(OT) I'm desperate

I sympathise with your situation. My mum hoards everything from paperclips
to bread bags. As a result, it's a continual effort to keep tidy for her.
I've had to slowly and painfully train myself out of hoarding, and I had
post-natal depression and anaemia for about a year. Ok here's my
learnt-from-experience tips to getting back on the bike.
1. Do one hour in each room each day-1/2 that for smaller rooms ie.
bathroom.
2. (now this is the hard one) Throw stuff out. These are my rules. If I
don't use it regularly, it goes. If it's broken and I'm not able to get it
fixed within the next month, it goes. If I haven't worn it in the last year,
it goes. If there isn't a very significant memory or person attached to it,
it goes. (more specifically, it must remind me of something special about a
special person, ie. a dog ornament a poodle belonging to an aunt who bred
poodles passes. An old train ticket from a holiday I have photos of gets
thrown out) This is very hard, and you must put feelings aside and think
clinically about it. Take a cold, hard look at your situation every time you
find yourself getting sentimental over an old jam jar.
3. Get out of your house and specifically spend time outside. If you have a
garden, garden. Start container gardening-easier on the back, easy to start
small. Grow tomatoes and petunias. Bring some life back into your life. If
you aren't up to gardening, visit a park each day, watch the birds, flowers,
and people. Green growing things are remarkably therapeutic.
4. Stop watching tv. Start reading your favourite childhood books again.
5.If you have people around you who are damaging, distance yourself
immediately. Practice being not at home when they call. Give yourself a
breather before seeing them again, and keep as much time between visits as
possible until you destress.
6. Most Importantly!!! Don't overwork!!! Choose a daily timeplan that suits
you, and don't go over it. Schedule in as much outside time and playtime
with your cats, and as much sleeptime as you schedule worktime. Good luck!!!

Pat wrote:
"Lorna" wrote

Pat - I wonder whether there might be a counseling facility in your area -
many will talk with you on a sliding fee arrangement (sometimes, next to
nothing) - I'm not qualified to judge but can't help wondering whether you
may be clinically depressed.

Yes, there is such a facility in this area, and yes, I am clinically
depressed. Have been for a very long time. But the counselors have never
done me a bit of good. I'm sure there are counselors on this earth who do
help people. But not around my area. So I quit going to them. (One guy was a
real sweetheart but all he did was sit for an hour and tell me his
troubles.)

Are you on anti-depressants? Having been CD (clinically depressed)
myself, I know that counseling (therapy, psycho analysis) alone would
not have helped me. I'm still depressed, but I managed to get a
"handle" on my depression "buttons", and am now off the medication
(took years, but hey...).


Another idea might be to attend a local church - don't go myself but have
seen a lot of good done by some of these folks. My daughter works at a
church and tells me that people (non-members) come to the church for
assistance/advice of every sort. You probably wouldn't even have to
attend to schedule an appointment with a minister - you really need to
talk with someone.

I suppose this is worth a try. I never thought of it because in the past
I've had such horrific experiences with assorted varieties of "Christian"
people, the vast majority of whom I have later regretted ever having trusted
in the first place. The horror stories I could tell you would make your hair
stand up. For instance my own niece, an avid church-goer and bible thumper,
once invited me to stay at her house when I wanted to leave my husband, who
had been abusive to me. I drove 2,500 miles with all the cats to get to her
place, and after a few days, her lesbian lover gave her an ultimatum... I
ended up having to drive the 2,500 miles back to where I started from,
before I even started to recover from the trip, which took the last of my
money and added immensely to my back trouble. But that was a mild example
compared with some other experiences which would take too long to relate.
Bottom line, I have learned to avoid self-proclaimed Christians, like the
plague.

Or a social agency might be able to direct you to some sort of
financial/medical?/etc help.
Please don't say you don't want to ask them for help - they wouldn't have
jobs if people didn't rurn to them.

I've gone this route. There is nothing they can offer me in the way of
household help.

Um, in what state do you live (you can reply directly to my email if
you like, it works and is unmunged)? In Colorado there is help
(including housekeeping) for disabled people and the elderly (you don't
sound old, so we'll go with good old DIFF abled). That help includes
having someone sleeping over at the home if it's needed.



