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#1
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Socializing shy cat to dog?
Hi the I could really use some advice from the cat experts.
We have a 2.5-year-old cat whom we dearly love and who loves us back but is terrified of everyone else. In the interest of full disclosure, I should admit that we did everything wrong to socialize her as a kitten. (We had no idea what we were doing.) We adopted her from the shelter when she was very, very young (the rescue workers said 8 weeks, but my guess is 5) and she bonded intensely to my partner (still nurses her multiple times a day). We had just moved to a new city and didn't know anyone, and so she interacted with very few people and animals during her critical period for socialization. We also did not work to build a food drive, so she isn't food motivated at all (doesn't like treats or any food other than her bland kibble--won't touch wet food or even milk, and we have tried many different brands). This past summer, we got a puppy, who is now 9 months old. We have been trying to socialize the two, but haven't had any success. Since we have a multistory home, we have kept the puppy on the first floor, so the cat can have the second and third floors as her own territory. We tried to entice the cat downstairs, first with food (no dice), and then by ignoring her all day and calling her downstairs. This worked for a while, but when we started crate training the puppy (lots of crying and whining and barking) she got scared off and it's now very difficult to get her on the same floor with him, even when he's crated and/or asleep. Once he went upstairs and got a mouthful of her food. She refused to eat until we put new, clean dishes down in a different place. The puppy has been wonderful. He does not chase her or bark at her. But he is a loud, bumbling dork, and even mild interest in her on his part (he will strike a play bow when he sees her) scares her half to death. We have been training him to ignore her, but it is hard, slow work, especially since she hardly ever makes herself visible to him. We don't want to force the cat to interact with him, but it would be nice to be able to have him upstairs sometimes. Does anyone have any ideas? I'd like to classically condition it, so she develops a positive association with his presence, but I can't think of anything motivating (she's too freaked out to tolerate the things she normally loves, like petting and fetching toys). Sorry this is so long, but I wanted to give the details. Thanks for any advice-- Nathan |
#2
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NEM wrote in om on 11 Feb
2004: We don't want to force the cat to interact with him, but it would be nice to be able to have him upstairs sometimes. Does anyone have any ideas? I'd like to classically condition it, so she develops a positive association with his presence, but I can't think of anything motivating (she's too freaked out to tolerate the things she normally loves, like petting and fetching toys). I don't have a dog, but have friends who do. I can see how they can be intimidating to a timid cat. How about a harness for the dog? Maybe try to get the kitty used to one, as well? Dogs can tolerate being tethered better than cats which is why I say ease into it with the cat. Let them be in each others presense briefly while both, or one, is tethered. Is the dog kennel trained? If so, can you try to get the cat around the dog while he's kenneled? I have a feral who was in a cage while being socialized and my other cats got to know her while she was caged and no one was intimidated. It would be good to find a treat that your cat will eat; it works wonders. My feral sounds a lot like your cat and can't be bribed with anything other than Wysong Cat treats. One of my other cats doesn't like any treats or meat but loves raw chicken liver. These are "treats" to [reward] enforce [good/desirable] behavior. -- Cheryl Trapped like rats. In a chia-pet. MIB II |
#3
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NEM wrote in om on 11 Feb
2004: We don't want to force the cat to interact with him, but it would be nice to be able to have him upstairs sometimes. Does anyone have any ideas? I'd like to classically condition it, so she develops a positive association with his presence, but I can't think of anything motivating (she's too freaked out to tolerate the things she normally loves, like petting and fetching toys). I don't have a dog, but have friends who do. I can see how they can be intimidating to a timid cat. How about a harness for the dog? Maybe try to get the kitty used to one, as well? Dogs can tolerate being tethered better than cats which is why I say ease into it with the cat. Let them be in each others presense briefly while both, or one, is tethered. Is the dog kennel trained? If so, can you try to get the cat around the dog while he's kenneled? I have a feral who was in a cage while being socialized and my other cats got to know her while she was caged and no one was intimidated. It would be good to find a treat that your cat will eat; it works wonders. My feral sounds a lot like your cat and can't be bribed with anything other than Wysong Cat treats. One of my other cats doesn't like any treats or meat but loves raw chicken liver. These are "treats" to [reward] enforce [good/desirable] behavior. -- Cheryl Trapped like rats. In a chia-pet. MIB II |
#4
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Cheryl wrote in message ...
