Outside the box frustration - Update

Hi all,

I thought I'd get back to you to note my frustration has not abated...
sigh...

I told you my cat (3.5 years) started pooping outside the box about 2 months
ago. She only did it downstairs in the back room where 1 box is (2 more are
upstairs). I tried moving the 3rd box upstairs to the spare bedroom where
the other boxes are. That was a mistake, because now she does the outside
the box thing on the carpet in that spare room.

In answer to potential questions or questions that came up before..

Since I last posted I have tried different depths of litter, added an extra
box, and sprayed this "Keep away" stuff on the rug - nothing seems to deter
her from leaving me a solid little "surprise"

She just went to the vet and is in good shape. The vet says it's likely
behavioral and "isn't it at least good it's easy to clean up?"

The poop is healthy looking "soft formed stool"

NOTHING changed around here. We got a new cat a year ago and those 2 get
along great.

The other 2 cats seem to ignore she does this stuff, which has gone from
happening once a week to happening about every other day.

She is the most 'cuddly' of my cats, and I pet her and sleep with her and
THINK I treat her well...

I am now so discouraged I am only trying to get her to poop outside the box
downstairs again. At least that was in a back basement room (though note, I
do have my home office downstairs, so I am there EVERY day), as opposed to
on the rug upstairs.

Generally, the situation has only gotten worse. I really want to not freak
on this, but when I see that sh** on the floor, I find myself very MAD
anymore, and I don't like that either...

Please note. I want to give a bit of info that only cat lovers might even
listen to... Lia (the "bad" girl) is IMHO the alpha cat here, but also the
most into sitting on my lap, being petted, following me around, etc. She is
SO much pushier than the other two, eats the treats first, licks up all the
hairball meds first, etc. Her litter mate, Jack, is skittish, though she
will let me pet her at arms length, or sit on my lap nervously IF Lia is not
in the room. Our newest girl, Sam, who was out on her own for her whole
first year, won't let me touch her. So I have an odd little mix here. Not
your usual cuddly baby lovey cats. BUT Lia is the one who is so lovey, so..
why would she be "acting out" at this moment in time?

I know there are no miracles, but I'd love any advice to make this stop.

PattyC

On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 23:16:22 GMT, "PattyC"
wrote:

Hi all,

I thought I'd get back to you to note my frustration has not abated...
sigh...

I told you my cat (3.5 years) started pooping outside the box about 2 months
ago. She only did it downstairs in the back room where 1 box is (2 more are
upstairs). I tried moving the 3rd box upstairs to the spare bedroom where
the other boxes are. That was a mistake, because now she does the outside
the box thing on the carpet in that spare room.

In answer to potential questions or questions that came up before..

Since I last posted I have tried different depths of litter, added an extra
box, and sprayed this "Keep away" stuff on the rug - nothing seems to deter
her from leaving me a solid little "surprise"

She just went to the vet and is in good shape. The vet says it's likely
behavioral and "isn't it at least good it's easy to clean up?"

The poop is healthy looking "soft formed stool"

NOTHING changed around here. We got a new cat a year ago and those 2 get
along great.

The other 2 cats seem to ignore she does this stuff, which has gone from
happening once a week to happening about every other day.

She is the most 'cuddly' of my cats, and I pet her and sleep with her and
THINK I treat her well...

I am now so discouraged I am only trying to get her to poop outside the box
downstairs again. At least that was in a back basement room (though note, I
do have my home office downstairs, so I am there EVERY day), as opposed to
on the rug upstairs.

Generally, the situation has only gotten worse. I really want to not freak
on this, but when I see that sh** on the floor, I find myself very MAD
anymore, and I don't like that either...

Please note. I want to give a bit of info that only cat lovers might even
listen to... Lia (the "bad" girl) is IMHO the alpha cat here, but also the
most into sitting on my lap, being petted, following me around, etc. She is
SO much pushier than the other two, eats the treats first, licks up all the
hairball meds first, etc. Her litter mate, Jack, is skittish, though she
will let me pet her at arms length, or sit on my lap nervously IF Lia is not
in the room. Our newest girl, Sam, who was out on her own for her whole
first year, won't let me touch her. So I have an odd little mix here. Not
your usual cuddly baby lovey cats. BUT Lia is the one who is so lovey, so..
why would she be "acting out" at this moment in time?

I know there are no miracles, but I'd love any advice to make this stop.

PattyC


Perhaps she wants to be an "only" cat. She may seek extra attention
by doing this.

