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  #31  
Old August 3rd 03, 06:20 AM
L. Kelly
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

| I wanted you to know bewtifulfreak that I really appreciate your common
| sense. Trying to carry on a intelligent conversation with Bob is not
| possible. But thanks for trying!
|
| Thank you, Mogie, that means a lot to me. I realized that right from the
| start, and intend to stop trying. I usually do okay at ignoring people like
| that - and plonking him will make it that much easier - but when people
| can't disagree without making personal attacks, it just seems to bring out
| the avenging angel in me, LOL! But clearly, Bob is not into common sense,
| and nothing I can say will stop him making his unmitigated judgements about
| the allegedy sickness, selfishness, or cruelty of all you wonderful folks in
| the group. Like Dear Abby (or was it Ann Landers?) once said, trying to
| reason with an alcoholic is like trying to blow out a lightbulb, and trying
| to discuss anything with Bob is exactly the same!
|
| Ann

As a further note in trying to reason with Bob.....I read a quote today that I think fits
him perfectly and thought that I would share it will all who are interested.

"How much easier it is to be critical, than to be correct." ... Benjamin Disraeli

In the debate on whether or not to keep a cat strictly indoors, or let it have some
outdoor freedom, there really is no "right" or "wrong." I feel that the cats will let the
slaves know if they are unhappy. As long as the cats are fed, loved, happy and healthy,
the slave should have the right to chose what is "good" for their cat.

In rural areas, with fewer dangers...let your cats have some freedom. In the city,
wrought with every kind of evil you can imagine, use your best judgement...and let your
kitties always be your guides in what that decision is.
--
Hugs,
Lynn


*strip CLOTHES to reply*
Homepage:
http://members.shaw.ca/sewfinefashions/
See my boys: http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/papavince_29/



  #32  
Old August 3rd 03, 08:29 AM
DeAnna
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Posts: n/a
Default

Mr. Brenchley-

Have you no better manners than to hurl unfounded insults at those who disagree with your
personal opinion? Shame on you.

I do not believe for one moment that you can sit on your self-righteous high horse and
sanctimoniously claim that you have no "cat haters" in the UK or Northern Ireland. You've
folks there that kill other humans for their difference in religious beliefs. And you
expect me to believe that no one becomes enraged over the destruction of their property?
Oft times, it is not a hatred of the animal, but a resentment of the inconsiderate
neighbor who'd let them run amok, defacing things that do not belong to them, that spurs
the retaliatory behaviour, which is then taken out upon the unsuspecting, trusting pet.

It is a matter of personal responsibility, and not only cats, but dogs, and any other pets
or livestock, and even extended to children, that are bound by this code of civility. You
don't break or destroy, or allow to be broken or destroyed, that which you do not own.
Anything less is vandalism, and the owner has every right to want retribution. Some owners
however, take less than legal forms of retribution, and the end victim ends up being the
poor trusting creature.

As for the antifreeze in EU, it is wonderful that you have only the non-toxic form.
However, I am sure you folks have rat poison. That is how Aja, my mother's beloved Persian
died. D-con mixed with canned cat food. The neighbors were upset that the cat used their
prize winning garden as a litter box. As it could not be proved, there was nothing we
could do, and it wouldn't have mattered. The kitty was dead, and no matter of finger
pointing or even criminal conviction would have brought him back.

You say "Not many" cases of Feline Aids? Watch one of your babies waste slowly away,
slowly dying before your helpless hands, and say "How many?" is too many. To me, ONE is
too many. A generic "not many" doesn't cut it. I don't enjoy seeing any animal die in my
arms.

As for the neighbors making threats, you can report 'such threats' to police (I reported
them to animal control when I posted the cat as "found"-here you must post an animal as
found for three days, and when the 'owner' fails to come to the pound looking for them,
they belong to you). However, you can't prosecute someone for what they *might* do. *IF*
they carry through, and *BIG IF* they can *PROVE* they did it, THEN AND ONLY THEN, will
they be held responsible. But is it better to prevent the misdeed, than to attempt to gain
recompense after the fact? Would you allow your child to be murdered so you could
prosecute the guilty party?