I have a good friend whose house was in the shape yours sounds - she could
afford help but was too ashamed to have anyone in (including me). She
finally tackled one thing at a time, or even a piece of one thing, not
necessarily every day! One thing I've done with my own neglected
housework is to think what one thing accomplished would make me feel
best - and then do it that day(or the next). Sometimes I feel physically
exhausted just thinking of what needs to be done - so I do nothing

Could you vacuum one room? Or part of one room?

I do these little bits of work as often as I can. Problem is, the condition
of the house worsens due to normal activity quicker than I can deal with the
existing mess.

Pat, you have my sympathy, you really do. My house was like that a
couple of years ago. I did manage to get a handle on it, and clean it
up, but it took a long time. Once there, you are correct, it's very
easy to keep up. However, sometimes I lapse and my table (where I have
NEVER eaten a meal) is covered with mail and then other stuff (ah the
joys).

Smokie Darling (Annie)

Please write me off group if you'd like. I'm diff-abled (differently
abled). I have rheumatoid arthritis, osteo-arthritis, bursitis, and
fibromyalgia. I HATE HATE HATE fall and winter, but it's coming
anyway. At the least I can give you sympathy, at the best I may know
of something that may help.

Yowie wrote:
Pat wrote:

snip the problem of a messy house

Is there an answer to this dilemma, or am will I always have to "live" in a
house that resembles the result of a direct cyclone hit?


First, let me sympathise. Both Joel & I chronic slobs and our house
usually looks like a bomb hit it too. We suffer from CHAOS - Cant Have
Anyone Over Syndrome.

reluctant snipping of great advice

I also sympathise with you, Pat. There has been some really good advice
already given here, and I would only offer one other thing. I suggest
prioritizing those things that might have an impact on your health
and/or safety. In my mind, that would mostly be the kitchen, bathroom,
and (of course) the litter boxes. If all you can manage is to clean the
toilet, wash enough dishes for your next meal, scoop the boxes, and toss
any unidentified fuzzy objects from the fridge, that's a good start! As
for the clutter cleaning, something I've found works for me when the
living room is out of control is to gather some boxes and fill them with
the clutter. Then you aren't dealing with a room or a huge pile.
You're just dealing with *this* box. Also you can shove boxes around to
vaccum more easily than a pile. If I'm feeling up to it, when I fill
the boxes I might roughly sort stuff as it goes in - for example: one
box for cat toys, one box for papers to sort through, one box for
obvious recycling/trash/burn pile, etc. Finally, try to think of tools
that might help you clean. I have a toilet brush that is designated for
scrubbing the bathtub. It helps me get a better angle in a few places,
and it's easier on my back.

Hope this helps! {{{Pat}}}

- Denise Brennasmweowmy (who really needs to clear off the table, and
finish filing, and vaccum, and ...sigh)

"Denise VanDyke" wrote
I also sympathise with you, Pat. There has been some really good advice
already given here, and I would only offer one other thing. I suggest
prioritizing those things that might have an impact on your health and/or
safety. In my mind, that would mostly be the kitchen, bathroom, and (of
course) the litter boxes. If all you can manage is to clean the toilet,
wash enough dishes for your next meal, scoop the boxes, and toss any
unidentified fuzzy objects from the fridge, that's a good start! As for
the clutter cleaning, something I've found works for me when the living
room is out of control is to gather some boxes and fill them with the
clutter. Then you aren't dealing with a room or a huge pile. You're just
dealing with *this* box. Also you can shove boxes around to vaccum more
easily than a pile. If I'm feeling up to it, when I fill the boxes I
might roughly sort stuff as it goes in - for example: one box for cat
toys, one box for papers to sort through, one box for obvious
recycling/trash/burn pile, etc. Finally, try to think of tools that might
help you clean. I have a toilet brush that is designated for scrubbing
the bathtub. It helps me get a better angle in a few places, and it's
easier on my back.

I've lost count of the boxes I've filled and set aside. They're what's
covering the floor, many layers deep, and stuffed into closets, under the
bed, in the spare room, under the kitchen table and on the counters and
shelves, even atop the fridge and in the vehicles and even under the
house!!! They're what I have to search through every time I need something.
Literally dozens of boxes of stuff, all too needed to toss out, collecting
dust and inviting cats to sleep and pee in them. I try to empty a few at a
time and put the contents away....

Oddly, I don't have a problem with keeping the toilet and tub clean.