On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 23:16:22 GMT, "PattyC"
wrote:

Hi all,

I thought I'd get back to you to note my frustration has not abated...
sigh...

I told you my cat (3.5 years) started pooping outside the box about 2 months
ago. She only did it downstairs in the back room where 1 box is (2 more are
upstairs). I tried moving the 3rd box upstairs to the spare bedroom where
the other boxes are. That was a mistake, because now she does the outside
the box thing on the carpet in that spare room.

In answer to potential questions or questions that came up before..

Since I last posted I have tried different depths of litter, added an extra
box, and sprayed this "Keep away" stuff on the rug - nothing seems to deter
her from leaving me a solid little "surprise"

She just went to the vet and is in good shape. The vet says it's likely
behavioral and "isn't it at least good it's easy to clean up?"

The poop is healthy looking "soft formed stool"

NOTHING changed around here. We got a new cat a year ago and those 2 get
along great.

The other 2 cats seem to ignore she does this stuff, which has gone from
happening once a week to happening about every other day.

She is the most 'cuddly' of my cats, and I pet her and sleep with her and
THINK I treat her well...

I am now so discouraged I am only trying to get her to poop outside the box
downstairs again. At least that was in a back basement room (though note, I
do have my home office downstairs, so I am there EVERY day), as opposed to
on the rug upstairs.

Generally, the situation has only gotten worse. I really want to not freak
on this, but when I see that sh** on the floor, I find myself very MAD
anymore, and I don't like that either...

Please note. I want to give a bit of info that only cat lovers might even
listen to... Lia (the "bad" girl) is IMHO the alpha cat here, but also the
most into sitting on my lap, being petted, following me around, etc. She is
SO much pushier than the other two, eats the treats first, licks up all the
hairball meds first, etc. Her litter mate, Jack, is skittish, though she
will let me pet her at arms length, or sit on my lap nervously IF Lia is not
in the room. Our newest girl, Sam, who was out on her own for her whole
first year, won't let me touch her. So I have an odd little mix here. Not
your usual cuddly baby lovey cats. BUT Lia is the one who is so lovey, so..
why would she be "acting out" at this moment in time?

I know there are no miracles, but I'd love any advice to make this stop.

PattyC


Perhaps she wants to be an "only" cat. She may seek extra attention
by doing this.

"m. L. Briggs" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 23:16:22 GMT, "PattyC"
wrote:

Hi all,

I thought I'd get back to you to note my frustration has not abated...
sigh...

I told you my cat (3.5 years) started pooping outside the box about 2
months
ago. She only did it downstairs in the back room where 1 box is (2 more
are
upstairs). I tried moving the 3rd box upstairs to the spare bedroom
where
the other boxes are. That was a mistake, because now she does the
outside
the box thing on the carpet in that spare room.

In answer to potential questions or questions that came up before..

Since I last posted I have tried different depths of litter, added an
extra
box, and sprayed this "Keep away" stuff on the rug - nothing seems to
deter
her from leaving me a solid little "surprise"

She just went to the vet and is in good shape. The vet says it's likely
behavioral and "isn't it at least good it's easy to clean up?"

The poop is healthy looking "soft formed stool"

NOTHING changed around here. We got a new cat a year ago and those 2 get
along great.

The other 2 cats seem to ignore she does this stuff, which has gone from
happening once a week to happening about every other day.

She is the most 'cuddly' of my cats, and I pet her and sleep with her and
THINK I treat her well...

I am now so discouraged I am only trying to get her to poop outside the
box
downstairs again. At least that was in a back basement room (though
note, I
do have my home office downstairs, so I am there EVERY day), as opposed
to
on the rug upstairs.

Generally, the situation has only gotten worse. I really want to not
freak
on this, but when I see that sh** on the floor, I find myself very MAD
anymore, and I don't like that either...

Please note. I want to give a bit of info that only cat lovers might
even
listen to... Lia (the "bad" girl) is IMHO the alpha cat here, but also
the
most into sitting on my lap, being petted, following me around, etc. She
is
SO much pushier than the other two, eats the treats first, licks up all
the
hairball meds first, etc. Her litter mate, Jack, is skittish, though she
will let me pet her at arms length, or sit on my lap nervously IF Lia is
not
in the room. Our newest girl, Sam, who was out on her own for her whole
first year, won't let me touch her. So I have an odd little mix here.
Not
your usual cuddly baby lovey cats. BUT Lia is the one who is so lovey,
so..
why would she be "acting out" at this moment in time?

