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#211
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CatNipped wrote:
How inexcusably rude! I've been saying this for years - there is one form of prejudice, intolerance and discrimination that it's still perfectly OK for people to display - prejudice against large people (I won't even say overweight because if you're fit and healthy then what you weigh may be just right for your body type and you're not overweight at all!). I don't have any problem with the word "fat" myself. It's just an innocent adjective, like "tall", "short", and "thin." There's no judgement implied, unless the speaker adds a negative attitude to it. I wouldn't use the word "fat" to describe a person I don't know well, though, because so many people feel deeply insulted or humiliated by it. So I use words like "big", "large", "heavy", or, perhaps "zaftig", a Yiddish word for chubby or full-figured. (The word literally means "juicy", which tells you something about that culture's attitudes about body size! ) The word "overweight" really sets my teeth on edge, especially when directed at me. It's *inherently* judgemental - the implication is that you've gone *over* some norm. But as you said, if one is fit and healthy, then what's the problem? The irony of it is that many people consider the word "fat" to be rude, and say "overweight" to be polite. My reactions to each word is quite the opposite. I lost 100 pounds and it did make all my medical problems go away (I was not supposed to weigh what I weighed for my body type). However, I had no idea how it would change how people treated me. Isn't that amazing? And being treated differently, in both obvious and subtle ways, day in and day out, is going to change your perception of yourself and the world. It's going to change how you feel day in and day out. Little things you'd never notice, like getting smiles from people on the bus instead of unfriendly stares or glances. When you were bigger, you might have just dismissed that sort of unfriendliness as people's bad moods or general unhappiness with life. To suddenly start being treated with more respect and warmth, in stores, on the street, etc, must change a person's outlook and mood a great deal. Then they'll say, "Ever since I lost weight, I've been so much happier!" They think it's the fat that makes them unhappy, when in fact, it's the prejudice. I take no credit in losing all that weight, my surgeon did all the work (I do exercise a lot, but I always liked to exercise, I just couldn't at my weight), but people keep congratulating me like I'd won the lottery. They tell me how good I look I know someone who has intractable seizure disorder, and several years ago she had a severe episode of uncontrolled seizures, which resulted in her being hospitalized for 3 weeks, part of the time in Intensive Care. During that time, she lost about 30 pounds. By the time she was released, she looked gaunt, frail and sickly (which she was - she could hardly walk across the room on her own). But people saw her and told her how great she looked after losing all that weight. OK, maybe part of that was just their attempt to make her feel better about the fact that she really looked TERRIBLE - at least they could focus on her weight loss. But she was really annoyed at people's harping on her weight, as though something wonderful had occurred. We used to make jokes about the All! New! Really Effective! SEIZURE DIET!! Lose 30 pounds in 3 weeks - wheeee! I'd like to see what would happen if a television show made fun of a member of an ethnic minority like they make fun of large people. I'd like to see what would happen if employers discriminated against a member of an ethnic minority like they discriminate against large people. The only reason people can't get away with being so openly racist is because people of ethnic minorities have worked for their right to be treated with respect. Bigots who want to discriminate will do it unless the victims of bigotry make it very uncomfortable for them to continue doing it. There actually is a movement for accepting people of all sizes, and treating everyone respectfully and equally, regardless of size. In some cities in the US, laws have been recently enacted forbidding discrimination on the basis of size, which means you can sue if you think you've been discriminiated against. (Note: if the job you applied for requires you to crawl into tiny spaces, and you didn't get the job because you're too fat to fit into the spaces, that is *not* legal discrimination. It's only discrimination if your characteristic doesn't affect your ability to perform the duties.) I'm proud to say that San Francisco has such a law - in fact, I helped it to pass. The state of Michigan also has an anti-size discrimination law. But it's true that in most places, people can openly deny you employment or housing, just because they don't like the way you look. Oh my, I just looked at the length of this post - this is one of my favorite rants, so I get carried away. But I do think this is a very serious issue. I agree that size discrimination and fat phobia is a serious issue. It is a life-and-death issue, too, not just because of people who starve themselves, but also because many doctors won't even treat you if you're fat, because they figure that whatever's wrong with you will go away if you lose weight. It's a real problem. Hmm... perhaps we need an ongoing thread called "Rant", for those of us who are inclined in that direction, to vent our various pet peeves. Joyce, member of the Rant Brigade |
#212
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Jeanette wrote:
I've only commented ONCE on the contents of someone else's trolley. It had nothing in it but a litter tray, two feeding dishes, a bag of litter, and a huge pack of kitten food. AWWW! I wouldn't be able to resist commenting on that, either. Joyce |
#213
