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#11
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Wendy wrote:
"Philip" wrote in message ink.net... -L. wrote: ElvisRocks wrote: Hi all - I am getting two more kittens (Cali & Randi are fine now so now I'm able to add to my family) from the same shelter I got Cali, but they are in foster care - about 3 months old - two boys. They are not neutered yet; what is the general age they do this now? When I got Randi he was done at 9 weeks before I got him. I'm getting them the end of the week. One is a longhair gray and the other is black & white. They're so cute - both males. Carol G;aad you are adding to your family. They can be safely neutered now, as long as they weigh 2 lbs. They have to weigh at least that much to be developmentally ready to handle anesthesia. -L. It's instructive to note that women cat owners lop off a cats balls as soon as the cat can stand the anesthesia while male cat owners perfer to wait until the first yowls of mating occur. Funny that difference. Wonder how much of this is owner projection? Well this woman cat owner doesn't fit your stereotype. I wait till my girls are 6 mos and the boys 7 (or obviously sexually mature earlier) before getting them neutered. I had never heard of very young kittens being neutered until just recently so I guess it's a case of old dogs, new tricks and all that. I'll wait for a generation of cats to be neutered young and see what the long term effects are before risking my own. But that's just me. W Your "girls" have balls (testicles)? I am developing an opinion that *very* *early* sterilization gets vets more customers, hence more revenue, (2)may well increase veterinary business later on from unrinary tract issues like blockages, (3)and is promoted in the interest of the greater good. (argh). |
#12
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Slimpickins wrote:
Philip Wrote: It's instructive to note that women cat owners lop off a cats balls as soon as the cat can stand the anesthesia while male cat owners perfer to wait until the first yowls of mating occur. Funny that difference. Wonder how much of this is owner projection? *** Not true. I'm a female..and proud :-). Please don't generalize about us, Philip, because that's not cool. Just like I'd be tempted to write, based on newspaper headlines, (local & national) that males are just aggressive bullies and murderers who have no anger control and they usually take out their frustrations on female partners and/or other nearby males. Do I know that this is Not* true for all* males out there..absolutely! Thank God. ML I have and do make the generalization. If only to observe this forum, you will see this is so. |
#13
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-L. wrote:
Wendy wrote: Well this woman cat owner doesn't fit your stereotype. I wait till my girls are 6 mos and the boys 7 (or obviously sexually mature earlier) before getting them neutered. I had never heard of very young kittens being neutered until just recently so I guess it's a case of old dogs, new tricks and all that. Nope, you're just out of the loop. I'll wait for a generation of cats to be neutered young and see what the long term effects are before risking my own. It's been done for 25+ years, IIRC. Study after study has shown early S/N to be safe. Here are just a few: Kustritz MV. Early spay-neuter: clinical considerations. Clin Tech Small Anim Pract. 2002 Aug;17(3):124-8. Kustritz MV. Early spay-neuter in the dog and cat. Vet Clin North Am Small Anim Pract. 1999 Jul;29(4):935-43, vii. Hoskins JD. Pediatric health care and management. Vet Clin North Am Small Anim Pract. 1999 Jul;29(4):837-52, v. Stubbs WP, Bloomberg MS. Implications of early neutering in the dog and cat. Semin Vet Med Surg (Small Anim). 1995 Feb;10(1):8-12. Howe LM. Short-term results and complications of prepubertal gonadectomy in cats and dogs.J Am Vet Med Assoc. 1997 Jul 1;211(1):57-62. Johnston SD. Questions and answers on the effects of surgically neutering dogs and cats. J Am Vet Med Assoc. 1991 Apr 1;198(7):1206-14. Kahler S. Spaying/neutering comes of age. J Am Vet Med Assoc. 1993 Sep 1;203(5):591-3. Lieberman LL. A case for neutering pups and kittens at two months of age. J Am Vet Med Assoc. 1987 Sep 1;191(5):518-21. Erratum in: J Am Vet Med Assoc 1987 Nov 1;191(9):1118. Phillips I. In favor of pediatric neutering. Can Vet J. 1998 Jul;39(7):397. Lieberman LL. The optimum time for neutering surgery of dogs and cats. Vet Rec. 1988 Apr 9;122(15):369. Gourley J. When to spay. Vet Rec. 1987 Oct 17;121(16):384. Okkens AC, Kooistra HS, Nickel RF. [Comparison of long term side effects of ovariectomy versus ovariohisterectomy in the bitch] Tijdschr Diergeneeskd. 2002 Jun 1;127(11):369-72. Dutch. There is no reason to wait until a puppy or kitten is sexually mature. In fact, some types of cancers such as mammary and ovarian cancer are thought to be triggered or exascerbated by gonadotrophins. -L. Yeah and the American Medical Association goes hot and cold on everything from aspirin to cholesterol to coffee to Zynax. ;^) I for one am not buying the 2 pound rule (crap) about when to neuter a cat. Yeah I've read here it is more about the anesthesia safety than the castration so .... were it not for the anesthesia issue, vets would neuter earlier? Why not just bring about sterile cats! Guess that could be the next thing with cloning. |
#14
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"Philip" wrote
