Help desperately needed

"Susan M" smawdsley remove @shaw.ca wrote in message
news:LR5vd.498099$%k.380432@pd7tw2no...
"Susan M" smawdsley remove @shaw.ca wrote in message
news:au5vd.474833$Pl.108635@pd7tw1no...

I figured it was betting that not "having him put down" but, to be
honest

Yikes - that Baileys really affected me. It should say, it was better
than
not "having him put down" ... I should explain that - we have a cat
by-law here. Otis, who is my little kitty soulmate and wild cat, *had* to
go outside. I had a neighbour that complained so that put me in the
wrong.
Because of his bladder issues and desperate primal need to go outside, I
didn't feel that I could re-home him. I couldn't keep him in because he
got
so sick and peed everywhere out of pain and frustration. My only other
option, rather than taking him to a farm with an expected 2 week life
expectancy, was this darn fence combined with Prozac. Of course I didn't
make the choice to have him expercience some shocks with warning lightly
or
with a happy heart - I really felt that it was a life or death situation
for
him. And it was.

I guess that I get a little upset about this. It's sort of like when we
had
our first child, who screamed 24/7 for 18 months, never napped, and only
slept if latched onto me. I had a friend tell me that, if I just
relaxed
a little bit, my daughter would stop screaming. I was wondering which
came
first, me being a little tense or my daughter screaming 24/7 - let alone
nursing while chewing with teeth to calm herself. It was hell and we had
a
outlier child. I know this because my son, for whom we did nothing
different, is a total sleep angel who is always happy and would tell us
when
he was tired and needed to go to bed. My daughter is still a Siamese-type
outlier on scale of hard to easy kids. My son remains Persian on the
scale.
Sleep training worked with my son but we gave up after three hours of
crying
and barfing for my daughter. She was really upset and *really* needed to
be
with us. She has been diagnosed with anxiety issues now (social anxiety
and
selective mutism - from which is she making a stunning recovery) that were
likely the cause of her behaviour then. So, much as I chaffed at hearing
that all kids respond to sleep training (meaning letting them cry until
they
go to sleep) and could sleep on their own then, I chaff I hearing that all
cats can stay inside.

So, I'm off topic. I've kept my mouth firmly sealed on this lovely ng
since
I'm so hyper conscious of the gracious way in which this ng has avoided
flame wars on the topic. So, I'm hear to say, don't hate me because I let
my cat out. My vet told me that I had gone further in trying to deal with
Otis' elimination issues than any of his other clients would have. He
said
that most people would have asked that their cat be put down. I die a
thousand deaths every time I let them out. I am ridiculously responsible
about the times that he is out because we *do* live near a natural area,
albeit accross a big high fence, where there are coyotes at night. Otis
and
I talked about it, I told him to be safe, and I feel that its what I must
do
for him. No more bloody paws, no more Prozac, no more food supplements,
no
more ruined carpets.

As you can see, I specialise in outliers - my daughter and my cat - and I
can relate to them because I am one myself. Kind of quirky but
ultimately,
I think, pretty sensitive and thoughtful :-)

Susan M
Otis and Chester
... who will likely have a tiney hangover tomorrow AM

Susan, I didn't take offense - I hope you didn't take offense at what I
said. You've changed my opinion, I guess I've always just had cats who were
able to be kept inside 24/7. Also, all of mine, except Jessie, have been
with us since they were wee kittens and haven't known anything else. So
pass the salt and I'll eat my words! ;

BTW, my first, a daughter, cried 24/7 - she had colic that was relentless.
We had to move out of our apartment because of it. My pediatrician said
that most babies who have that combination of problems are usually very
intelligent - I think she was right in my daughter's case, of course ;, but
she could have just been trying to make me feel better. Then my son came
along and he didn't cry, but he was also hyperactive. Thankfully I too have
ADHD so I could keep up with them, but they were 13 months apart in age and
only slept an average of 3 - 4 hours a night and *never* took a nap during
the day, so I can relate! AT 31 and 32 they are now happy, healthy adults
with happy, healthily families of their own, so everything worked out in the
end.

Hugs,

CatNipped

"Lois Reay" wrote in message
news
This morning I received a phone call from a woman who is desperately in
need
of help, I did what I could do to try and solve her problem and then said
I
would go to my ng to see if I could get further advice - I just know that
someone will have the answer.

Here is the problem the woman has a 3 year old Siamese cat which is going
over the back fence and upsetting an 18 year old cat, the owners of the 18
year old are understandably getting very annoyed, I don't think that the
3yr
old is actually beating up the old cat but is terrorising it to such an
extent that it has started soiling inside the house.

I did point out to the lady that the soiling could have something to do
with
the cats age and could have a medical condition - but I also think that
the
old cat should be able to live out the rest of it's life in peace.