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Jeanette wrote:
I've only commented ONCE on the contents of someone else's trolley. It had nothing in it but a litter tray, two feeding dishes, a bag of litter, and a huge pack of kitten food. AWWW! I wouldn't be able to resist commenting on that, either. Joyce |
#214
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"Kreisleriana" wrote in message
... On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 09:18:51 +1100, "Yowie" yodeled: If anyone has teenage kids who need to practice essay writing and debating skills, that peice of FUD (fear, uncertaintly and doubt) is a perfect peice to analyse. There are many fallacious arguments, such as arguing from authority, false analogy, gross overgeneralisation, as well as using emotive words and tones to gain sympathy (ie, agreemenet) from the reader. One could use http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/index.htm http://www.fallacyfiles.org/ http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ I wish this was more widely taught. People in the highest areas of public life regularly use absolutely ridiculous arguments all the time, and people just go "Yeah!" its much easier to spot a fallacious argument when one is in disagreement with the author. When one is in agreement, it is far harder to work out that they are not arguing fairly. And to give them their due, the person spouting the FUD may well not be aware of their poor analytical skills either, as they firmly believe that they are right, and that they are just using the facts. Even "facts" are debatable, of course, because anything us humans talk about has to be interpretted through a human brain first, with all its biases and preconceived notions. Yowie (getting deep now) |
#215
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"Kreisleriana" wrote in message
... On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 09:18:51 +1100, "Yowie" yodeled: If anyone has teenage kids who need to practice essay writing and debating skills, that peice of FUD (fear, uncertaintly and doubt) is a perfect peice to analyse. There are many fallacious arguments, such as arguing from authority, false analogy, gross overgeneralisation, as well as using emotive words and tones to gain sympathy (ie, agreemenet) from the reader. One could use http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/index.htm http://www.fallacyfiles.org/ http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ I wish this was more widely taught. People in the highest areas of public life regularly use absolutely ridiculous arguments all the time, and people just go "Yeah!" its much easier to spot a fallacious argument when one is in disagreement with the author. When one is in agreement, it is far harder to work out that they are not arguing fairly. And to give them their due, the person spouting the FUD may well not be aware of their poor analytical skills either, as they firmly believe that they are right, and that they are just using the facts. Even "facts" are debatable, of course, because anything us humans talk about has to be interpretted through a human brain first, with all its biases and preconceived notions. Yowie (getting deep now) |
#216
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"dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers" wrote in
message ... My pet peeve, though, are the people who, dripping with self-righteousness, have to comment on the shopping cart contents of anyone who's a little fatter than skeletal. "You don't really *need* that, do you dear?" they'll say, pointing to any high-calorie item. Seriously, there ARE people who are that rude! I am not slim. I am overweight. I am fat. The other week was the cycling club annual dinner & award ceremony, which I had to be at as I'm racing secretary and had organised the trophies, engravings, medals and the production of the programme for the event (my printer had been working overtime, as had I). Whilst at the dinner, in the middle of the main course, a person told me about how, if I wanted to stay slim & healthy like him, I should not eat a meal such as the one on the plate... the fact is, he had exactly the same on his plate as me, which he was eating... a couple of other people, during the evening, made comment about how if I want to be healthy, I should be eating A, not eating B, doing C, not doing D. Did I ask these people for their advice? No, they simply felt it was perfectly acceptable to tell me how so much better they are than me with the "If you want to be slim like me..." I resisted the retort of "There *is* one thing fatter than my arse in this room, and it's your mouth.", but god knows how. Is my eating anything eating causing them to get cancer due to "passive eating"??? No. I may not be slim, and I can cycle 100 miles on a bike, but hey, aren't we fat people supposed to be lazy, good-for-nothing couch potatoes who do nothing but lie on a sofa all day feeding our faces with chocolates as we have no sense of self-control or self-worth?? How dare we inflict ourselves on the outside world!! Now, the trick would be to load them up with lead so they weigh as much as you, and see if they can still do the physical excercise that you do. Betcha they couldn't. I can haul my 120kg frame down to the train station (about a mile away) in under 20 minutes and not be out of breath. Like to see a "slim" person do the same thing. Yowie |
#217
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"dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers" wrote in
