Big cats in England

"dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers" wrote
in message ...
I hope they'll be protected as well as studied.

Joy

Joy, big cats aren't native to the UK. If there are any in the wild
(and I
think there most probably are a few), I have grave misgivings about
them
remaining here. The theory is that they are cats that have escaped or
have been
deliberately released from private collections when legislation was
brought in
controlling who could have them and how/where they were kept.
Reasons for my misgivings - example, we now have wild mink in the UK.
They are
escapees (unintentional & deliberate escape - "liberation") and
descendents of
escapees from mink farms. The mink in question is the American Mink -
it's not
native to the UK and it has no natural predators over here. It also
breeds
extremely well over here. It is destroying our native and now very
rare,
extremely endangered water voles. There's nothing better a mink likes
than a
tasty water vole for lunch. The mink is killing off our own wild life
rather
efficiently. For example - the stream at the end of my garden is a
tributary of
the River Wensum. It had been mink free until quite recently. I used
to see a
lot of water voles about. I haven't seen *any* this year. There's no
sign of
them. Some time ago a downstream neighbour told me she'd seen a mink
on the
banks of the stream where it goes by her place. Mink have been
reported
elsewhere on the river system too. Also, the number of fish in the
stream has
noticeably declined when the water is *good* and it's not fished to
any extent.

The other problem is that in relative terms, the UK is a small
landmass, highly
urbanised in many areas so there simply isn't the space for big cats
to be
about in any quantity without possible serious consequences for
people. In this
case, it isn't the people encroaching on to land previously the
natural habitat
of the big cats, it's more the other way around.

I have very grave doubts about big cats remaining wild in the UK.

Cheers, helen s



You make some very good points here, Helen. Maybe the thing to hope for
is that they can be safely relocated to a place where their kind is
native.

Joy

"dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers" wrote
in message ...
I hope they'll be protected as well as studied.

Joy

Joy, big cats aren't native to the UK. If there are any in the wild
(and I
think there most probably are a few), I have grave misgivings about
them
remaining here. The theory is that they are cats that have escaped or
have been
deliberately released from private collections when legislation was
brought in
controlling who could have them and how/where they were kept.
Reasons for my misgivings - example, we now have wild mink in the UK.
They are
escapees (unintentional & deliberate escape - "liberation") and
descendents of
escapees from mink farms. The mink in question is the American Mink -
it's not
native to the UK and it has no natural predators over here. It also
breeds
extremely well over here. It is destroying our native and now very
rare,
extremely endangered water voles. There's nothing better a mink likes
than a
tasty water vole for lunch. The mink is killing off our own wild life
rather
efficiently. For example - the stream at the end of my garden is a
tributary of
the River Wensum. It had been mink free until quite recently. I used
to see a
lot of water voles about. I haven't seen *any* this year. There's no
sign of
them. Some time ago a downstream neighbour told me she'd seen a mink
on the
banks of the stream where it goes by her place. Mink have been
reported
elsewhere on the river system too. Also, the number of fish in the
stream has
noticeably declined when the water is *good* and it's not fished to
any extent.

The other problem is that in relative terms, the UK is a small
landmass, highly
urbanised in many areas so there simply isn't the space for big cats
to be
about in any quantity without possible serious consequences for
people. In this
case, it isn't the people encroaching on to land previously the
natural habitat
of the big cats, it's more the other way around.

I have very grave doubts about big cats remaining wild in the UK.

Cheers, helen s



You make some very good points here, Helen. Maybe the thing to hope for
is that they can be safely relocated to a place where their kind is
native.

Joy

"dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers" wrote
in message ...
This has to be a hoax.

It's not. There's good evidence to suggest it may well be true.
Pumas and Lynxes are North American critters, never
found in the wild in Britain (or Ireland). I can't believe that any
zoo over
there would be so careless as to lose breeding pairs, either.

Indeed they aren't natives but there was a time, not that long ago,
where
private individuals were able to keep such cats. The law was altered
which
meant private individuals couldn't - where & how such animals were
kept became
highly regulated (rightly so IMO). As a result, before the law came
into
effect, it is beleived that some private owners released their animals
into the
wild rather than the animal be euthanised or end up in someone else's
zoo here
in the UK or abroad.

Some years ago, when Vernon, Nathan (he'd be about six or seven at the
time) &
I were out walking in local countryside, in quite tall vegetation, we
*heard*
something that could only be described as a big cat growling. The
hairs on the
back of my went up. We stopped and *froze*. Vernon looked at me, I
looked at
him. Nathan said "What's that noise?" I said, "Oh, probably just a cow
in
nearby field." Nathan responded to tell me it sounded just like a
lion to him.
When we started walking again, Vernon walked in front, follwed by
Nathan and I
took up the rear - we made sure our young child was between us at all
times. We
also spoke very loudly... to try to make sure we didn't startle
anything we may
not want to meet up with.

A lynx was spotted and filmed in someone's front garden in North
London too...

Heck, we've got a few wallabies wild in Norfolk - Vernon has spotted
one - and
there's been photographs now and again.