If you think animal torture to be infrequent, you must either by someone who doesn't watch
the news, or someone who is delusional. And the frequency is of no matter to the victim's
family. It only takes that once, to drive a stake of pain through their heart. The fact
that it hasn't happened often is of no consolation to those who lost a loved one.

I hope my "deep rooted" "sickness" and "abuse" of protecting and nurturing my animals with
the same care and tenderness that I show my human offspring spreads to every human. I have
had very few cats that ever desired to be outdoors. Even when THEY are given the choice,
they prefer to be indoors. Perhaps they know more than any of us give them credit for.
Those who truly love their animals would literally lay down their lives for them, and
would never intentionally put them in harms way. That includes in the path of a moving
car, an angry neighbor, or a disease infested wild animal, that picks a fight out of the
need to survive. No animal in my care will come to any harm at all, if I can at all help
it. They are all very healthy, happy, and loving, and that speaks volumes more truth, than
any opinion typed in ignorance.

If you truly believe in all that you put in your posts, I feel very sorry for you, and for
the animals in your care. You must be a bitter, miserable person to be so hateful, and
contemptuous in the way you treat other people, and it makes me wonder how that translates
to how you treat those poor creatures who are in your care.

D.

"Bob Brenchley." wrote in message
...
On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 23:17:21 -0500, "DeAnna"
wrote:

If you live in an area where, for whatever reason, you feel unable to
allow a healthy cat its freedom to roam for at least some time each
day (and only you can judge your area) then don't have a cat. To have
a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you are being
cruel, selfish, or both.


Sir-

Where do you live?

You don't have any cat haters for neighbors?


No. There may be the odd one who doesn't like cats very much, but that
would make them odd now wouldn't it?

Or perhaps you don't *know* you do? You know,
the ones who are nice to your face, but secretly put antifreeze in a dish next to the
garbage can that your cat rummages in, because he is throwing trash across their patio?


You have some strange garbage cans if a cat can do that.

Also, all antifreeze produced in the EU is "pet safe".

Or
the one who shoots the cat with a pellet gun,


Heard of that happening - guy got a very heavy fine and was soon
forced to move as a result of the hate campaign he earnt himself.

because the cat digs up his garden? Or the
person who just hates cats because they are 'cats' and knowing swerves to HIT instead

of
swerving to miss, as kitty crosses the road?


Sure, and then he gets done for hitting the parked cars

Are you aware that cats are the most
frequently tortured of all domestic animals?


Nope. Are you aware how infrequent any animal torture really is?

So there is no traffic where you live?


Lots.

No cases of feline AIDS?


Not many.

No fleas


Lots of those, but then humans bring them indoors on their clothes as
well.

or mosquitoes


Nope.
carrying worms or other blood-borne disease or parasite?

Let me know where this Cat Utopia exists, because I'd love to live there.


The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

The feral we just took in, was because the neighbors (on whose destructive dog I had
complained to Animal Control) were threatening to harm the cat,


Something I would have reported to the police.

because (and I must say
unfairly) they couldn't just CALL animal control, as there is currently no law

forbidding
cats to roam and destroy, but there is a law prohibiting DOGS from doing so.


That is how it should be. Cats represent no danger to humans - dogs
do.

It wasn't
even our cat, but looked similar to our cat, so they 'assumed' it belonged to us and
threatened harm if we didn't 'keep it from bothering their dog'.


As I said, such threats would be reported to the police.

Call me an 'abuser' all
you like. This baby isn't going any where near the outdoors.


The you are not just an abuser - but a very sick one.

I prefer to call myself a
'responsible' pet owner.


You would, but your lack of understanding of a cats needs makes your
an appallingly bad cat owner.

I am responsible for the behaviour of my kitties, as well as my
dog, and NONE of them are allowed off the property. They can go outside on leashes, or
attended if they obey me and stay in the yard (as my "son" did). They will soon have an
area that is 'enclosed' keeping them safely away from any predators, especially the

humans
predators, of the ignorant and violent persuasion, yet allowing them access to the

grass,
and sights and smells of outdoors.


Your animal abusing sickness seems to be very deep rooted. Maybe you
should seek treatment for your mental problems.

I am not going to turn this little darling outside, to find her headless body on my
doorstep as part of some nasty neighbor feud, simply because I wouldn't allow their dog

to
live at my house, eating my shoes and chewing up my garden hose.