message ... My pet peeve, though, are the people who, dripping with self-righteousness, have to comment on the shopping cart contents of anyone who's a little fatter than skeletal. "You don't really *need* that, do you dear?" they'll say, pointing to any high-calorie item. Seriously, there ARE people who are that rude! I am not slim. I am overweight. I am fat. The other week was the cycling club annual dinner & award ceremony, which I had to be at as I'm racing secretary and had organised the trophies, engravings, medals and the production of the programme for the event (my printer had been working overtime, as had I). Whilst at the dinner, in the middle of the main course, a person told me about how, if I wanted to stay slim & healthy like him, I should not eat a meal such as the one on the plate... the fact is, he had exactly the same on his plate as me, which he was eating... a couple of other people, during the evening, made comment about how if I want to be healthy, I should be eating A, not eating B, doing C, not doing D. Did I ask these people for their advice? No, they simply felt it was perfectly acceptable to tell me how so much better they are than me with the "If you want to be slim like me..." I resisted the retort of "There *is* one thing fatter than my arse in this room, and it's your mouth.", but god knows how. Is my eating anything eating causing them to get cancer due to "passive eating"??? No. I may not be slim, and I can cycle 100 miles on a bike, but hey, aren't we fat people supposed to be lazy, good-for-nothing couch potatoes who do nothing but lie on a sofa all day feeding our faces with chocolates as we have no sense of self-control or self-worth?? How dare we inflict ourselves on the outside world!! Now, the trick would be to load them up with lead so they weigh as much as you, and see if they can still do the physical excercise that you do. Betcha they couldn't. I can haul my 120kg frame down to the train station (about a mile away) in under 20 minutes and not be out of breath. Like to see a "slim" person do the same thing. Yowie |
#218
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"Jo Firey" wrote in message
... "dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers" wrote in message ... My pet peeve, though, are the people who, dripping with self-righteousness, have to comment on the shopping cart contents of anyone who's a little fatter than skeletal. "You don't really *need* that, do you dear?" they'll say, pointing to any high-calorie item. Seriously, there ARE people who are that rude! I am not slim. I am overweight. I am fat. The other week was the cycling club annual dinner & award ceremony, which I had to be at as I'm racing secretary and had organised the trophies, engravings, medals and the production of the programme for the event (my printer had been working overtime, as had I). Whilst at the dinner, in the middle of the main course, a person told me about how, if I wanted to stay slim & healthy like him, I should not eat a meal such as the one on the plate... Since this sounds like it is something that will happen again, you need to come up with a truly scathing but ladylike sounding comeback for such insufferable boors. My own mother wouldn't dare to criticize me for the food on my plate while I was eating and I suspect it would get ugly if a stranger tried it. My standard answer is "Yup, I'm fat, but I'd prefer to be fat than rude." Yowie |
#219
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"Jo Firey" wrote in message
... "dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers" wrote in message ... My pet peeve, though, are the people who, dripping with self-righteousness, have to comment on the shopping cart contents of anyone who's a little fatter than skeletal. "You don't really *need* that, do you dear?" they'll say, pointing to any high-calorie item. Seriously, there ARE people who are that rude! I am not slim. I am overweight. I am fat. The other week was the cycling club annual dinner & award ceremony, which I had to be at as I'm racing secretary and had organised the trophies, engravings, medals and the production of the programme for the event (my printer had been working overtime, as had I). Whilst at the dinner, in the middle of the main course, a person told me about how, if I wanted to stay slim & healthy like him, I should not eat a meal such as the one on the plate... Since this sounds like it is something that will happen again, you need to come up with a truly scathing but ladylike sounding comeback for such insufferable boors. My own mother wouldn't dare to criticize me for the food on my plate while I was eating and I suspect it would get ugly if a stranger tried it. My standard answer is "Yup, I'm fat, but I'd prefer to be fat than rude." Yowie |
#220
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"bonbon" wrote in message
... On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 20:23:40 GMT, (Ginger-lyn Summer) wrote: On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 19:36:55 GMT, "Jeanette" wrote: I've only commented ONCE on the contents of someone else's trolley. It had nothing in it but a litter tray, two feeding dishes, a bag of litter, and a huge pack of kitten food. I couldn't resist asking them if they'd adopted one kitten or two. Jeanette I swear sometimes I go to the grocery store only to shop for the cats. It's happened to me several times that, while looking at a cart full of cat litter and cat food, someone asks "I take it you have cats?" ;-) Always makes me laugh a little. Ginger-lyn When I go shopping for cat care supplies, I generally buy 75 to l00 lbs. of kitty litter, three bags inside the cart and one underneath. The rest of the cart gets filled up with cat food. By the time I get up to the checkout (huffing and puffing) nearly always, someone says to me: "Man! How many cats do you have?" and I reply with a wink: "All of them." I've seen people wandering around in the pet supplies area with a lost & overwhelmed look on their faces. I usually ask what sort they've just adopted, and then help them pick out a starter kit for either kitten or puppy. And if its a kitten, I always tell them about RPCA too. Yowie |
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