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#111
September 6th 03, 11:10 PM
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Mr. Smart (Phil) wrote:
"Because so-called "natural" antioxidants (tocopherols) are weaker, less stable, and have their own tendency to become oxidized. That's why." The first adjective is incorrect. Eq is easier to oxidise than tocopherols, that´s why it is used to preserve tocopherols and other oils. The second adjective is also wrong. If eq is easier to oxidise, it is therefore more unstable. The last comment is correct. That´s why antioxidants are called antioxidants Phil. They are electron donors but I´m sure you have no clue as to what this means. "The "natural tocopherols" in many products labeled "preserved with natural tocopherols" have already been preserved with a synthetic antioxidant by the supplier before it gets to the manufacturer." Absolutely not. Tocopherols are shipped in oxygen-free sealed containers. Tocopherols are oils Phil. Liquid. You cannot ship them in a paper bag. "If you had any sense, you'd hope your vitamin E was preserved with the more stable and longer lasting EQ...." If you knew what you were talking about, you´d know that tocopherols are oils and are shipped in sealed plastic or glass containers. Phil´s smart friend says: Why do you think that Vitamin E is encapsulated? That's because it is NOT an effective preservative. That is exactly why it is encapsulated Mr. Smart II. It is encapsulated to protect it from oxygen, that´s how effective it is. As far at ethoxyquin goes, I don't believe that it "builds up" in a cat's system. That is a theory designed to push an agenda, that I don't believe is based in fact. Well, my heart goes to your cats. If any of your cats ever has fatty liver disease and/or mammary, skin, brain, or liver cancer, blame it on yourself. 
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#113
September 6th 03, 11:41 PM
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From: (Liz)
There you have it! A perfect example of "Liz Logic"! LOL!. You think you are Mr. Smart, don´t you? And it seems you got yourself a little friend who thinks he´s just as smart as you. Seems Phil has a little butt buddy. Isn't that sweet? LOL! AND I´ve read some of your old posts. You copy things straight from books and make it seem like they are your own words. I've noticed that too when I used to read Phil's posts. I plonked him when he was using maxshouse.com or maxhouse.org, can't remember which, then he changed it. Anyway, unfortunately I still see his posts when he's quoted in someone else's post. He likes to think I actually want to read his insulting posts. You do not understand 90% of the things you read Phil. That´s just why you get so aggressive. You simply do not have any arguements whatsoever. Once you are challenged to THINK, you go into defensive mode. You sure got that right, Liz. Phil loves to insult people, thinking that makes him right. All it does is make him look like the immature jerk he is. I wonder if you are going to evade answering these questions by going away for a couple of weeks and coming back saying that you were on the other side of the world like you did the first time I asked you what bone buffering was. ROFL!!!!!! ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm
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#114
September 7th 03, 01:52 AM
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#115
September 7th 03, 01:52 AM
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#116
September 7th 03, 01:56 AM
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As far at ethoxyquin goes, I don't believe that it
"builds up" in a cat's system. That is a theory designed to push an agenda, that I don't believe is based in fact. Well, my heart goes to your cats. If any of your cats ever has fatty liver disease and/or mammary, skin, brain, or liver cancer, blame it on yourself. maybe I'll blame it on the moon. The same (flawed) logic applies. Since I feed Hill's products, I've pretty much taken care of all of the risk factors--so, no, I'm not worried about it. Phil´s smart friend says: Why do you think that Vitamin E is encapsulated? That's because it is NOT an effective preservative. That is exactly why it is encapsulated Mr. Smart II. It is encapsulated to protect it from oxygen, that´s how effective it is. Perhaps you want to correct the original poster as I was doing. Instead, you chide me. What's your problem? Are you a troll?
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#117
September 7th 03, 01:56 AM
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As far at ethoxyquin goes, I don't believe that it
"builds up" in a cat's system. That is a theory designed to push an agenda, that I don't believe is based in fact. Well, my heart goes to your cats. If any of your cats ever has fatty liver disease and/or mammary, skin, brain, or liver cancer, blame it on yourself. maybe I'll blame it on the moon. The same (flawed) logic applies. Since I feed Hill's products, I've pretty much taken care of all of the risk factors--so, no, I'm not worried about it. Phil´s smart friend says: Why do you think that Vitamin E is encapsulated? That's because it is NOT an effective preservative. That is exactly why it is encapsulated Mr. Smart II. It is encapsulated to protect it from oxygen, that´s how effective it is. Perhaps you want to correct the original poster as I was doing. Instead, you chide me. What's your problem? Are you a troll?
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#118
September 7th 03, 02:07 AM
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#119
September 7th 03, 02:07 AM
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#120
September 7th 03, 02:14 AM
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Liz, if you're referring to me...I don't think I'm as knowledgable about feline
nutrition as Phil P. I do have a basic understanding of nutrition and know what goes on in pet foods. However, I don't fall for the scare tactics of people like Ann Martin either. I will also challenge somebody if I think they are trying to "pull a fast one". Because I disagree w/ you on some things doesn't mean that you or anybody else has to get personal. Gaubster, Phil is not knowledgeable on feline nutrition, he just copies the material he has at home. He has tons of books about cats but he does not understand them. He copies those books into his posts and once challenged, he goes into defensive mode because he simply cannot explain the things he writes. If he were in fact knowledgeable at all on feline nutrition, he´d be the first one to be strongly advocating a raw diet. He was much more knowledgeable in the past but Hill´s marketing somehow got to him. I haven´t read any of Ann Martin´s posts yet as I just got back online and those threads are long so I´ll read them when I have more time. But I can tell you that whatever she says most likely holds true for those very cheap grocery store brands. She´s not the only one saying it either. Check this if you haven´t yet: http://www.api4animals.org/doc.asp?ID=79 Furthermore, cats are carnivores. Their digestive system is adapted to digest meat and animal fats. Whatever you feed them that is not meat or fats will stress their system to a greater or lesser extent and result in malnourishment. Malnourishment has innumerous facets, it´s not just the vitamin or mineral deficiency we commonly hear about. Medical books state that 70% of all diseases affecting people are caused by malnourishment, and those include diseases caused by viruses, bacteria, fungi, metabolic disorders, mental disorders, cancers, etc. You can expect the same for cats but to a much greater extent since this artificial diet is way off their natural diet. I understand most people cannot afford to feed raw or do not have the time to prepare a raw diet. But if they would at least give their cats ONE raw meal a week or a daily raw snack, that would do wonders for their pet´s health.
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