This lady wants any tips on how to keep her cat on her side of the fence -
I
did suggest leaving the hose sprinkler on (the 3yr old doesn't like water)
Keeping the 3yr old confined to the house during the day is not am option
(she is locked in at night)

Any help would be very much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Lois

--
http://zeotropeburmese.kiwiwebhost.net.nz
--
Burmese are like potato chips, you can't just have one.



Lois, I have this thoughts -- if the Siamese owner is willing to try it --
I'd suggest building an outside enclosure for Mr. Siamese, with a cat door
so he could go in and out of the house but still be outside -- he'd be safe;
he'd still get to go outside and sun but he wouldn't be able to harass Ms.
Old Lady Kitty. Truly, this would be my ideal choice for my 5 kitties, too,
and I'd planned to try and work something out along these lines this past
summer but money was tight for me and it didn't happen yet. Maybe the
gentleman who built Bev's cat house could come up with some ideas. My idea
was more along the idea of a chain link fence enclosure idea although I know
for a fact that there are plans for cat enclosures that you can build
yourself online. I'll look and see if I bookmarked any of these sites and
if so, I'll post them separately to this thread.

I sincerely hope this may help your friend.
Christine

"Susan M" smawdsley remove @shaw.ca wrote in message
news:Sn5vd.474815$Pl.252880@pd7tw1no...
"Susan M" smawdsley remove @shaw.ca wrote in message
news:Uh5vd.474794$Pl.34438@pd7tw1no...
We have a motion activated sprinkler which we can lend to those who are
frustrated by our outside cats bugging inside cats. They're available
at
most high-end cat stores.

Sorry - I shared a bottle of Bailey's while doing Christmas baking with a
friend of mine today. It should be, high end *Garden* stores - not cat
stores. Cats are creatures of habit. Once they stop visiting because of
the sprinkler, they tend to leave it out of their daily rotation. Boy
cats
particularly seem to have a route that they travel a couple of times every
day out of habit. Add a sprinkler, and the house drops off the route
usually for a very long time.

Susan M
Otis and CHester

Thanks for that Susan, I will pass that onto Jane tomorrow - I think there
is a lot of tension between the two neighbours, Jane has given her
neighbours permission to put the hose on her cat.

Lois

"MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER wrote in message
...



Here are some sites that show a variety of methods to modify fences to
keep
cats in (or out) ---

Design for do-it-yourself barrier to mount on top of fence (to keep cats
in):

http://www.lisaviolet.com/cathouse/backyard.html

Outdoor fence enclosure (several views):

http://www.just4cats.com/

http://www.just4cats.com/post1.html

http://www.just4cats.com/page7.html

A guide to inexpensive do-it-yourself fencing:

http://www.feralcat.com/fence.html

Cat fence-in containment system:

http://www.catfencein.com/

http://www.fabcats.org

(includes an information sheet you can download)

"Friendly Fence": web site says it is virtually invisible

www.friendlyfence.com

Other ideas for outdoor fencing for cats:

http://www.just4cats.com/page7.html

http://www.cat-world.com.au/cat-worldenclosures.htm

http://www.lisaviolet.com/cathouse/backyard.html

KittyKlips - addition to existing wood fence to prevent cats from climbing
[note: but would not prevent cats on "other" side of fence from getting
in]:

http://kittyklips.com/details.htm

MaryL

Thanks Mary I will ask Jane if she has a computer, if so I will forward the
web sites onto her.

Lois

CatNipped wrote:
"Lois Reay" wrote in message
news
This morning I received a phone call from a woman who is desperately
in
need
of help, I did what I could do to try and solve her problem and then
said
I
would go to my ng to see if I could get further advice - I just know
that someone will have the answer.

Here is the problem the woman has a 3 year old Siamese cat which is
going over the back fence and upsetting an 18 year old cat, the
owners of the 18 year old are understandably getting very annoyed, I
don't think that the
3yr
old is actually beating up the old cat but is terrorising it to such
an extent that it has started soiling inside the house.

I did point out to the lady that the soiling could have something to
do
with
the cats age and could have a medical condition - but I also think
that
the
old cat should be able to live out the rest of it's life in peace.

This lady wants any tips on how to keep her cat on her side of the
fence -
I
did suggest leaving the hose sprinkler on (the 3yr old doesn't like
water) Keeping the 3yr old confined to the house during the day is
not am option (she is locked in at night)

Any help would be very much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Lois

--
http://zeotropeburmese.kiwiwebhost.net.nz
--
Burmese are like potato chips, you can't just have one.

I don't see why the cat can't be kept inside - all four of mine do
and are perfectly happy, and Victor has *SEVEN* that all stay inside
happily. As long as they have enough toys, scratching posts, and
litter boxes, there's really no reason for them to be outside with
all the dangers they encounter (not to mention the dangers they
sometimes cause as is the case here).