First, let me sympathise. Both Joel & I chronic slobs and our house
usually looks like a bomb hit it too. We suffer from CHAOS - Cant Have
Anyone Over Syndrome.

This is the most amazing thread! Nancy and I also suffer from CHAOS, and
I had no idea that so many other people did too.

Nancy and I have both been battling depression for years, have tried
different medications with varying but miniscule degrees of success.

Every once in a while life situations dictate that it will be necessary
for someone other than Nancy or I to enter the house. When this happens I
work frantically for a full day or more to get at least the living room
in such a state that I won't have to hang my head in shame when someone
else comes in. I still haven't been able to get a handle on the dishes
in the kitchen - maybe this weekend. But I really like the idea of boxing
all but two sets of everything.

YOu are suffering from depression. Go get medical help. The rest of your
life is a symptom of the depression - get the pain addressed *and* the
depression addressed, and that horrid great inertia that you suffer will
be 80% gone. Honest.

This was going to be my advice as well. We're well acquainted with how
devastating depression is. Pat, it's perfectly normal for a depressed
person to lack the drive to do the basic things, like keep a house that's
not a disaster. It's all I can do to keep the living room navigable, and
requires all-out weekend campaigns sometimes just to do that. By all
means, see if you can find an antidepressant that will help you get a
handle on the depression, and maybe find a way to alleviate some of the
pain. Then you could reasonably expect to be able to start to make some
progress.

I wish I lived within reasonable driving distance; I'd be glad to help
out for a weekend.

Dan

"Dan M" wrote

I wish I lived within reasonable driving distance; I'd be glad to help
out for a weekend.

Geez, too bad you quit driving the truck, or you might actually be able to
get here without much of a detour sometime!

"Pat" wrote in message
...
I haven't got a clue how to solve a certain problem, and it's not one that
I can resolve alone. It's very hard for me to ask for help with this, too,
but I'm praying that one of you will have an answer for me.

I know I can't solve this for you. I'd publish and make millions if I
could. First and foremost in your situation, I'd be looking for a good
antidepressant.

As it is, I stay on Paxil all the time, and just have to up the dose if
thing get out of hand. And thank my lucky stars that I'm somewhat bi-polar
and do have days when I can do anything and everything. Of course a couple
of days like that and my arthritis puts me in bed, but at least I get the
laundry caught up and the kitchen floor done in the meantime.

Some of what works for us. I try to do a end of day analysis to make sure
we are no further behind on anything than we were that morning. Even the
tiniest progress add up if you don't slide back.

When the mail arrives, anything that isn't first class goes into the trash
unopened. Doesn't even make it into the house. (This makes Charlie a
little crazy) Then the rest of the mail gets opened ASAP - within a week
anyway - and any parts that aren't necessary go out in the trash. All the
extra stuff in the envelope, the envelope, the return envelope etc. I pay
bills online so don't need anything but the actual bill.

I no longer subscribe to any magazines. If I buy a magazine and bring it
into the house, I try to throw away an older one. Charlie has permission to
throw away any magazine over two months old. There is a storage box for all
the mail that is left that I have to do something about. And there is
another storage box for the year of paid bills and mail I need to keep for a
while.

Newspapers go into the trash daily. If we were to actually need anything
from an old one, the library files them or I can look it up online.

And I remind myself, I've just about never regretted anything I've thrown
away.

Jo

"Denise VanDyke" wrote in message
I also sympathise with you, Pat. There has been some really good advice
already given here, and I would only offer one other thing. I suggest
prioritizing those things that might have an impact on your health and/or
safety. In my mind, that would mostly be the kitchen, bathroom, and (of
course) the litter boxes. If all you can manage is to clean the toilet,
wash enough dishes for your next meal, scoop the boxes, and toss any
unidentified fuzzy objects from the fridge, that's a good start! As for
the clutter cleaning, something I've found works for me when the living
room is out of control is to gather some boxes and fill them with the
clutter. Then you aren't dealing with a room or a huge pile. You're just
dealing with *this* box. Also you can shove boxes around to vaccum more
easily than a pile. If I'm feeling up to it, when I fill the boxes I
might roughly sort stuff as it goes in - for example: one box for cat
toys, one box for papers to sort through, one box for obvious
recycling/trash/burn pile, etc. Finally, try to think of tools that might
help you clean. I have a toilet brush that is designated for scrubbing
the bathtub. It helps me get a better angle in a few places, and it's
easier on my back.