I know there are no miracles, but I'd love any advice to make this stop.

PattyC


Perhaps she wants to be an "only" cat. She may seek extra attention
by doing this.

I hear you, but.. why did she not feel that way six months ago or a year
ago? (And how did she know that I'd know that she is the culprit???
Actually, it took me a few weeks to know who it was, though I was always
thinking it was her....) Have I spoiled her too much? I don't want to pay
a behaviorist but wonder if there is some clue as to how I might act that
could influence HER????

PattyC

"m. L. Briggs" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 23:16:22 GMT, "PattyC"
wrote:

Hi all,

I thought I'd get back to you to note my frustration has not abated...
sigh...

I told you my cat (3.5 years) started pooping outside the box about 2
months
ago. She only did it downstairs in the back room where 1 box is (2 more
are
upstairs). I tried moving the 3rd box upstairs to the spare bedroom
where
the other boxes are. That was a mistake, because now she does the
outside
the box thing on the carpet in that spare room.

In answer to potential questions or questions that came up before..

Since I last posted I have tried different depths of litter, added an
extra
box, and sprayed this "Keep away" stuff on the rug - nothing seems to
deter
her from leaving me a solid little "surprise"

She just went to the vet and is in good shape. The vet says it's likely
behavioral and "isn't it at least good it's easy to clean up?"

The poop is healthy looking "soft formed stool"

NOTHING changed around here. We got a new cat a year ago and those 2 get
along great.

The other 2 cats seem to ignore she does this stuff, which has gone from
happening once a week to happening about every other day.

She is the most 'cuddly' of my cats, and I pet her and sleep with her and
THINK I treat her well...

I am now so discouraged I am only trying to get her to poop outside the
box
downstairs again. At least that was in a back basement room (though
note, I
do have my home office downstairs, so I am there EVERY day), as opposed
to
on the rug upstairs.

Generally, the situation has only gotten worse. I really want to not
freak
on this, but when I see that sh** on the floor, I find myself very MAD
anymore, and I don't like that either...

Please note. I want to give a bit of info that only cat lovers might
even
listen to... Lia (the "bad" girl) is IMHO the alpha cat here, but also
the
most into sitting on my lap, being petted, following me around, etc. She
is
SO much pushier than the other two, eats the treats first, licks up all
the
hairball meds first, etc. Her litter mate, Jack, is skittish, though she
will let me pet her at arms length, or sit on my lap nervously IF Lia is
not
in the room. Our newest girl, Sam, who was out on her own for her whole
first year, won't let me touch her. So I have an odd little mix here.
Not
your usual cuddly baby lovey cats. BUT Lia is the one who is so lovey,
so..
why would she be "acting out" at this moment in time?

I know there are no miracles, but I'd love any advice to make this stop.

PattyC


Perhaps she wants to be an "only" cat. She may seek extra attention
by doing this.

I hear you, but.. why did she not feel that way six months ago or a year
ago? (And how did she know that I'd know that she is the culprit???
Actually, it took me a few weeks to know who it was, though I was always
thinking it was her....) Have I spoiled her too much? I don't want to pay
a behaviorist but wonder if there is some clue as to how I might act that
could influence HER????

PattyC

On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 23:56:49 GMT, "PattyC"
wrote:


"m. L. Briggs" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 23:16:22 GMT, "PattyC"
wrote:

Hi all,

I thought I'd get back to you to note my frustration has not abated...
sigh...

I told you my cat (3.5 years) started pooping outside the box about 2
months
ago. She only did it downstairs in the back room where 1 box is (2 more
are
upstairs). I tried moving the 3rd box upstairs to the spare bedroom
where
the other boxes are. That was a mistake, because now she does the
outside
the box thing on the carpet in that spare room.

In answer to potential questions or questions that came up before..

Since I last posted I have tried different depths of litter, added an
extra
box, and sprayed this "Keep away" stuff on the rug - nothing seems to
deter
her from leaving me a solid little "surprise"

She just went to the vet and is in good shape. The vet says it's likely
behavioral and "isn't it at least good it's easy to clean up?"

The poop is healthy looking "soft formed stool"

NOTHING changed around here. We got a new cat a year ago and those 2 get
along great.

The other 2 cats seem to ignore she does this stuff, which has gone from
happening once a week to happening about every other day.

She is the most 'cuddly' of my cats, and I pet her and sleep with her and
THINK I treat her well...