I don't think there's a lot of big cats out there, I think there's
probably
very few but I have very, very grave reservations about allowing them
to stay
out there.


Cheers, helen s

Your comment about the wallabies reminded me of something that happened
when I was about 8 or 9, or maybe a little older. I grew up in East Los
Angeles. We were out of the big city, but our area was fairly well
built up. However, very close to where I lived, there was a large open
area. We called it "the field".

One day when I was walking to the local grocery store (just a block from
my house), I saw something jumping across "the field". I went home and
told my mother I had seen a kangaroo. She said there were no kangaroos
around here, but she believed that I had seen something. She brought my
little brother and we took a walk along one side of "the field". We saw
it again, and it looked like a kangaroo to my mother too. She knew it
didn't belong there, so she called and reported it to the police. They
said that someone had reported a pet wallaby missing.

Eventually the wallaby was caught and returned to the people who had it.
Because my spotting it and my mother's call let to its retrieval, the
family who kept it invited us to come and meet "Wally". They had him in
the house, where they had made a sort of cave under a table for him.
That was my first sight of a wallaby, and actually my first knowledge
that there was such a thing.

Joy

"dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers" wrote
in message ...
This has to be a hoax.

It's not. There's good evidence to suggest it may well be true.
Pumas and Lynxes are North American critters, never
found in the wild in Britain (or Ireland). I can't believe that any
zoo over
there would be so careless as to lose breeding pairs, either.

Indeed they aren't natives but there was a time, not that long ago,
where
private individuals were able to keep such cats. The law was altered
which
meant private individuals couldn't - where & how such animals were
kept became
highly regulated (rightly so IMO). As a result, before the law came
into
effect, it is beleived that some private owners released their animals
into the
wild rather than the animal be euthanised or end up in someone else's
zoo here
in the UK or abroad.

Some years ago, when Vernon, Nathan (he'd be about six or seven at the
time) &
I were out walking in local countryside, in quite tall vegetation, we
*heard*
something that could only be described as a big cat growling. The
hairs on the
back of my went up. We stopped and *froze*. Vernon looked at me, I
looked at
him. Nathan said "What's that noise?" I said, "Oh, probably just a cow
in
nearby field." Nathan responded to tell me it sounded just like a
lion to him.
When we started walking again, Vernon walked in front, follwed by
Nathan and I
took up the rear - we made sure our young child was between us at all
times. We
also spoke very loudly... to try to make sure we didn't startle
anything we may
not want to meet up with.

A lynx was spotted and filmed in someone's front garden in North
London too...

Heck, we've got a few wallabies wild in Norfolk - Vernon has spotted
one - and
there's been photographs now and again.

I don't think there's a lot of big cats out there, I think there's
probably
very few but I have very, very grave reservations about allowing them
to stay
out there.


Cheers, helen s

Your comment about the wallabies reminded me of something that happened
when I was about 8 or 9, or maybe a little older. I grew up in East Los
Angeles. We were out of the big city, but our area was fairly well
built up. However, very close to where I lived, there was a large open
area. We called it "the field".

One day when I was walking to the local grocery store (just a block from
my house), I saw something jumping across "the field". I went home and
told my mother I had seen a kangaroo. She said there were no kangaroos
around here, but she believed that I had seen something. She brought my
little brother and we took a walk along one side of "the field". We saw
it again, and it looked like a kangaroo to my mother too. She knew it
didn't belong there, so she called and reported it to the police. They
said that someone had reported a pet wallaby missing.

Eventually the wallaby was caught and returned to the people who had it.
Because my spotting it and my mother's call let to its retrieval, the
family who kept it invited us to come and meet "Wally". They had him in
the house, where they had made a sort of cave under a table for him.
That was my first sight of a wallaby, and actually my first knowledge
that there was such a thing.

Joy

"Duke of URL" dumped this in
on 21 Apr 2004:

This has to be a hoax. Pumas and Lynxes are North American critters,
never found in the wild in Britain (or Ireland). I can't believe that
any zoo over there would be so careless as to lose breeding pairs,
either.

"Life will find a way."
Chaos theorist Ian Malcolm in Michael Crichton's Jurassic Park

--
Cheryl

"Duke of URL" dumped this in
on 21 Apr 2004:

This has to be a hoax. Pumas and Lynxes are North American critters,
never found in the wild in Britain (or Ireland). I can't believe that
any zoo over there would be so careless as to lose breeding pairs,
either.

"Life will find a way."
Chaos theorist Ian Malcolm in Michael Crichton's Jurassic Park

--
Cheryl

"Cheryl" wrote in message
...
"Duke of URL" dumped this in
on 21 Apr 2004:

This has to be a hoax. Pumas and Lynxes are North American critters,
never found in the wild in Britain (or Ireland). I can't believe
that
any zoo over there would be so careless as to lose breeding pairs,
either.

"Life will find a way."
Chaos theorist Ian Malcolm in Michael Crichton's Jurassic Park

--
Cheryl

Interesting you should mention him. I gave a speech last night in which
I quoted his comment about cloning: "You were so excited about the fact
that you could do it, you never stopped to wonder whether you should do
it." He was talking about cloning dinosaurs, but I think it's a very
apropos comment for things that are going on today.