Hugs,

CatNipped

I have *eight* that stay in 24/7, I would say 365, but there are occasions
when they have to go to TED, and that means that they get to go outside,
even if it is in a carrier.

--?
The ONE and ONLY
lefthanded-pathetic-paranoid-psychotic-sarcastic-wiseass-ditzy
former-blonde in Bloomington! (And proud of it, too)© email me at
nalee1964 (at) insightbb (dot) com
http://community.webshots.com/user/mgcmdjeep

"Lois Reay" wrote in message
...
"jmcquown" wrote in message
. ..
Okay, the cat is inside at night.... what makes her think it won't make
the
adjustment to being inside during the day, too? There are plenty of
folks
on this group who have managed to tame ferals who were never inside at
all
into being indoor cats.

Aside from (as others have said) expensive fencing and the sprinklers or
squirt gun things, I don't know what else to suggest.

Jill

Thanks Jill,
I will pass on all the information to the lady when she phones me in the
morning, it will then be up to her which way she wants to go, and I do
agree
keeping the Siamese inside would cure the problem.

Lois


Lois,
I just did a Yahoo and Google search and came up with these links below
regarding possibities re cat enclosures; I sure hope it will help your
friend. (the first 4 listed are Australia links)
Best wishes,
Christine

http://www.cat-world.com.au/cat-worldenclosures.htm

http://www.catnip.com.au/

http://www.flippyscatpage.com/enclosures.html

http://www.hotkey.net.au/~harvard/enclosures.htm

http://www.corporatevideo.com/klips/secret.htm (this looked interesting to
me -- also read the comments people made about the product ; more tips
there)

http://home.earthlink.net/~geminimarge/id6.html

http://jomammatee.no-ip.com/journey//enclosures.html and
http://www.animalnetwork.com/cats/enclosure.asp

http://petplace.netscape.com/article...asp?artID=2974

This lady wants any tips on how to keep her cat on her side of the fence - I
did suggest leaving the hose sprinkler on (the 3yr old doesn't like water)
Keeping the 3yr old confined to the house during the day is not am option
(she is locked in at night)

Any help would be very much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Lois

Here's what I did to kitty-proof our back yard.

We had some gaps a few inches wide between the fince posts and the wall
of the house - wide enough for little kittens to get through. I cut some
pieces of 2x4 about 4 feet long, stuffed them into the gaps, and
fastened them with nylon tie-wraps.

I was at a loss as to how to prevent them from climbing over the top. I
added a piece of plastic netting about 3 feet wide to the top of the
fence, using PVC pipe and elbows so that the netting angled into the
yard. That kept Cleo and Amelia from getting out, but Tabitha and Samuel
had no problem going right over the netting.

The solution I finally arrived at sounds a bit harsh, but it works. I
went to Petco and bought a small-animal electric fence. It sends out a
charge about once a second, and the charge is enough to sting but not
injure. I know, I've touched it several times! Sammy and Tabitha both
tried climbing the fence exactly twice after the fence went up. They
both got up to the charged wire, touched it with a paw, got "bit", and
dropped back to the ground. They learned quickly that the silver wire bites.

That was over a year ago. I no longer have to even plug the fence in.
The young ones remember their previous experiences, and don't even try
to leave the yard now.

I know that some folks will think an electric fence, even one
specifically made for small animals, is excessively harsh. But I feel
that it's a lot less harsh than denying them the outdoors that they love
so much, or letting over the fence where they could get lost or killed.

Dan

Susan, you are doing a super job with your two outliers. I am so
impressed with your patience and perseverance. I am glad to hear that
your daughter is recovering and things are improving with Otis. Hang
in there!
Hugs and purrs,
--
Britta
Sandpaper kisses, a cuddle and a purr. I have an alarm clock that's
covered in fur!
Check out pictures of Vino at:
http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album



"Susan M" smawdsley remove @shaw.ca wrote in message
news:LR5vd.498099$%k.380432@pd7tw2no...
"Susan M" smawdsley remove @shaw.ca wrote in message
news:au5vd.474833$Pl.108635@pd7tw1no...

I figured it was betting that not "having him put down" but, to be
honest

Yikes - that Baileys really affected me. It should say, it was
better than
not "having him put down" ... I should explain that - we have a
cat
by-law here. Otis, who is my little kitty soulmate and wild cat,
*had* to
go outside. I had a neighbour that complained so that put me in the
wrong.
Because of his bladder issues and desperate primal need to go
outside, I
didn't feel that I could re-home him. I couldn't keep him in
because he got
so sick and peed everywhere out of pain and frustration. My only
other
option, rather than taking him to a farm with an expected 2 week
life
expectancy, was this darn fence combined with Prozac. Of course I
didn't
make the choice to have him expercience some shocks with warning
lightly or
with a happy heart - I really felt that it was a life or death
situation for
him. And it was.