I am now so discouraged I am only trying to get her to poop outside the
box
downstairs again. At least that was in a back basement room (though
note, I
do have my home office downstairs, so I am there EVERY day), as opposed
to
on the rug upstairs.

Generally, the situation has only gotten worse. I really want to not
freak
on this, but when I see that sh** on the floor, I find myself very MAD
anymore, and I don't like that either...

Please note. I want to give a bit of info that only cat lovers might
even
listen to... Lia (the "bad" girl) is IMHO the alpha cat here, but also
the
most into sitting on my lap, being petted, following me around, etc. She
is
SO much pushier than the other two, eats the treats first, licks up all
the
hairball meds first, etc. Her litter mate, Jack, is skittish, though she
will let me pet her at arms length, or sit on my lap nervously IF Lia is
not
in the room. Our newest girl, Sam, who was out on her own for her whole
first year, won't let me touch her. So I have an odd little mix here.
Not
your usual cuddly baby lovey cats. BUT Lia is the one who is so lovey,
so..
why would she be "acting out" at this moment in time?

I know there are no miracles, but I'd love any advice to make this stop.

PattyC


Perhaps she wants to be an "only" cat. She may seek extra attention
by doing this.

I hear you, but.. why did she not feel that way six months ago or a year
ago? (And how did she know that I'd know that she is the culprit???
Actually, it took me a few weeks to know who it was, though I was always
thinking it was her....) Have I spoiled her too much? I don't want to pay
a behaviorist but wonder if there is some clue as to how I might act that
could influence HER????

PattyC

I have had no experience with this problem but then I have had "only"
cats. If you are able to pick her up and carry her to her own litter
box every so often, perhaps she would get the idea that is what you
want her to do. This is just an idea I had -- remember, no actual
experience. Best of luck.

On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 23:56:49 GMT, "PattyC"
wrote:


"m. L. Briggs" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 23:16:22 GMT, "PattyC"
wrote:

Hi all,

I thought I'd get back to you to note my frustration has not abated...
sigh...

I told you my cat (3.5 years) started pooping outside the box about 2
months
ago. She only did it downstairs in the back room where 1 box is (2 more
are
upstairs). I tried moving the 3rd box upstairs to the spare bedroom
where
the other boxes are. That was a mistake, because now she does the
outside
the box thing on the carpet in that spare room.

In answer to potential questions or questions that came up before..

Since I last posted I have tried different depths of litter, added an
extra
box, and sprayed this "Keep away" stuff on the rug - nothing seems to
deter
her from leaving me a solid little "surprise"

She just went to the vet and is in good shape. The vet says it's likely
behavioral and "isn't it at least good it's easy to clean up?"

The poop is healthy looking "soft formed stool"

NOTHING changed around here. We got a new cat a year ago and those 2 get
along great.

The other 2 cats seem to ignore she does this stuff, which has gone from
happening once a week to happening about every other day.

She is the most 'cuddly' of my cats, and I pet her and sleep with her and
THINK I treat her well...

I am now so discouraged I am only trying to get her to poop outside the
box
downstairs again. At least that was in a back basement room (though
note, I
do have my home office downstairs, so I am there EVERY day), as opposed
to
on the rug upstairs.

Generally, the situation has only gotten worse. I really want to not
freak
on this, but when I see that sh** on the floor, I find myself very MAD
anymore, and I don't like that either...

Please note. I want to give a bit of info that only cat lovers might
even
listen to... Lia (the "bad" girl) is IMHO the alpha cat here, but also
the
most into sitting on my lap, being petted, following me around, etc. She
is
SO much pushier than the other two, eats the treats first, licks up all
the
hairball meds first, etc. Her litter mate, Jack, is skittish, though she
will let me pet her at arms length, or sit on my lap nervously IF Lia is
not
in the room. Our newest girl, Sam, who was out on her own for her whole
first year, won't let me touch her. So I have an odd little mix here.
Not
your usual cuddly baby lovey cats. BUT Lia is the one who is so lovey,
so..
why would she be "acting out" at this moment in time?

I know there are no miracles, but I'd love any advice to make this stop.

PattyC


Perhaps she wants to be an "only" cat. She may seek extra attention
by doing this.

I hear you, but.. why did she not feel that way six months ago or a year
ago? (And how did she know that I'd know that she is the culprit???
Actually, it took me a few weeks to know who it was, though I was always
thinking it was her....) Have I spoiled her too much? I don't want to pay
a behaviorist but wonder if there is some clue as to how I might act that
could influence HER????

