his
way."

- W.H. Murray

Christina wrote:
snip
Ummmm...Christina...I hate to have to make you look stupid again, but a
picture of someone that only shows their eyes and an old hairstyle is
not going to do much WRT identification purposes.

I see, however, that you have no argument with the points I made
regarding you, but how could you when you know it's the truth. I really
hope you get some help, kick your addictions and deal with the
psychosis, because you are self destructing in front of the whole world
as we speak, and that can't be pleasant for you or your family.

Megan



"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."

-Edmund Burke

Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
http://www.stopdeclaw.com

Zuzu's Cats Photo Album:
http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22

"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one
elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and
splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then
providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision,
raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and
material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his
way."

- W.H. Murray

olitter (PawsForThought) wrote in message ...
From: (-L.)

Now I hope you can also rethink your statement that a woman's purpose
in life on Earth is to have babies. That statement basically was a
slap in the face to every childless woman - those either childless by
choice or to those who are infertile. Many women can and *do* have a
complete, whole, fruitful, wonderful, rich life, full of experiences
*without ever bearing children*.

For those who want to and are able to have children, either through
birth or adoption, children *should be* the "icing on the cake" of
their life. But parenthood isn't for everyone, nor should it be.
Every child deserves to be wanted, loved, and provided for adequately
by parents who are stable emotionally and financially - not just bred
because its parents *could*.

-L.

Well said! I personally prefer the term "childfree" instead of childless

Lauren

They're actually different terms. Childless refers to anyone who is
without offspring, by choice or not.

Childfree refers to those childless by choice and also refers to an
actual political movement. By default, the childfree are childless,
but the childless are not necessarily childfree.

Of course if you meant that you prefer "childfree" as an expression of
your own personal stance, you obviously get it.

-L.

olitter (PawsForThought) wrote in message ...
From: (-L.)

Now I hope you can also rethink your statement that a woman's purpose
in life on Earth is to have babies. That statement basically was a
slap in the face to every childless woman - those either childless by
choice or to those who are infertile. Many women can and *do* have a
complete, whole, fruitful, wonderful, rich life, full of experiences
*without ever bearing children*.

For those who want to and are able to have children, either through
birth or adoption, children *should be* the "icing on the cake" of
their life. But parenthood isn't for everyone, nor should it be.
Every child deserves to be wanted, loved, and provided for adequately
by parents who are stable emotionally and financially - not just bred
because its parents *could*.

-L.

Well said! I personally prefer the term "childfree" instead of childless

Lauren

They're actually different terms. Childless refers to anyone who is
without offspring, by choice or not.

Childfree refers to those childless by choice and also refers to an
actual political movement. By default, the childfree are childless,
but the childless are not necessarily childfree.

Of course if you meant that you prefer "childfree" as an expression of
your own personal stance, you obviously get it.

-L.

I don't know when or why, but she had some bad experiences with show
breeders, so in her mind, there were show breeders/kitten mills

For the record, I am against breeding of any kind.
But to lay down the definitions, as I understand them--show breeders are very
different from kitten mills. Show breeders are generally versed in genetics,
and breed to improve (according to breed standards--I really hate to use the
word "improve") their line of cats. They generally also don't make money at
it...often they lose money and are mostly in the business as a hobby and are
very passionate about it. They also usually sell kittens with a contract
outlining various clauses and conditions to the sale of the kittens.
(relinquished only to breeder, no declaw, must neuter, etc.)
Kitten millers are a whole different ball game. It's a money-making business,
nothing more. There's no concern for genetics, the welfare of the cats, or
where the kittens end up. They're usually sold only wholesale, and shipped out.
The breeding stock spends their entire lives in cages. "Pedigrees" are somewhat
dubious, as registration papers are easily transferred to different cats or
otherwise faked. And as with any money-making business, as soon as the breeding
stock are bred past their capabilities, they are destroyed. They will
occasionally advertise kittens for sale in the newspaper, but will offer to
meet you in a predetermined parking lot or such, since the conditions of the
cattery aren't fit for you to see.
The backyard breeder falls somewhere in between. It's sometimes people who
simply aquire a registered mommy cat and a daddy cat, decide to have babies and
make tons of money. They aren't educated about genetics and require no
contracts.
Other people's definitions may vary. That's just myunderstanding from what I
see here.
My Frank is a Balinese kitten mill rescue, gotten from a filthy house full of
Siamese cats/kittens. He sounds *exactly* like Maynard. He is terrified of
everything and timid. So it could be behavior common to the breed. He squeals
and runs at *everything.*
Siamese cats, from the ones I've seen at the shelter, have a myriad of
opportunities for genetic problems. Kinked tails, crossed eyes are only a
couple, and they're basically not serious health issues--not like the
predisposition to cardiac problems, hip problems, kidney disease that some
breeds have. I'm not well-versed at all in genetics, so I am not sure whether
Siamese are one of those breeds.
I'm sure you mom does love her cats and takes good care of their needs. I truly
hope you can persuade her to stop breeding though. Good luck.
Sherry