NEM wrote in om on 11 Feb 2004: We don't want to force the cat to interact with him, but it would be nice to be able to have him upstairs sometimes. Does anyone have any ideas? I'd like to classically condition it, so she develops a positive association with his presence, but I can't think of anything motivating (she's too freaked out to tolerate the things she normally loves, like petting and fetching toys). I don't have a dog, but have friends who do. I can see how they can be intimidating to a timid cat. How about a harness for the dog? Maybe try to get the kitty used to one, as well? Dogs can tolerate being tethered better than cats which is why I say ease into it with the cat. Let them be in each others presense briefly while both, or one, is tethered. Is the dog kennel trained? If so, can you try to get the cat around the dog while he's kenneled? I have a feral who was in a cage while being socialized and my other cats got to know her while she was caged and no one was intimidated. It would be good to find a treat that your cat will eat; it works wonders. My feral sounds a lot like your cat and can't be bribed with anything other than Wysong Cat treats. One of my other cats doesn't like any treats or meat but loves raw chicken liver. These are "treats" to [reward] enforce [good/desirable] behavior. Thanks, Cheryl. We have tried tethering (the dog, that is); even holding the cat in our arms is too overwhelming to her. When he's crated, she still hisses from a distance, which causes him to bark, which causes her to retreat behind the radiator for hours. I will try the Wysong treats and the livers; I had minor success with freeze-dried chicken breast, but she now sees through that little scheme. (She's a smart little @#$%!) We're going to get much more systematic about having controlled periods with both in the same room, but we need to find something motivating to get her in the room in the first place. She hates his smell and doesn't like to be anywhere she can smell him (won't get in our bed if he's been on the sheets, for example). He holds a down-stay pretty solidly now, so it should be easier than when he was a little puppy. But she is so gloriously stubborn! |
#5
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Cheryl wrote in message ...
NEM wrote in om on 11 Feb 2004: We don't want to force the cat to interact with him, but it would be nice to be able to have him upstairs sometimes. Does anyone have any ideas? I'd like to classically condition it, so she develops a positive association with his presence, but I can't think of anything motivating (she's too freaked out to tolerate the things she normally loves, like petting and fetching toys). I don't have a dog, but have friends who do. I can see how they can be intimidating to a timid cat. How about a harness for the dog? Maybe try to get the kitty used to one, as well? Dogs can tolerate being tethered better than cats which is why I say ease into it with the cat. Let them be in each others presense briefly while both, or one, is tethered. Is the dog kennel trained? If so, can you try to get the cat around the dog while he's kenneled? I have a feral who was in a cage while being socialized and my other cats got to know her while she was caged and no one was intimidated. It would be good to find a treat that your cat will eat; it works wonders. My feral sounds a lot like your cat and can't be bribed with anything other than Wysong Cat treats. One of my other cats doesn't like any treats or meat but loves raw chicken liver. These are "treats" to [reward] enforce [good/desirable] behavior. Thanks, Cheryl. We have tried tethering (the dog, that is); even holding the cat in our arms is too overwhelming to her. When he's crated, she still hisses from a distance, which causes him to bark, which causes her to retreat behind the radiator for hours. I will try the Wysong treats and the livers; I had minor success with freeze-dried chicken breast, but she now sees through that little scheme. (She's a smart little @#$%!) We're going to get much more systematic about having controlled periods with both in the same room, but we need to find something motivating to get her in the room in the first place. She hates his smell and doesn't like to be anywhere she can smell him (won't get in our bed if he's been on the sheets, for example). He holds a down-stay pretty solidly now, so it should be easier than when he was a little puppy. But she is so gloriously stubborn! |
#6
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Laura R. wrote in on 15
Feb 2004: How long has it been since whichever one is newer came into the house? You may have said, but I don't recall. :-) ---begin copy & paste----- We have a 2.5-year-old cat whom we dearly love and who loves us back but is terrified of everyone else. snip This past summer, we got a puppy, who is now 9 months old. We have been trying to socialize the two, but haven't had any success. ---end copy & paste---- I was hoping someone with experience with integrating both dogs and cats would chime in. I'd like to get a dog some day; I have plenty of room and a fully fensed in backyard and I LOVE dogs and I may have to go through this some day. My sister did it with a full grown cat, then got a full grown German Shepard rescue and then adopted a kitten and they all love each other. I don't recall much of the integration but she said they mostly all got along from the get go. I wonder in this case if the "vanilla on the shoulder blade" trick would help to make them all smell alike? I use feliway for my cats, but a friend of mine tried the dog version and didn't see any difference with her dogs behavior at all. -- Cheryl Trapped like rats. In a chia-pet. MIB II |