Joy

"Cheryl" wrote in message
...
"Duke of URL" dumped this in
on 21 Apr 2004:

This has to be a hoax. Pumas and Lynxes are North American critters,
never found in the wild in Britain (or Ireland). I can't believe
that
any zoo over there would be so careless as to lose breeding pairs,
either.

"Life will find a way."
Chaos theorist Ian Malcolm in Michael Crichton's Jurassic Park

--
Cheryl

Interesting you should mention him. I gave a speech last night in which
I quoted his comment about cloning: "You were so excited about the fact
that you could do it, you never stopped to wonder whether you should do
it." He was talking about cloning dinosaurs, but I think it's a very
apropos comment for things that are going on today.

Joy

"dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers" wrote in
message ...
I hope they'll be protected as well as studied.

Joy

Joy, big cats aren't native to the UK. If there are any in the wild (and I
think there most probably are a few), I have grave misgivings about them
remaining here. The theory is that they are cats that have escaped or have
been
deliberately released from private collections when legislation was
brought in
controlling who could have them and how/where they were kept.
Reasons for my misgivings - example, we now have wild mink in the UK. They
are
escapees (unintentional & deliberate escape - "liberation") and
descendents of
escapees from mink farms. The mink in question is the American Mink - it's
not
native to the UK and it has no natural predators over here. It also breeds
extremely well over here. It is destroying our native and now very rare,
extremely endangered water voles. There's nothing better a mink likes than
a
tasty water vole for lunch. The mink is killing off our own wild life
rather
efficiently. For example - the stream at the end of my garden is a
tributary of
the River Wensum. It had been mink free until quite recently. I used to
see a
lot of water voles about. I haven't seen *any* this year. There's no sign
of
them. Some time ago a downstream neighbour told me she'd seen a mink on
the
banks of the stream where it goes by her place. Mink have been reported
elsewhere on the river system too. Also, the number of fish in the stream
has
noticeably declined when the water is *good* and it's not fished to any
extent.

The other problem is that in relative terms, the UK is a small landmass,
highly
urbanised in many areas so there simply isn't the space for big cats to be
about in any quantity without possible serious consequences for people. In
this
case, it isn't the people encroaching on to land previously the natural
habitat
of the big cats, it's more the other way around.

I have very grave doubts about big cats remaining wild in the UK.

This problem of "imported" species out-doing the native species is a major
problem here in Australia, particularly when it comes to feral cats, dogs
and pigs, although there are many other introduced species that are wreaking
havoc in their own environmental niches (can toads, european carp, indian
mynah bird etc etc). Because Australia was so isolated for so long (in terms
of evolution) our native fauna simply doesn't have the natural methods of
dealing with the effecient hunters that come from other parts of the world.

Ironically, one of our natives, the possum, is a large problem in New
Zealand, where it a pest and not part of the natural ecosystem.

Yowie

"dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers" wrote in
message ...
I hope they'll be protected as well as studied.

Joy

Joy, big cats aren't native to the UK. If there are any in the wild (and I
think there most probably are a few), I have grave misgivings about them
remaining here. The theory is that they are cats that have escaped or have
been
deliberately released from private collections when legislation was
brought in
controlling who could have them and how/where they were kept.
Reasons for my misgivings - example, we now have wild mink in the UK. They
are
escapees (unintentional & deliberate escape - "liberation") and
descendents of
escapees from mink farms. The mink in question is the American Mink - it's
not
native to the UK and it has no natural predators over here. It also breeds
extremely well over here. It is destroying our native and now very rare,
extremely endangered water voles. There's nothing better a mink likes than
a
tasty water vole for lunch. The mink is killing off our own wild life
rather
efficiently. For example - the stream at the end of my garden is a
tributary of
the River Wensum. It had been mink free until quite recently. I used to
see a
lot of water voles about. I haven't seen *any* this year. There's no sign
of
them. Some time ago a downstream neighbour told me she'd seen a mink on
the
banks of the stream where it goes by her place. Mink have been reported
elsewhere on the river system too. Also, the number of fish in the stream
has
noticeably declined when the water is *good* and it's not fished to any
extent.

The other problem is that in relative terms, the UK is a small landmass,
highly
urbanised in many areas so there simply isn't the space for big cats to be
about in any quantity without possible serious consequences for people. In
this
case, it isn't the people encroaching on to land previously the natural
habitat
of the big cats, it's more the other way around.

I have very grave doubts about big cats remaining wild in the UK.

This problem of "imported" species out-doing the native species is a major
problem here in Australia, particularly when it comes to feral cats, dogs
and pigs, although there are many other introduced species that are wreaking
havoc in their own environmental niches (can toads, european carp, indian
mynah bird etc etc). Because Australia was so isolated for so long (in terms
of evolution) our native fauna simply doesn't have the natural methods of
dealing with the effecient hunters that come from other parts of the world.

Ironically, one of our natives, the possum, is a large problem in New
Zealand, where it a pest and not part of the natural ecosystem.

Yowie