One bad thing about domestication. We teach animals to trust humans. Sometimes I think
that is ultimately a bad thing. Like I tried to explain to a friend about

rehabbing
wild creatures. You must not imprint them too much, because that fear and mistrust of
humans may save their lives. Not all humans are kind and good.

Sorry, I have to go "abuse" my babies, it is time for their nightly snack of cream

and/or
tuna, and they have all taken turn to come remind me. They certainly have me very
well trained.


You really are sick.

D.

PS-The door was opened to let the dog 'do her business' for the night. All of the cats

ran
in the opposite direction as I held open the door, though I made no effort to stop them
going onto the porch. The dog went out long enough to accomplish what she had to, then
promptly sat at the door until I opened the screen for her to come in. I am thinking
they'd all rather be in this comfy A/C, lounging on comfy furniture, and licking the

tuna
from their chins, than 'roaming'......

--
Bob.

Alas, your intelligence qualifies you more for the primordial soup
than for the "master race." Recognize your limitations. Then shut
up.



  #33  
Old August 3rd 03, 03:47 PM
Hope Munro Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article ,
Bob Brenchley. wrote:

On Fri, 01 Aug 2003 03:36:23 GMT, "L. Kelly"
wrote:


"bewtifulfreak" wrote in message
...
|
| Ah, but Bob believes that you just shouldn't have a cat if you live in an
| area like that. And as far as strays in those areas? I guess we're
| supposed to accept that a feral life full of disease, fighting and
| possibly
| starving or being eaten is a more 'natural' life for a cat, and therefore
| it
| will somehow be happier than if it were being kept indoors, fed, played
| with, and tended to. Myself, I find that awfully difficult to accept. I
| so
| wish the cats could have a (verbal) say in all this!!!
|
| Ann
| (who does let her cats outdoors, but only because it's safe to do so)
|
|


The one cat that I have is now over 8 years old. I moved here in March. Does
my moving
here mean that I'm supposed to "disown" or "abandon" my cat to a new
slave???????.


If you are stupid or selfish enough to move to a home unsuitable for
the cat - yet.

....and
just to please a self-serving ass like Bob?!?!?


What does a donkey have to do with it?

:-O I could never!!!!!!


I've taken on two cats in the past few years because their owners were
forced to move to a home unsuitable for a cat. One, Penny, stayed two
years until her old owners were able to find a home in a safer area.
The other, Floss, had an owner that was going into residential care, I
had her for two months while we found someone in the area who was
happy to take her on. As she was an older cat (9 or 10 if I recall) I
wanted a home close to where she was used to roaming. I still see her
every now and again, at 16+ she is still doing well.


A lady who lives in our neighborhood as built a "cat run" -- basically
she has encased her entire backyard in fencing with a sort of fencing
"roof" so that the cats can be outside but can't leave the yard.
It took her *forever* I'm sure, but her cats are completely safe from
cars and predators.
  #34  
Old August 3rd 03, 05:06 PM
bewtifulfreak
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"L. Kelly" wrote in message
. ca...

As a further note in trying to reason with Bob.....I read a quote today

that I think fits
him perfectly and thought that I would share it will all who are

interested.

"How much easier it is to be critical, than to be correct." ... Benjamin

Disraeli

How very appropriate.


In the debate on whether or not to keep a cat strictly indoors, or let it

have some
outdoor freedom, there really is no "right" or "wrong." I feel that the

cats will let the
slaves know if they are unhappy. As long as the cats are fed, loved, happy

and healthy,
the slave should have the right to chose what is "good" for their cat.

In rural areas, with fewer dangers...let your cats have some freedom. In

the city,
wrought with every kind of evil you can imagine, use your best

judgement...and let your
kitties always be your guides in what that decision is.