#7
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Laura R. wrote in on 15
Feb 2004: How long has it been since whichever one is newer came into the house? You may have said, but I don't recall. :-) ---begin copy & paste----- We have a 2.5-year-old cat whom we dearly love and who loves us back but is terrified of everyone else. snip This past summer, we got a puppy, who is now 9 months old. We have been trying to socialize the two, but haven't had any success. ---end copy & paste---- I was hoping someone with experience with integrating both dogs and cats would chime in. I'd like to get a dog some day; I have plenty of room and a fully fensed in backyard and I LOVE dogs and I may have to go through this some day. My sister did it with a full grown cat, then got a full grown German Shepard rescue and then adopted a kitten and they all love each other. I don't recall much of the integration but she said they mostly all got along from the get go. I wonder in this case if the "vanilla on the shoulder blade" trick would help to make them all smell alike? I use feliway for my cats, but a friend of mine tried the dog version and didn't see any difference with her dogs behavior at all. -- Cheryl Trapped like rats. In a chia-pet. MIB II |
#8
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Laura R. wrote in on 15
Feb 2004: The only thing that I can think of is a period of separation, where the cat has a room that is completely off-limits to the dog, combined with gradual reintroduction. It would probably be a good idea to wash everything that has the puppy's scent on it and give the pup a thorough bath to get rid of as much of his smell as possible, plus a little vanilla (perhaps) during reintroduction. Lots of good points. A baby gate would be good in this case, since a dog isn't likely to be able to jump it but a cat can with ease. I guess getting the cat used to knowing he has a safe place is good, probably also leaving a litter box in that safe space so he doesn't feel scared going to the box and then ending up with an elimination issue. The bath idea is really good! -- Cheryl Trapped like rats. In a chia-pet. MIB II |
#9
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Laura R. wrote in on 15
Feb 2004: The only thing that I can think of is a period of separation, where the cat has a room that is completely off-limits to the dog, combined with gradual reintroduction. It would probably be a good idea to wash everything that has the puppy's scent on it and give the pup a thorough bath to get rid of as much of his smell as possible, plus a little vanilla (perhaps) during reintroduction. Lots of good points. A baby gate would be good in this case, since a dog isn't likely to be able to jump it but a cat can with ease. I guess getting the cat used to knowing he has a safe place is good, probably also leaving a litter box in that safe space so he doesn't feel scared going to the box and then ending up with an elimination issue. The bath idea is really good! -- Cheryl Trapped like rats. In a chia-pet. MIB II |
#10
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Cheryl wrote in message ...
Laura R. wrote in on 15 Feb 2004: The only thing that I can think of is a period of separation, where the cat has a room that is completely off-limits to the dog, combined with gradual reintroduction. It would probably be a good idea to wash everything that has the puppy's scent on it and give the pup a thorough bath to get rid of as much of his smell as possible, plus a little vanilla (perhaps) during reintroduction. Lots of good points. A baby gate would be good in this case, since a dog isn't likely to be able to jump it but a cat can with ease. I guess getting the cat used to knowing he has a safe place is good, probably also leaving a litter box in that safe space so he doesn't feel scared going to the box and then ending up with an elimination issue. The bath idea is really good! I just looked up "vanilla + shoulder + cats"--thanks, Laura! I will try this and see if it helps. I think we may have erred too far on the side of caution. The cat had two whole floors entirely to herself (stairs are baby-gated), with her food and litterbox inside the safe space. As a result, she set up house quite comfortably and decided that as long as she could call us into her territory (through pitiful mewling) whenever she wanted, she was perfectly happy as an upstairs-apartment dweller. What we're doing now is bringing the dog up into *her* space, and making him down-stay while she watches him from a distance. Several times a day, no interaction between them. He gets treated for calm behavior. Eventually I think we will put the baby gates in front of one room on the second floor (where the cat's litter and food/water are). We also no longer respond to her cries (difficult though that is), making her come downstairs if she wants attention. Cheryl, don't take our experience as anything like a normal experience. Most people I know (and I've asked EVERYONE with dogs & cats) has said that it's taken anywhere from one day to six months. Our kitty is definitely an outlier. |
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