(OT) I might be moving... purrs?

On Nov 3, 10:11*pm, "jmcquown" wrote:
"Yowie" wrote in message

...









,
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) typed:
jmcquown wrote:
I'm in a dispute with the home owners association and have an
appointment with a lawyer on Monday. *The home owners association
expects me to pay $278 a month to become a "member" of their club. *I
don't want to be a member of their "club". *As Groucho Marx said, "I
don't care to belong to any club that would have me as a member."

They're threatening to put a lein on my house if I don't join! *When
I called to ask what options I have the membership director
suggested I hire a lawyer and present my case before the board. *So
I did. *And I have a meeting with the lawyer on Monday.
That may not matter, Jill. *Many housing developments in the U.S. (no
longer just condominium complexes) seem to have "Homeowners
Associations" to which membership is compulsory. *Not only is dues a
legal obligation, but they can dictate what "improvements" you may or
may not make to your property.

I'm aware of all that. *But thanks! *Moving is now not an option. *For as
long as this house is on the market I'd still have to pay the property
taxes, the homeowners insurance (incl. SC Wind/Hail/Flood coverage). *It
could take 10 years to sell this place. *No, selling is no longer an option.

IANAL, especially not an American one, however, my understanding would be
that if there is some sort of legally binding community membership
requirement covering the property, then Jill, as legal owner, must meet
those requirements regardless of whether she "wants" to or not, regardless
of whether she wishes to make use of the services they provide or not,
and, as far as I understand the difference between US law and Australian
law, pay the required fees even if they are a complete rip-off in terms of
what those fees provide. It is part & parcel of owning property there and
would be covered in the deeds of the property.

I never got a copy of the "covenants" (as they call them). *How was I to
know about this requirement?

The interesting part is that apparently, Jill's parents "sold" their
membership, which suggests that the membership is /transferable/ and is
not strictly associated with the actual property. From my understanding of
the law (again, IANAL) Jill's liability is dependant on the terms on which
her parents sold their membership. If the membership can be fully
transferred into another's name, then the party responsible for any
further membership fees is the person who owns said membership, not the
current owner of the property (ie, Jill). She (or her lawyer) needs only
to prove legally that it is the purchasing party that has failed to pay,
and that they need to persue the owners of the *membership* and not the
owner of the *property* that the membership is associated with.

LOLOL! *Very interesting point! *Dad sold the membership back to the
association. *(And he had to pay them $1000 for doing so; I have a copy of
the check attached to the transfer.) *Then they sold it to someone else..
These people are greedy as hell, wouldn't you say?

However, if the sale of the membership was more like a 'lease' (you can
use our membership for a set amount of time for a set amount of money),
then if the other party and the property owner (ie, now Jill) hasn't
renewed the "lease" of the membership, then it would revert to the
property owner and therefore Jill is liable for any charges against the
membership once the membership became the property owner's responsibility
again. And HOA is right, they can make a claim against her property if she
does not pay.

I think I understood that. LOL *It's an annual membership.

HOWEVER, if she can "sell" the membership like her parents did, then she
would not be liable for the fees *in the future* and could live there
without paying future membership fees for as long as the conditions of the
sale of membership lasts.

The Board has to approve selling memberships. *And somehow I don't think
they're in the mood to do that right now. LOL

Either way, Jill is doing exactly the right thing by consulting a Real
Life lawyer.

Yes, I did consult an attorney who specializes in this sort of thing. *He
did say the state of South Carolina frowns upon HOA's that try to take
advantage of homeowners. *He had a bookshelf filled with notebooks of the
covenants/rules of the various HOA's in the area. *There is some question
about my father being able to sell his membership *after* the amendment to
the covenants stated *everyone* who owns property here must be a member.
That could work to our advantage. *I know darn good and well there have to
be other people living here who aren't members of anything. *I just don't
know who they are.

Jill, purrs that you & your lawyer can sort something out that you are
satisfied with.

Yowie

Thank you, Yowie.

Jill

Re your last paragraph re your father "selling" membership *before*
amendment to covenants
was passed: could it possibly be a state statute violation for the HOA
board to pass said
amendment *retroactive* to include current homeowners? Another
thought: the HOA of my
condo (and yes, I know you don't live in a condo) as well as
development (houses) HOAs
I know of in FL have intricate records as well as their covenant r&r's
in available by those archive
systems highly condensed online that require bigtime magnification to
read. I realize the idea
of this HOA doing so is far-fetched considering their behavior, but
then again, are the covenant
copies your attorney has in his office up-to-date? If not, could he
obtain more current ones from
the state or legal references?
Wishing you victory over these lowlifes and their greedy intent toward
you.

"jmcquown" wrote in
:


"hopitus" wrote in message
..
.
On Oct 29, 8:47 am, "MaryL" wrote:
"jmcquown" wrote in ...
"Pat" wrote in message

... "jmcquown"
wrote
I'm in a dispute with the home owners association and have an
appointment
with a lawyer on Monday. The home owners association expects me
to pay
$278 a month to become a "member" of their club.... They're
threatening
to put a lein on my house if I don't join!

What services are they providing for the fees they collect? Is it
a gated
community with 24/7 security? Do they mow your lawn weekly? Do
they have a
community center for residents? Tennis courts? Pool? Recreational
facilities? Gym? Did your parents pay these fees?