This reflects my outlook on the issue to a tee, well said. Obviously, if a
cat has been an outdoor cat, and is then rehomed, it should ideally be
rehomed to someplace it can still wander. If a cat is going to be indoor
only, it should really be done right from the get-go (or as soon as
possible, where feral kittens are concerned). That said, there are always
exceptions and individual situations; my Simba used to always sneak out of
my apartment, and now lives with my mom in her apartment complex where cats
are not allowed to wander; he pokes his nose out, but unlike another cat she
had, doesn't run off, but runs right back in! So clearly, he feels safer
and more comfortable indoors, whereas the other cat clearly wanted more
freedom (and even still, was *very* happy and content with my mom, and
shouldn't have been wandering anyway, because he was FLV positive). As you
said, the kitties always have to be your guide. And as I said to Bob, I
know that any one of us, seeing that our cat was clearly bored or unhappy,
would do anything to see that change, even if that meant rehoming it. I
also disagree about leashes and enclosures....I think those are *wonderful*
compromises. A big enough enclosure is much better than a mere cage and
gives a cat access to fresh air, greenery and sunshine, and while you
certainly can't treat a cat on a harness the same as a dog on a leash, it
gives the cat a chance to wander while still being supervised and cared
after.

So, yes, as long as your cats are fed, loved, happy and healthy (and really,
a cat makes it very clear whether it is happy or unhappy), caring for a cat
is like caring for a child: we all have opinions, but it is truly up to each
individual as to how to best care for their companion.

Ann


  #35  
Old August 4th 03, 11:39 AM
Bryan S. Slick
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

[bewtifulfreak]
[Sat, 2 Aug 2003 18:09:56 +0100]

: You have some strange garbage cans if a cat can do that.
:
: Also, all antifreeze produced in the EU is "pet safe".
:
:Not everyone in this group lives in the EU, Bob.

Nor is that statement of his verifiable. While it is true that many
current antifreeze products on the market are "pet safe" (in that they
do not contain a significant amount of ethylene glycol), it's impossible
to state with any accuracy that there are NO EG-containing antifreezes
sold in the entire continent of Europe.

--
Bryan S. Slick, bryan_s at slick-family dot net

"To those who have fought for it,
freedom has a flavor the protected will never know."
  #36  
Old August 4th 03, 01:26 PM
Bob Brenchley.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 14:47:42 GMT, Hope Munro Smith
wrote:

I've taken on two cats in the past few years because their owners were
forced to move to a home unsuitable for a cat. One, Penny, stayed two
years until her old owners were able to find a home in a safer area.
The other, Floss, had an owner that was going into residential care, I
had her for two months while we found someone in the area who was
happy to take her on. As she was an older cat (9 or 10 if I recall) I
wanted a home close to where she was used to roaming. I still see her
every now and again, at 16+ she is still doing well.


A lady who lives in our neighborhood as built a "cat run" -- basically
she has encased her entire backyard in fencing with a sort of fencing
"roof" so that the cats can be outside but can't leave the yard.
It took her *forever* I'm sure, but her cats are completely safe from
cars and predators.


Cats are NOT cage animals, however large the cage.

If you live in an area where, for whatever reason, you feel unable to
allow a healthy cat its freedom to roam for at least some time each
day (and only you can judge your area) then don't have a cat. To have
a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you are being
cruel, selfish, or both.

--
Bob.

You have not been charged for this lesson. Please pass it to all your
friends so they may learn as well.
  #37  
Old August 4th 03, 01:44 PM
Bob Brenchley.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 2 Aug 2003 18:09:56 +0100, "bewtifulfreak"
wrote:

"Bob Brenchley." wrote in message
.. .

You have some strange garbage cans if a cat can do that.

Also, all antifreeze produced in the EU is "pet safe".


Not everyone in this group lives in the EU, Bob.


So? The fact that all antifreeze made in the EU is pet safe should
tell you something.


Or
the one who shoots the cat with a pellet gun,


Heard of that happening - guy got a very heavy fine and was soon
forced to move as a result of the hate campaign he earnt himself.


Our cat was shot by a pellet gun, and ultimately had to be put to sleep. We
have no idea who did it, so (s)he gets away with it scot-free, while the cat
is now dead. We reported it to the police, for all the good it did; our cat
was considered 'property', not a living thing. And I *do* live in UK.


Then you will know that the police take ANY and EVERY firearms offence
very seriously.


The feral we just took in, was because the neighbors (on whose

destructive dog I had
complained to Animal Control) were threatening to harm the cat,


Something I would have reported to the police.