I guess that I get a little upset about this. It's sort of like
when we had
our first child, who screamed 24/7 for 18 months, never napped, and
only
slept if latched onto me. I had a friend tell me that, if I just
relaxed
a little bit, my daughter would stop screaming. I was wondering
which came
first, me being a little tense or my daughter screaming 24/7 - let
alone
nursing while chewing with teeth to calm herself. It was hell and
we had a
outlier child. I know this because my son, for whom we did nothing
different, is a total sleep angel who is always happy and would tell
us when
he was tired and needed to go to bed. My daughter is still a
Siamese-type
outlier on scale of hard to easy kids. My son remains Persian on
the scale.
Sleep training worked with my son but we gave up after three hours
of crying
and barfing for my daughter. She was really upset and *really*
needed to be
with us. She has been diagnosed with anxiety issues now (social
anxiety and
selective mutism - from which is she making a stunning recovery)
that were
likely the cause of her behaviour then. So, much as I chaffed at
hearing
that all kids respond to sleep training (meaning letting them cry
until they
go to sleep) and could sleep on their own then, I chaff I hearing
that all
cats can stay inside.

So, I'm off topic. I've kept my mouth firmly sealed on this lovely
ng since
I'm so hyper conscious of the gracious way in which this ng has
avoided
flame wars on the topic. So, I'm hear to say, don't hate me because
I let
my cat out. My vet told me that I had gone further in trying to
deal with
Otis' elimination issues than any of his other clients would have.
He said
that most people would have asked that their cat be put down. I
die a
thousand deaths every time I let them out. I am ridiculously
responsible
about the times that he is out because we *do* live near a natural
area,
albeit accross a big high fence, where there are coyotes at night.
Otis and
I talked about it, I told him to be safe, and I feel that its what I
must do
for him. No more bloody paws, no more Prozac, no more food
supplements, no
more ruined carpets.

As you can see, I specialise in outliers - my daughter and my cat -
and I
can relate to them because I am one myself. Kind of quirky but
ultimately,
I think, pretty sensitive and thoughtful :-)

Susan M
Otis and Chester
... who will likely have a tiney hangover tomorrow AM

Thanks Christine

--
http://zeotropeburmese.kiwiwebhost.net.nz
--
Burmese are like potato chips, you can't just have one.
"Christine Burel" wrote in message
...

"Lois Reay" wrote in message
...
"jmcquown" wrote in message
. ..
Okay, the cat is inside at night.... what makes her think it won't
make
the
adjustment to being inside during the day, too? There are plenty of
folks
on this group who have managed to tame ferals who were never inside at
all
into being indoor cats.

Aside from (as others have said) expensive fencing and the sprinklers
or
squirt gun things, I don't know what else to suggest.

Jill

Thanks Jill,
I will pass on all the information to the lady when she phones me in the
morning, it will then be up to her which way she wants to go, and I do
agree
keeping the Siamese inside would cure the problem.

Lois


Lois,
I just did a Yahoo and Google search and came up with these links below
regarding possibities re cat enclosures; I sure hope it will help your
friend. (the first 4 listed are Australia links)
Best wishes,
Christine

http://www.cat-world.com.au/cat-worldenclosures.htm

http://www.catnip.com.au/

http://www.flippyscatpage.com/enclosures.html

http://www.hotkey.net.au/~harvard/enclosures.htm

http://www.corporatevideo.com/klips/secret.htm (this looked interesting
to
me -- also read the comments people made about the product ; more tips
there)

http://home.earthlink.net/~geminimarge/id6.html

http://jomammatee.no-ip.com/journey//enclosures.html and
http://www.animalnetwork.com/cats/enclosure.asp

http://petplace.netscape.com/article...asp?artID=2974

Lois Reay wrote:

This lady wants any tips on how to keep her cat on her side of the fence - I
did suggest leaving the hose sprinkler on (the 3yr old doesn't like water)
Keeping the 3yr old confined to the house during the day is not am option
(she is locked in at night)

Any help would be very much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.



Can the lady have an enclosure built for the cat? Ours is 12 X 16 X 9
and has ramps, shelves, climbing posts, and observation areas to give
them a varied outlook and yet keep them safe. The only problem we're
currently having is that Speedy, the d-thing, thinks that he's suposed
to free them from their confinement. He was caught digging under the
edge of the fence; the only place he's tried to dig at in the yard.

Said enclosure wasn't cheap ($500 US) but we used expensive storm
treated lumber so that it would last longer, and sheep fencing, as it is
tougher than regular fencing. Would an enclosure be an option?

Other than that, I really have no ideas how she can keep peace between
the neighbors, unless they do as someone else suggested and set up a
mutually agreed upon schedule for letting each cat out.

Pam S.