It *is* a gated community with 24/7 security. But I already pay
them $1800
a year annual assessment for that. No, they won't mow my lawn.
They do have a swimming pool and tennis courts but those aren't
something I'd use.
(I had those amenities at the last two apartments where I lived; I
didn't use them there, either.) The membership includes eating
dinner at The CLUB.
I gather they expect you to do so even if you don't want to. Years
ago when
I'd visit my parents we ate at the club. Each time the food was
just a boring, bland buffet. (I remember my father bitching about
*having* to eat
there.) My parents "sold" their membership in 2001. I have the
paperwork
about that.

I think the fact that I inherited the property should be taken into
consideration. It's not like I woke up one day and decided to move
here.

Jill

- - - - - - - - -

I don't have any legal training, but I doubt if the fact that it is
inherited property would gain you an exemption. You can say that
you did not ask to move there; they can respond that they did not
ask you to move there. The part of your message that sounds hopeful
is that you said your
parents "sold" their membership and you have the paperwork. I'm
sure there
will be a question about whether that type of membership can be
bought and
sold. Your lawyer will look into that, but I'm guessing that a lot
of your
case will hinge on that question. I certainly can't see any way
that you can be forced to eat at the club. I'm guessing that your
parents were responding to peer pressure, not legal codes.
Unfortunately, home owners associations have a lot of power, and
some of them have been abusive with that power.

MaryL

I got some revised paperwork in the mail today. Apparently they sent
me the wrong thing. (It's not any better this time around.) The
person highlighted "Annual Dining Minimum $1380 per year". That is in
addition to the "Social Membership". They DO expect you to eat at the
Club. And pay for it. It's not something I'm interested in doing.
(The couple of times I ate there with my parents when I visited over
the years the food was spectacularly unimpressive.)

Looks like I'll be putting the house on the market and getting the
hell out of Dodge. I'll be damned if I'm going let some committee
tell me how I have to live my life. Especially when they want to
charge me for it.

Jill



Sure hope your MOm didn't plan on keeping the house in the family.

"snokey" wrote in message
...
"jmcquown" wrote in
:


"hopitus" wrote in message
..
.
On Oct 29, 8:47 am, "MaryL" wrote:
"jmcquown" wrote in ...
"Pat" wrote in message

... "jmcquown"
wrote
I'm in a dispute with the home owners association and have an
appointment
with a lawyer on Monday. The home owners association expects me
to pay
$278 a month to become a "member" of their club.... They're
threatening
to put a lein on my house if I don't join!

What services are they providing for the fees they collect? Is it
a gated
community with 24/7 security? Do they mow your lawn weekly? Do
they have a
community center for residents? Tennis courts? Pool? Recreational
facilities? Gym? Did your parents pay these fees?

It *is* a gated community with 24/7 security. But I already pay
them $1800
a year annual assessment for that. No, they won't mow my lawn.
They do have a swimming pool and tennis courts but those aren't
something I'd use.
(I had those amenities at the last two apartments where I lived; I
didn't use them there, either.) The membership includes eating
dinner at The CLUB.
I gather they expect you to do so even if you don't want to. Years
ago when
I'd visit my parents we ate at the club. Each time the food was
just a boring, bland buffet. (I remember my father bitching about
*having* to eat
there.) My parents "sold" their membership in 2001. I have the
paperwork
about that.

I think the fact that I inherited the property should be taken into
consideration. It's not like I woke up one day and decided to move
here.

Jill

- - - - - - - - -

I don't have any legal training, but I doubt if the fact that it is
inherited property would gain you an exemption. You can say that
you did not ask to move there; they can respond that they did not
ask you to move there. The part of your message that sounds hopeful
is that you said your
parents "sold" their membership and you have the paperwork. I'm
sure there
will be a question about whether that type of membership can be
bought and
sold. Your lawyer will look into that, but I'm guessing that a lot
of your
case will hinge on that question. I certainly can't see any way
that you can be forced to eat at the club. I'm guessing that your
parents were responding to peer pressure, not legal codes.
Unfortunately, home owners associations have a lot of power, and
some of them have been abusive with that power.

MaryL

I got some revised paperwork in the mail today. Apparently they sent
me the wrong thing. (It's not any better this time around.) The
person highlighted "Annual Dining Minimum $1380 per year". That is in
addition to the "Social Membership". They DO expect you to eat at the
Club. And pay for it. It's not something I'm interested in doing.
(The couple of times I ate there with my parents when I visited over
the years the food was spectacularly unimpressive.)

Looks like I'll be putting the house on the market and getting the
hell out of Dodge. I'll be damned if I'm going let some committee
tell me how I have to live my life. Especially when they want to
charge me for it.

Jill



Sure hope your MOm didn't plan on keeping the house in the family.


She left it to me. I don't have children. My oldest brother has a son, but
since my mother didn't leave him so much as a wooden nickle I doubt she'd
want him to have the house.

Jill

snokey wrote:
"jmcquown" wrote in
:

Looks like I'll be putting the house on the market and getting the
hell out of Dodge. I'll be damned if I'm going let some committee
tell me how I have to live my life. Especially when they want to
charge me for it.

Jill



Sure hope your MOm didn't plan on keeping the house in the family.

Tough! (Parents have no right to bind their heirs to such arbitrary
demands upon their personal income, and I'm sure that was not her mom's
intention.) I've heard of a lot of HOA's that make unreasonable demands
upon homeowners, but this one really takes the cake! Jill's experience
is certainly a good warning to prospective home buyers to make damned
sure not to be suckered into buying property that includes a compulsory
HOA membership in the deal!!!!