Police generally say they can't do anything about someone who is threatening
*you* unless they do something, so I don't think they'd do a whole lot about
someone threatening your cat until it was too late.


Wrong. Making threats is, in itself, a criminal offence.


because (and I must say
unfairly) they couldn't just CALL animal control, as there is currently

no law forbidding
cats to roam and destroy, but there is a law prohibiting DOGS from doing

so.

That is how it should be. Cats represent no danger to humans - dogs
do.


No, but cats can do damage to property or gardens,


And if people don't like that then they have to make their gardens
unattractive to cats, not a difficult task.

not to mention birds, and
thus, many people are very resentful of free-roaming cats either for the
damage to their garden or because they're bird lovers or both,


The RSPB do not consider cats a major menace to birds.

and some will
actually go to great lengths to keep cats out of their yards, including
doing things to harm the cat.


There may be a very tiny minority who would harm cats - but that does
no excuse the systematic ill-treatment of cats by keeping them
indoors.


It wasn't
even our cat, but looked similar to our cat, so they 'assumed' it

belonged to us and
threatened harm if we didn't 'keep it from bothering their dog'.


As I said, such threats would be reported to the police.


And as I said, to no result whatsoever.


Obviously you did not try very hard.


I prefer to call myself a
'responsible' pet owner.


You would, but your lack of understanding of a cats needs makes your
an appallingly bad cat owner.


You say all true cat lovers and animal societies feel the way you do, but
any research on the 'Net or with various animal societies will prove that
there are many others who support the completely opposite view. You may
feel they're wrong, but a great many people feel you're wrong as well.


ALL true cat lovers, and ALL societies working in the best interests
of cats, would not approve of keeping a healthy cat indoors 24/7.

The FACT is that none of the UK's major shelters, nor most of the
smaller ones that for various reasons affiliate with the big boys,
will normally rehome a healthy cat to an indoor only environment. This
has been confirmed on numerous occasions by people who work at the
grass roots level - actually finding homes for cats.


One bad thing about domestication. We teach animals to trust humans.

Sometimes I think
that is ultimately a bad thing. Like I tried to explain to a friend

about rehabbing
wild creatures. You must not imprint them too much, because that fear and

mistrust of
humans may save their lives. Not all humans are kind and good.


This is true. Bob says cats are only domesticated in that we've gotten them
to live with us, but the fact is, they've lost many of their natural
protections and instincts,


No they have not. Not one. Zero.

and cannot be treated like true wild cats.
Despite how little Bob says it happens, wild cats are becoming extinct not
only because we're encroaching on their habitat, but, because this is
happening, they are coming into human habitats for food, and thus, being
shot.


Are you really that stupid. Go away and learn something about the wild
cats of the world - there are a lot of web sites out there. The all
list ONE MAJOR threat to the populations - habitat destruction.
Nothing else.

If this is happening to big wild cats, what hope do small domestic
cats have in protecting themselves against the dangers of city life?


Urban feral populations all over the world are not only surviving, but
flourishing.

It's
all well and good to address life in the EU, particularly in UK, but many
people in this group are from cities in the US,


So what? The cat is the same creature on both sides of the pond. As
such it needs the same treatment. I will not stand by and allow
American's to ill-treat cat just because they are Americans.

and could well chose not to
own cats, but there would then be that many more feral cats living a not
very satisfying life in the outdoors,


How do you work that out?

of sickness, attacks, and possibly
death, either by people wanting to rid themselves of the population (see
Kaeli's site for a tragic story about an entire feral population wiped out
by some idiot(s) with a 22.), or by cars, or some other horrible accident
befalling them. You're well entitled to your opinion, Bob, but that opinion
doesn't give you the right to make personal attacks on this newsgroup.


What gives me the right to make personal attacks is the ill-treatment
of cats. You should be ashamed of yourself for not only standing by
and allowing it to happen, but for also in part condoning it.

I'm
sure that most of the indoor cats owned by people here, even if not as happy
as you believe they could be, are not suffering unduly; indoor owners may be
'sick' in your opinion, but are not blind


They are - because if they were not then they would not ill-treat cats
like they do.

and would be able to see if their
cat was sulking around unhappily. And I truly believe that anyone on this
group who saw their cat in that state *would*, indeed, find another home for
it.