I also sympathize. My project for the month is to clear my clutter. There
is a very good website called www.flylady.com that has some very good advice
on clutter busting and maintenance.

Susan M
Otis and Chester

"Pat" wrote in message
...
I haven't got a clue how to solve a certain problem, and it's not one that
I can resolve alone. It's very hard for me to ask for help with this, too,
but I'm praying that one of you will have an answer for me.

I have read the whole post, I'll answer it a bit at a time. You have
recognised that things are out of control and asked for help, which is good
and the first step towards getting some.

It's my house, which is so dirty and disorganized that even the cats hate
it.

Cats do not care how tidy/untidy the house is. They are non-judgmental
about that sort of thing, as long as you feed them and care for them they
are fine.

I plug away at it when I have time (rarely) and energy (more rarely still)
but it's too much for me. I get about halfway through washing the dishes
and have to quit because my back hurts so badly.

It's been this way for more the last five years, except for a short time
earlier this year, when I "went all out" to get it ready for the
cat-sitters who didn't stay due to an allergy to the mold in the bedroom
wall. It took two months of working on it several hours a day, to get it
to a somewhat satisfactory condition.

I wish I lived in your state, or even in your country. I would come for a
week and help you if I could. It would not shock me to see the state of
your place. It can get like that very easily when you have clinical
depression and will not be able to be tackled until the depression is under
control. All the things you describe, unable to bother to go shopping,
unable to make yourself meals, change bed, hoover, housework totally out of
control is *so* typical of clinical depression, Pat. I've been there.
I lost 3 stone in weight through not shopping and feeding myself when I got
depression in 03 after my mom was suddenly found dead, and I got quite
frail.
Depression is a strange thing. People who've never had it don't understand,
they say "pull yourself together." which is stupid because you cannot, it's
an illness, not a state of mind.

Since that time my health has worsened to the point that I could not do
the same thing again, but if the place was thoroughly clean and organized,
I could keep it that way. As it is now, I spend far too much time
searching for things that have gotten lost in the clutter - time that I
could be using to keep it in good shape, if it was in good shape to begin
with.

So, it's a no-win situation, and it is driving me insane.

You need to go to your doctor and come clean about your situation. He
should prescribe you with a good anti-depressant, although they do take a
while to work there is something to look forward to, feeling better again in
a few weeks and able to function again.
You might ask him if he can refer you to a local Community Mental Health
Team if you have them in the USA, they can do amazing things here by getting
in a cleaning team to blitz an out-of-control cleaning situation for free to
set someone on the road again.

This probably doesn't sound as bad as it really is, but I don't think I
can say in words just how bad it is, and it's been this bad, or worse, for
such a long time that I absolutely can't stand it anymore.

Let me try to describe how bad it is.

I haven't seen more than a square foot at a time of my living room floor
since April. The carpet hasn't been vacuumed since February. The same
sheets have been on the bed since May. I can't recognize half the food in
the fridge. The bar in the closet fell down, and the clothing laid on the
floor for almost three months before I felt strong and energetic enough to
move it and fix the bar and hang everything back up.

It's almost more than I can handle now to keep the cat boxes scooped out
and keep myself alive. I don't often have time to go to town and shop for
food, so half the time I just go without eating because there is nothing
in the house aside from oatmeal or something like that, and I get so sick
of it that I don't want to eat more of whatever it is for a long time to
come.

I was like that. Unable to motivate myself to cook or shop. My cousin saw
the way I was going and took me to the doctor. I have got well again
through what he prescribed and some counselling.

There is no one I can ask to help me get the house in order. No relatives
or friends, and I can't afford hired help, but if I could afford to pay
someone, I am sure they would take one look and then turn and RUN away as
fast as possible.

In a good daydream, some bright and cheerful person who likes and cares
about me, comes and stays here for a spell and works with me until it's
all set right - whether that takes a few days or a week or more - and
finds the process rewarding, even joyful.

I would advise you to approach a local church, like others have said, it
doesn't really matter what denomination. Speak to the minister and be
honest about your situation, explain what has happened and why, that you
can't see a way out of it, have no friends or relatives, and ask if there is
any help you could get to get yourself back on track. I feel sure you will
be helped.

