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  #211  
Old November 22nd 04, 03:10 AM
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CatNipped wrote:

How inexcusably rude! I've been saying this for years - there is one form
of prejudice, intolerance and discrimination that it's still perfectly OK
for people to display - prejudice against large people (I won't even say
overweight because if you're fit and healthy then what you weigh may be just
right for your body type and you're not overweight at all!).


I don't have any problem with the word "fat" myself. It's just an innocent
adjective, like "tall", "short", and "thin." There's no judgement implied,
unless the speaker adds a negative attitude to it.

I wouldn't use the word "fat" to describe a person I don't know well,
though, because so many people feel deeply insulted or humiliated by it.
So I use words like "big", "large", "heavy", or, perhaps "zaftig", a
Yiddish word for chubby or full-figured. (The word literally means
"juicy", which tells you something about that culture's attitudes about
body size! )

The word "overweight" really sets my teeth on edge, especially when
directed at me. It's *inherently* judgemental - the implication is that
you've gone *over* some norm. But as you said, if one is fit and healthy,
then what's the problem?

The irony of it is that many people consider the word "fat" to be rude,
and say "overweight" to be polite. My reactions to each word is quite
the opposite.

I lost 100 pounds and it did make all my medical problems go away (I
was not supposed to weigh what I weighed for my body type). However,
I had no idea how it would change how people treated me.


Isn't that amazing? And being treated differently, in both obvious and
subtle ways, day in and day out, is going to change your perception of
yourself and the world. It's going to change how you feel day in and day
out. Little things you'd never notice, like getting smiles from people
on the bus instead of unfriendly stares or glances. When you were bigger,
you might have just dismissed that sort of unfriendliness as people's
bad moods or general unhappiness with life. To suddenly start being
treated with more respect and warmth, in stores, on the street, etc, must
change a person's outlook and mood a great deal. Then they'll say, "Ever
since I lost weight, I've been so much happier!" They think it's the fat
that makes them unhappy, when in fact, it's the prejudice.

I take no credit in losing all that weight, my surgeon did all the work (I
do exercise a lot, but I always liked to exercise, I just couldn't at my
weight), but people keep congratulating me like I'd won the lottery. They
tell me how good I look


I know someone who has intractable seizure disorder, and several years
ago she had a severe episode of uncontrolled seizures, which resulted in
her being hospitalized for 3 weeks, part of the time in Intensive Care.
During that time, she lost about 30 pounds. By the time she was released,
she looked gaunt, frail and sickly (which she was - she could hardly walk
across the room on her own). But people saw her and told her how great
she looked after losing all that weight. OK, maybe part of that was just
their attempt to make her feel better about the fact that she really
looked TERRIBLE - at least they could focus on her weight loss. But she
was really annoyed at people's harping on her weight, as though something
wonderful had occurred. We used to make jokes about the All! New! Really
Effective! SEIZURE DIET!! Lose 30 pounds in 3 weeks - wheeee!

I'd like to see what would happen if a television show made fun
of a member of an ethnic minority like they make fun of large people.
I'd like to see what would happen if employers discriminated against
a member of an ethnic minority like they discriminate against large
people.


The only reason people can't get away with being so openly racist is
because people of ethnic minorities have worked for their right to be
treated with respect. Bigots who want to discriminate will do it unless
the victims of bigotry make it very uncomfortable for them to continue
doing it.

There actually is a movement for accepting people of all sizes, and
treating everyone respectfully and equally, regardless of size. In
some cities in the US, laws have been recently enacted forbidding
discrimination on the basis of size, which means you can sue if you think
you've been discriminiated against. (Note: if the job you applied for
requires you to crawl into tiny spaces, and you didn't get the job because
you're too fat to fit into the spaces, that is *not* legal discrimination.
It's only discrimination if your characteristic doesn't affect your
ability to perform the duties.) I'm proud to say that San Francisco has
such a law - in fact, I helped it to pass. The state of Michigan also
has an anti-size discrimination law. But it's true that in most places,
people can openly deny you employment or housing, just because they don't
like the way you look.

Oh my, I just looked at the length of this post - this is one of my
favorite rants, so I get carried away. But I do think this is a very
serious issue.


I agree that size discrimination and fat phobia is a serious issue. It
is a life-and-death issue, too, not just because of people who starve
themselves, but also because many doctors won't even treat you if you're
fat, because they figure that whatever's wrong with you will go away if
you lose weight. It's a real problem.

Hmm... perhaps we need an ongoing thread called "Rant", for those of us
who are inclined in that direction, to vent our various pet peeves.