Pull the other one. When you have been around cat groups as long as I
have you will be sick of the ill-treatment American cats receive from
people who claim to be "loving owners".

I know I'm wasting my breath, because you will probably just cut and paste
your pat line in response, or contradict everything I've said, but I just
felt the need to have my say. I won't continue banging my head against this
brick wall much longer, though, because that kind of behavior truly *is*
sick....

Ann

--
Bob.

You have not been charged for this lesson. Please pass it to all your
friends so they may learn as well.
  #38  
Old August 4th 03, 01:49 PM
Bob Brenchley.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 2 Aug 2003 19:07:19 +0100, "bewtifulfreak"
wrote:

One last point on the indoor-outdoor debate: there aren't enough homes for
stray cats as it is, so if you eliminate cat lovers who live in certain
areas from having cats, there will just be that many more cats wandering
homeless, and ill-equipped for it. I believe a cat suffers far more living
a feral life than it does living an indoor life with a loving
caretaker-companion, though, again, I realize you, Bob, will disagree.

Ann

You bet I will disagree. There are more than enough homes, if only
more American shelters would learn the lessons the British ones can
give.

Those shelters I help are all no-kill, and that means they also will
never turn away a cat in need. They are, I'm pleased to say, now all
operating the rule of not homing healthy cats to indoor-only
situations except for short term fostering pending the finding of a
proper home.

Others can follow, I've offered help many times in the past. I cannot
go to the States to work hands on, but I can certainly teach them how
to run their shelters and how to raise the money necessary to reach
these goals.

--
Bob.

You have not been charged for this lesson. Please pass it to all your
friends so they may learn as well.
  #39  
Old August 4th 03, 01:50 PM
Bob Brenchley.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 4 Aug 2003 06:39:49 -0400, Bryan S. Slick
wrote:

[bewtifulfreak]
[Sat, 2 Aug 2003 18:09:56 +0100]

: You have some strange garbage cans if a cat can do that.
:
: Also, all antifreeze produced in the EU is "pet safe".
:
:Not everyone in this group lives in the EU, Bob.

Nor is that statement of his verifiable. While it is true that many
current antifreeze products on the market are "pet safe" (in that they
do not contain a significant amount of ethylene glycol), it's impossible
to state with any accuracy that there are NO EG-containing antifreezes
sold in the entire continent of Europe.


Sick Slick - Animal Abuser. Wondered when the scum of the cat world
would raise his ugly animal abusing head again.

--
Bob.

Alas, your intelligence qualifies you more for the primordial soup
than for the "master race." Recognize your limitations. Then shut
up.
  #40  
Old August 4th 03, 02:13 PM
Bob Brenchley.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 02:29:57 -0500, "DeAnna"
wrote:


"Bob Brenchley." wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 23:17:21 -0500, "DeAnna"
wrote:

If you live in an area where, for whatever reason, you feel unable to
allow a healthy cat its freedom to roam for at least some time each
day (and only you can judge your area) then don't have a cat. To have
a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you are being
cruel, selfish, or both.


Sir-

Where do you live?

You don't have any cat haters for neighbors?


No. There may be the odd one who doesn't like cats very much, but that
would make them odd now wouldn't it?

Or perhaps you don't *know* you do? You know,
the ones who are nice to your face, but secretly put antifreeze in a dish next to the
garbage can that your cat rummages in, because he is throwing trash across their patio?


You have some strange garbage cans if a cat can do that.

Also, all antifreeze produced in the EU is "pet safe".

Or
the one who shoots the cat with a pellet gun,


Heard of that happening - guy got a very heavy fine and was soon
forced to move as a result of the hate campaign he earnt himself.

because the cat digs up his garden? Or the
person who just hates cats because they are 'cats' and knowing swerves to HIT instead

of
swerving to miss, as kitty crosses the road?


Sure, and then he gets done for hitting the parked cars

Are you aware that cats are the most
frequently tortured of all domestic animals?


Nope. Are you aware how infrequent any animal torture really is?

So there is no traffic where you live?


Lots.

No cases of feline AIDS?


Not many.

No fleas


Lots of those, but then humans bring them indoors on their clothes as
well.

or mosquitoes


Nope.
carrying worms or other blood-borne disease or parasite?