But when I come back to reality and realize I know no such person, my
depression deepens, and that makes the pain in my back worse.

So, how on earth can I get out of this vicious cycle? A few times I've
tried drinking coffee and ended up with even more pain in my back due to
the strain coffee puts on my kidneys, which are not very strong to begin
with.

Is there an answer to this dilemma, or am will I always have to "live" in
a house that resembles the result of a direct cyclone hit?



Yes, there is an answer, and no, you won't have to always live like that.
You have started already by asking for help here.
Ask a church minister if his members will help. They will.
Go to the doctor and get treatment for your clinical depression. This is
the most important.
I know what it's like, Pat. Been there.

Tweed

On Wed, 5 Oct 2005 18:06:47 -0500, "Pat"
wrote:

I haven't got a clue how to solve a certain problem, and it's not one that I
can resolve alone. It's very hard for me to ask for help with this, too, but
I'm praying that one of you will have an answer for me.

It's my house, which is so dirty and disorganized that even the cats hate
it. I plug away at it when I have time (rarely) and energy (more rarely
still) but it's too much for me. I get about halfway through washing the
dishes and have to quit because my back hurts so badly.

It's been this way for more the last five years, except for a short time
earlier this year, when I "went all out" to get it ready for the cat-sitters
who didn't stay due to an allergy to the mold in the bedroom wall. It took
two months of working on it several hours a day, to get it to a somewhat
satisfactory condition.

Since that time my health has worsened to the point that I could not do the
same thing again, but if the place was thoroughly clean and organized, I
could keep it that way. As it is now, I spend far too much time searching
for things that have gotten lost in the clutter - time that I could be using
to keep it in good shape, if it was in good shape to begin with.

So, it's a no-win situation, and it is driving me insane.

This probably doesn't sound as bad as it really is, but I don't think I can
say in words just how bad it is, and it's been this bad, or worse, for such
a long time that I absolutely can't stand it anymore.

Let me try to describe how bad it is.

I haven't seen more than a square foot at a time of my living room floor
since April. The carpet hasn't been vacuumed since February. The same sheets
have been on the bed since May. I can't recognize half the food in the
fridge. The bar in the closet fell down, and the clothing laid on the floor
for almost three months before I felt strong and energetic enough to move it
and fix the bar and hang everything back up.

It's almost more than I can handle now to keep the cat boxes scooped out and
keep myself alive. I don't often have time to go to town and shop for food,
so half the time I just go without eating because there is nothing in the
house aside from oatmeal or something like that, and I get so sick of it
that I don't want to eat more of whatever it is for a long time to come.

There is no one I can ask to help me get the house in order. No relatives or
friends, and I can't afford hired help, but if I could afford to pay
someone, I am sure they would take one look and then turn and RUN away as
fast as possible.

In a good daydream, some bright and cheerful person who likes and cares
about me, comes and stays here for a spell and works with me until it's all
set right - whether that takes a few days or a week or more - and finds the
process rewarding, even joyful.

But when I come back to reality and realize I know no such person, my
depression deepens, and that makes the pain in my back worse.

So, how on earth can I get out of this vicious cycle? A few times I've tried
drinking coffee and ended up with even more pain in my back due to the
strain coffee puts on my kidneys, which are not very strong to begin with.

Is there an answer to this dilemma, or am will I always have to "live" in a
house that resembles the result of a direct cyclone hit?




{{{Pat}}}} I feel for you, I really do. I have the same problem, but
not as bad.

All I can tell you is what I've heard/read/been suggested to me.

Start small. Start with the most important stuff. Do only what you
can, but whenever you think you can do one thing, do it.

Organizing: you have to separate -- one pile to be thrown away,
another to be kept. Then you break it down from there. Throw away
the junk immediately. And be brutal about getting rid of things.

Since the big problem appears to be your pain, see if your doctor has
a social worker available who may be able to get you some help to get
the place cleaned up a bit. Sometimes they do. Depends on what you're
eligible for.

I really hope someone can help or some of our ideas, and I hope you
are feeling better soon.

Ginger-lyn

Home Pages:
http://www.spiritrealm.com/summer/
http://www.angelfire.com/folk/glsummer (homepage & cats)
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb....mmer/index.htm (genealogy)
http://www.movieanimals.bravehost.com/ (The Violence Against
Animals in Movies Website)