PattyC

I have had no experience with this problem but then I have had "only"
cats. If you are able to pick her up and carry her to her own litter
box every so often, perhaps she would get the idea that is what you
want her to do. This is just an idea I had -- remember, no actual
experience. Best of luck.

In article , pattycnospam4303
@verizon.net enlightened us with...

I told you my cat (3.5 years) started pooping outside the box about 2 months
ago. She only did it downstairs in the back room where 1 box is (2 more are
upstairs). I tried moving the 3rd box upstairs to the spare bedroom where
the other boxes are. That was a mistake, because now she does the outside
the box thing on the carpet in that spare room.

snip


I know there are no miracles, but I'd love any advice to make this stop.


Well, I have two thoughts.

It could be a habit.
Habits, while often begun as a stress reliever, can continue long past
the end of the original stressor. To break bad toilet habits, one has to
start from the beginning. One cat, one box, one room, until she is using
it all the time. The smallest space necessary to force usage. If you
have to crate her for a small time, you have to. It's better than
eventually rehoming her due to your frustration. Cats live in shelters
in cages longer than she'll need to be crated.

Or, it could be that there is something she doesn't like about the boxes
that you haven't identified yet.

Since you said she doesn't do it *every* day, do you know if she just
doesn't defecate daily or if she sometimes *does* use the box?
If she does use it sometimes, *when*? That is key to knowing what she
doesn't like. Does she go only if the box was unused? Does she only go
after another cat has used it? Does she only go if one particular cat
has/hasn't used it yet? Confining her to a separate room with her own
box will tell you if it is something about the other cats' usage she
objects to. If she stops going outside the box when the other cats
aren't sharing, you know that's it. If she doesn't, at least you've
ruled it out and can concentrate on how clean is it, type, etc or other
behavioral causes.

Just my rambling 5 cents...

--
--
~kaeli~
Local Area Network in Australia:... the LAN down under.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace

In article , pattycnospam4303
@verizon.net enlightened us with...

I told you my cat (3.5 years) started pooping outside the box about 2 months
ago. She only did it downstairs in the back room where 1 box is (2 more are
upstairs). I tried moving the 3rd box upstairs to the spare bedroom where
the other boxes are. That was a mistake, because now she does the outside
the box thing on the carpet in that spare room.

snip


I know there are no miracles, but I'd love any advice to make this stop.


Well, I have two thoughts.

It could be a habit.
Habits, while often begun as a stress reliever, can continue long past
the end of the original stressor. To break bad toilet habits, one has to
start from the beginning. One cat, one box, one room, until she is using
it all the time. The smallest space necessary to force usage. If you
have to crate her for a small time, you have to. It's better than
eventually rehoming her due to your frustration. Cats live in shelters
in cages longer than she'll need to be crated.

Or, it could be that there is something she doesn't like about the boxes
that you haven't identified yet.

Since you said she doesn't do it *every* day, do you know if she just
doesn't defecate daily or if she sometimes *does* use the box?
If she does use it sometimes, *when*? That is key to knowing what she
doesn't like. Does she go only if the box was unused? Does she only go
after another cat has used it? Does she only go if one particular cat
has/hasn't used it yet? Confining her to a separate room with her own
box will tell you if it is something about the other cats' usage she
objects to. If she stops going outside the box when the other cats
aren't sharing, you know that's it. If she doesn't, at least you've
ruled it out and can concentrate on how clean is it, type, etc or other
behavioral causes.

Just my rambling 5 cents...

--
--
~kaeli~
Local Area Network in Australia:... the LAN down under.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace

"Laura R." wrote in message
.. .
circa Thu, 03 Jun 2004 23:16:22 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav,
PattyC ) said,

I told you my cat (3.5 years) started pooping outside the box about 2
months
ago. She only did it downstairs in the back room where 1 box is (2 more
are
upstairs). I tried moving the 3rd box upstairs to the spare bedroom
where
the other boxes are. That was a mistake, because now she does the
outside
the box thing on the carpet in that spare room.

Okay, I read your entire post, but I didn't see you say anywhere that
you'd *gotten rid of* the box that seems to be the trigger. Have you
tried that?

Laura
--
I am Dyslexia of Borg,
Your ass will be laminated.

Sorry if I miscommunicated, but there is no one box that is a culprit. I
routinely rotate all boxes, and she has done the outside the box thing
whether the box is the blue one or the green one, etc. Or whether it's the
small or larger one.

I don't think the boxes themselves are part of the behavior....

PattyC