Let me know where this Cat Utopia exists, because I'd love to live there.


The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

The feral we just took in, was because the neighbors (on whose destructive dog I had
complained to Animal Control) were threatening to harm the cat,


Something I would have reported to the police.

because (and I must say
unfairly) they couldn't just CALL animal control, as there is currently no law

forbidding
cats to roam and destroy, but there is a law prohibiting DOGS from doing so.


That is how it should be. Cats represent no danger to humans - dogs
do.

It wasn't
even our cat, but looked similar to our cat, so they 'assumed' it belonged to us and
threatened harm if we didn't 'keep it from bothering their dog'.


As I said, such threats would be reported to the police.

Call me an 'abuser' all
you like. This baby isn't going any where near the outdoors.


The you are not just an abuser - but a very sick one.

I prefer to call myself a
'responsible' pet owner.


You would, but your lack of understanding of a cats needs makes your
an appallingly bad cat owner.

I am responsible for the behaviour of my kitties, as well as my
dog, and NONE of them are allowed off the property. They can go outside on leashes, or
attended if they obey me and stay in the yard (as my "son" did). They will soon have an
area that is 'enclosed' keeping them safely away from any predators, especially the

humans
predators, of the ignorant and violent persuasion, yet allowing them access to the

grass,
and sights and smells of outdoors.


Your animal abusing sickness seems to be very deep rooted. Maybe you
should seek treatment for your mental problems.

I am not going to turn this little darling outside, to find her headless body on my
doorstep as part of some nasty neighbor feud, simply because I wouldn't allow their dog

to
live at my house, eating my shoes and chewing up my garden hose.

One bad thing about domestication. We teach animals to trust humans. Sometimes I think
that is ultimately a bad thing. Like I tried to explain to a friend about

rehabbing
wild creatures. You must not imprint them too much, because that fear and mistrust of
humans may save their lives. Not all humans are kind and good.

Sorry, I have to go "abuse" my babies, it is time for their nightly snack of cream

and/or
tuna, and they have all taken turn to come remind me. They certainly have me very
well trained.


You really are sick.

D.

PS-The door was opened to let the dog 'do her business' for the night. All of the cats

ran
in the opposite direction as I held open the door, though I made no effort to stop them
going onto the porch. The dog went out long enough to accomplish what she had to, then
promptly sat at the door until I opened the screen for her to come in. I am thinking
they'd all rather be in this comfy A/C, lounging on comfy furniture, and licking the

tuna
from their chins, than 'roaming'......

--



Moronic posting style corrected. You have been charged $50 for this
service, please remit by international money order as a donation to
Cats Protection (cats.org.uk) within the next 7 days. Be warned that
repeated use of this service will incur a escalating rate of charges.

Mr. Brenchley-

Have you no better manners than to hurl unfounded insults at those who disagree with your
personal opinion? Shame on you.


After many years on cat groups trying to educated the ignorant - no.

I do not believe for one moment that you can sit on your self-righteous high horse and
sanctimoniously claim that you have no "cat haters" in the UK or Northern Ireland.


Where did I ever say that?

You've
folks there that kill other humans for their difference in religious beliefs. And you
expect me to believe that no one becomes enraged over the destruction of their property?


By cats? No, not really.

Oft times, it is not a hatred of the animal, but a resentment of the inconsiderate
neighbor who'd let them run amok, defacing things that do not belong to them, that spurs
the retaliatory behaviour, which is then taken out upon the unsuspecting, trusting pet.


People who do not like animals in their gardens have the right to keep
them out. They do not have the right to harm the animal though.

It is a matter of personal responsibility, and not only cats, but dogs, and any other pets
or livestock, and even extended to children, that are bound by this code of civility. You
don't break or destroy, or allow to be broken or destroyed, that which you do not own.
Anything less is vandalism, and the owner has every right to want retribution. Some owners
however, take less than legal forms of retribution, and the end victim ends up being the
poor trusting creature.

As for the antifreeze in EU, it is wonderful that you have only the non-toxic form.


Nope - not none-toxic. A chemical that is added makes the antifreeze
unpalatable to animals (and kids). The basic anti-freeze is the same.