I am developing an opinion that *very* *early* sterilization gets vets more customers, hence more revenue, (2)may well increase veterinary business later on from unrinary tract issues like blockages, (3)and is promoted in the interest of the greater good. (argh). Oh please. My one cat that did have blockage issues was neutered at 6 months, the "proper" time to neuter. Early spay/neuter *is* for the greater good. If you wait until 6 months to get a cat spayed/neutered, the females can already be in heat and the males sexually mature, and next thing you know, you've got a litter of kittens. If you spay/neuter at 2 lbs, there is no risk of this happening. BTW, have you ever seen a cat recover from a spay? The little kittens that are spayed early recover much more quickly and pain free. -- -Kelly |
#15
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"Wendy" wrote
Well this woman cat owner doesn't fit your stereotype. I wait till my girls are 6 mos and the boys 7 (or obviously sexually mature earlier) before getting them neutered. I had never heard of very young kittens being neutered until just recently so I guess it's a case of old dogs, new tricks and all that. I'll wait for a generation of cats to be neutered young and see what the long term effects are before risking my own. But that's just me. W There have already been several generations of cats that were spayed/neutered early. What are you waiting for? -- -Kelly |
#16
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"Philip" wrote
I am developing an opinion that *very* *early* sterilization gets vets more customers, hence more revenue, (2)may well increase veterinary business later on from unrinary tract issues like blockages, (3)and is promoted in the interest of the greater good. (argh). Oh yeah, and most vets *don't* do early spay/neuter, for whatever reason. I haven't figured that one out yet. At least in this area, I only know of a few that do. So that blows your stupid vets do it for the money theory. -- -Kelly |
#17
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KellyH wrote:
"Philip" wrote I am developing an opinion that *very* *early* sterilization gets vets more customers, hence more revenue, (2)may well increase veterinary business later on from unrinary tract issues like blockages, (3)and is promoted in the interest of the greater good. (argh). Oh yeah, and most vets *don't* do early spay/neuter, for whatever reason. I haven't figured that one out yet. At least in this area, I only know of a few that do. So that blows your stupid vets do it for the money theory. M developing theory is still sound. Around here, vets DO push for sterilization ASAP. A package deal of shots and sterization for $200+ is common. I've heard this from 4 vets personally and through several members at our church. It's as much a money grab as it is "for the greater good." Kelly ... it is LARGELY about the money when you bottom line it. Veterinary is a business. Every vet has payroll and rent to meet, not to mention insurances and taxes. When income is less than payout, eventually you go broke. And face it, vets are in business to stay in business. You have to sell ('educate') your customer by appealing to their emotions so they feel obliged to fork over a couple hundred dollars every time they walk in the door. |
#18
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"Philip" wrote
Kelly ... it is LARGELY about the money when you bottom line it. Veterinary is a business. Every vet has payroll and rent to meet, not to mention insurances and taxes. When income is less than payout, eventually you go broke. And face it, vets are in business to stay in business. You have to sell ('educate') your customer by appealing to their emotions so they feel obliged to fork over a couple hundred dollars every time they walk in the door. Yes, I know vets have a business to run and they have to make money. I know the difference in price as to what a vaccine really costs and what a vet typically charges. And that they often push vaccs you don't need, want you to get boosters more frequently than necessary, etc. When it comes to early spay/neuter, I don't buy that vets are doing it to knowingly cause cats to become blocked later down the road. That is ridiculous. -- -Kelly |
#19
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KellyH wrote:
"Philip" wrote Kelly ... it is LARGELY about the money when you bottom line it. Veterinary is a business. Every vet has payroll and rent to meet, not to mention insurances and taxes. When income is less than payout, eventually you go broke. And face it, vets are in business to stay in business. You have to sell ('educate') your customer by appealing to their emotions so they feel obliged to fork over a couple hundred dollars every time they walk in the door. Yes, I know vets have a business to run and they have to make money. I know the difference in price as to what a vaccine really costs and what a vet typically charges. And that they often push vaccs you don't need, want you to get boosters more frequently than necessary, etc. When it comes to early spay/neuter, I don't buy that vets are doing it to knowingly cause cats to become blocked later down the road. That is ridiculous. Only rediculous to you because your value system does not have business overhead to pay. Only rediculous to you because you are not thinking of how CREATING a need that you can fill for your "customers" can provide a lucrative revenue stream. Follow the money trail, Kelly. |
#20
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"Philip" wrote
Only rediculous to you because your value system does not have business overhead to pay. Only rediculous to you because you are not thinking of how CREATING a need that you can fill for your "customers" can provide a lucrative revenue stream. Follow the money trail, Kelly. No, I don't think a vet would knowingly put a cat's life in danger. Urinary tract blockages can be fatal. By your reasoning, wouldn't it make more sense to do s/n later, or not at all, to create more customers, aka cats? -- -Kelly |
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