and
there were backyard breeders. She believed that show breeders kept
their cats in cages, and they were just bred for profit. She believed
that backyard breeders were the people who truly cared for their
animals. She also believed it was healthier for a cat to have at
least one litter. I know this is a common myth - did vets used to
think this?

I grew up with this being normal. My first cat, Fiona, was the
daughter of my sister's cat. She had one litter herself, but she
wasn't a good mother and was fixed after that. I think I was 5 when
she had her litter. My oldest cat, Maynard, is the son of my mom's
cat. That time, she had planned a breeding, but the cat chewed through
a screen window the night before and spent the night in the garage
with a Sylvester looking cat. My youngest, Kira, is the daughter of
two of my mom's cats. My nephew's cat was given to him by a friend
with farm cats.

As you can see, growing up, I had a very positive view of backyard
breeders. I thought my mom was very caring, certainly loved the cats,
and she wasn't selling them for very much. Extremely cheap considering
the rates I see in the newspapers. And of course, I benefited
personally, since all 3 of my cats have come from these litters.

I didn't begin to question this at all until after getting Kira. When
my mom offered her to me, it was with the understanding that she would
breed Kira in the future. At the time, that seemed fine with me.

Then a new situation came up. Kira's mother, a normally sweet cat,
turned ugly toward Maynard. He's afraid of kittens, took one look at
them, squealed and ran. She started attacking him after that. From
there, it got worse, until she was attacking him on sight, and he was
hiding all the time. After several months of this getting worse, I
completely seperated them, then spent a few months slowly conditioning
them (don't run, don't attack), and then reintroduced them very
slowly. It worked, and they were able to be together again.

But it got me worrying. I already knew that Kira's father was
neurotic. This cat was very sweet, but very jealous of any other
animal. He did a lot of pacing like a caged animal, and he would spray
like crazy, even after he was fixed. We tried valium, femail hormones,
and something else (can't remember the name). Nothing worked. So, we
have a nuerotic father, and the mother turned demon after having
kittens.

What would I do if Kira did the same thing after kittens? Maynard will
always squeal and run when he sees kittens, so what would I do if my
beloved Kira attacked my beloved Maynard? I could never chose between
the two. So, I had to prevent her from being bred.

I had agreed to breed Kira, so I needed to get out of that agreement
as well as get a ride to the vet to have her fixed. I did my research
by coming to these newsgroups and asking for all the reasons why we
should not breed.

I came up with several arguments to give my mother:

Healthier longterm never to have any litters. Even one litter
increases the risks.

Responsible breeders can give a health guarantee. They also know the
lines of both mother and father. I was able to give a good example
with this one since Kira is actually a Balinese. Both mother and
father had the long haired recessive gene, but neither one showed it.
If we could breed this without knowing, then how many other unseen
issues could be hiding in their genes. We'd been lucky with very
healthy animals and that Kira's unusual gene was not health related.

I presented a lot of arguments against breeding her, and by that time,
I realized that my mom's view of backyard and show breeders was
completely wrong. I could understand where she was coming from, but I
knew it was based on myths and bad experiences. Not true facts.

In the end, I don't know which argument won her over. It seemed like
the the only one she believed was the idea that Kira would be
protective of a litter and go after Maynard like her mother did. But
not only did she agree to let me fix Kira, but she opted to have her
own cat fixed at the same time (after only one litter), and she has
never bred another animal since. That was 10 years ago.

So, yes, people do change. People do see the error of their ways and
quit doing it. While the purpose of my research was to prevent a cat
behavior problem, I ended up learning a lot of about a people behavior
problem. I educated myself and my family. And I continue to try and
educate others.

Sometimes, the past really is the past. And things we did in the past
are things we do not support today. We can change. And when somebody
does change, please do not hold the past against them.


Meghan & the Zoo Crew
Equine and Pet Photography
http://www.zoocrewphoto.com