However, I am sure you folks have rat poison. That is how Aja, my mother's beloved Persian
died. D-con mixed with canned cat food. The neighbors were upset that the cat used their
prize winning garden as a litter box. As it could not be proved, there was nothing we
could do, and it wouldn't have mattered. The kitty was dead, and no matter of finger
pointing or even criminal conviction would have brought him back.


But for the sake of other cats a criminal conviction would have
helped. Most people would not have rat poison, in fact I can't
remember the last time I saw any being used. And of course, tests
would soon link the poison to the death and then the police would
prosecute.

You say "Not many" cases of Feline Aids? Watch one of your babies waste slowly away,
slowly dying before your helpless hands, and say "How many?" is too many. To me, ONE is
too many. A generic "not many" doesn't cut it. I don't enjoy seeing any animal die in my
arms.


Life can never be without risk, but you try for the balance.

As for the neighbors making threats, you can report 'such threats' to police (I reported
them to animal control when I posted the cat as "found"-here you must post an animal as
found for three days, and when the 'owner' fails to come to the pound looking for them,
they belong to you).


Only three days? It really should be three weeks, which allows for
people taking a couple of weeks holiday and the cat going AWOL on the
first day.

However, you can't prosecute someone for what they *might* do. *IF*
they carry through, and *BIG IF* they can *PROVE* they did it, THEN AND ONLY THEN, will
they be held responsible.


Well if they make threats, that in itself can be a criminal offence,
but it would at least get them a warning from the police that they had
better not try anything. If something then happened to the cat, well
the police do not take being ignored like that very lightly.

But is it better to prevent the misdeed, than to attempt to gain
recompense after the fact? Would you allow your child to be murdered so you could
prosecute the guilty party?


Your stupidity is showing. A cat is NOT a child, by the age of a year
it is a full adult. Would you keep your sister in 24/7 just because
there is a risk she could be mugged or raped if she went out?

What you do is to look at your area, and if you consider it unsafe for
cats to freely roam for at least some time each day, then DON'T have
cats.

If you think animal torture to be infrequent, you must either by someone who doesn't watch
the news, or someone who is delusional. And the frequency is of no matter to the victim's
family. It only takes that once, to drive a stake of pain through their heart. The fact
that it hasn't happened often is of no consolation to those who lost a loved one.


But it is no excuse to ill-treat cats by keeping them indoors 24/7.

Even in the UK, some children are murdered by strangers - but that
does not mean we keep all our kids indoors 24/7. What it means is
that, as a society, we do all we can to catch and punish the murderers
- making it less likely that others will be tempted to follow suit.

I hope my "deep rooted" "sickness" and "abuse" of protecting and nurturing my animals with
the same care and tenderness


But you are NOT showing then care and tenderness - your are not
providing them with a proper life. At best the manage a rather meager
half-life, cut of from so much that is important to them.

that I show my human offspring spreads to every human. I have
had very few cats that ever desired to be outdoors.


Liar!

Even when THEY are given the choice,
they prefer to be indoors.


Well if you systematically abuse them long enough that is the sort of
miserable half-cat you get as a result.

Perhaps they know more than any of us give them credit for.
Those who truly love their animals would literally lay down their lives for them, and
would never intentionally put them in harms way.


You live in a very sad little dream world - life is a balance, and you
are not allowing your cat to live its life.

That includes in the path of a moving
car, an angry neighbor, or a disease infested wild animal, that picks a fight out of the
need to survive. No animal in my care will come to any harm at all,


Liar! You put your cats at greater risk of disease than I do, because
their immune systems will not be able to cope with things properly.
You put your cats at FAR greater risk when they do eventually escape
(as all cats do).

if I can at all help
it. They are all very healthy, happy, and loving, and that speaks volumes more truth, than
any opinion typed in ignorance.


The only ignorance is yours - animal abuser.

If you truly believe in all that you put in your posts, I feel very sorry for you, and for
the animals in your care. You must be a bitter, miserable person to be so hateful, and
contemptuous in the way you treat other people, and it makes me wonder how that translates
to how you treat those poor creatures who are in your care.

D.

--
Bob.

Alas, your intelligence qualifies you more for the primordial soup
than for the "master race." Recognize your limitations. Then shut
up.
 




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