Joyce, member of the Rant Brigade
  #212  
Old November 22nd 04, 03:12 AM
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Jeanette wrote:

I've only commented ONCE on the contents of someone else's trolley.
It had nothing in it but a litter tray, two feeding dishes, a bag of
litter, and a huge pack of kitten food.


AWWW! I wouldn't be able to resist commenting on that, either.

Joyce
  #213  
Old November 22nd 04, 03:12 AM
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Jeanette wrote:

I've only commented ONCE on the contents of someone else's trolley.
It had nothing in it but a litter tray, two feeding dishes, a bag of
litter, and a huge pack of kitten food.


AWWW! I wouldn't be able to resist commenting on that, either.

Joyce
  #214  
Old November 22nd 04, 03:59 AM
Yowie
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"Kreisleriana" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 09:18:51 +1100, "Yowie"
yodeled:

If anyone has teenage kids who need to practice essay writing and

debating
skills, that peice of FUD (fear, uncertaintly and doubt) is a perfect

peice
to analyse.

There are many fallacious arguments, such as arguing from authority,

false
analogy, gross overgeneralisation, as well as using emotive words and

tones
to gain sympathy (ie, agreemenet) from the reader.

One could use
http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/index.htm
http://www.fallacyfiles.org/
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/



I wish this was more widely taught. People in the highest areas of
public life regularly use absolutely ridiculous arguments all the
time, and people just go "Yeah!"


its much easier to spot a fallacious argument when one is in disagreement
with the author. When one is in agreement, it is far harder to work out that
they are not arguing fairly. And to give them their due, the person spouting
the FUD may well not be aware of their poor analytical skills either, as
they firmly believe that they are right, and that they are just using the
facts. Even "facts" are debatable, of course, because anything us humans
talk about has to be interpretted through a human brain first, with all its
biases and preconceived notions.

Yowie (getting deep now)

  #215  
Old November 22nd 04, 03:59 AM
Yowie
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"Kreisleriana" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 09:18:51 +1100, "Yowie"
yodeled:

If anyone has teenage kids who need to practice essay writing and

debating
skills, that peice of FUD (fear, uncertaintly and doubt) is a perfect

peice
to analyse.

There are many fallacious arguments, such as arguing from authority,

false
analogy, gross overgeneralisation, as well as using emotive words and

tones
to gain sympathy (ie, agreemenet) from the reader.

One could use
http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/index.htm
http://www.fallacyfiles.org/
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/



I wish this was more widely taught. People in the highest areas of
public life regularly use absolutely ridiculous arguments all the
time, and people just go "Yeah!"


its much easier to spot a fallacious argument when one is in disagreement
with the author. When one is in agreement, it is far harder to work out that
they are not arguing fairly. And to give them their due, the person spouting
the FUD may well not be aware of their poor analytical skills either, as
they firmly believe that they are right, and that they are just using the
facts. Even "facts" are debatable, of course, because anything us humans
talk about has to be interpretted through a human brain first, with all its
biases and preconceived notions.

Yowie (getting deep now)

  #216  
Old November 22nd 04, 04:03 AM
Yowie
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"dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers" wrote in
message ...

My pet peeve, though, are the people who, dripping with

self-righteousness,
have to comment on the shopping cart contents of anyone who's a little
fatter than skeletal. "You don't really *need* that, do you dear?"

they'll
say, pointing to any high-calorie item. Seriously, there ARE people who
are that rude!


I am not slim. I am overweight. I am fat. The other week was the cycling

club
annual dinner & award ceremony, which I had to be at as I'm racing

secretary
and had organised the trophies, engravings, medals and the production of

the
programme for the event (my printer had been working overtime, as had I).

Whilst at the dinner, in the middle of the main course, a person told me

about
how, if I wanted to stay slim & healthy like him, I should not eat a meal

such
as the one on the plate... the fact is, he had exactly the same on his

plate as
me, which he was eating... a couple of other people, during the evening,

made
comment about how if I want to be healthy, I should be eating A, not

eating B,
doing C, not doing D. Did I ask these people for their advice? No, they

simply
felt it was perfectly acceptable to tell me how so much better they are

than me
with the "If you want to be slim like me..." I resisted the retort of

"There
*is* one thing fatter than my arse in this room, and it's your mouth.",

but god
knows how. Is my eating anything eating causing them to get cancer due to
"passive eating"??? No. I may not be slim, and I can cycle 100 miles on a

bike,
but hey, aren't we fat people supposed to be lazy, good-for-nothing couch
potatoes who do nothing but lie on a sofa all day feeding our faces with
chocolates as we have no sense of self-control or self-worth?? How dare we
inflict ourselves on the outside world!!


Now, the trick would be to load them up with lead so they weigh as much as
you, and see if they can still do the physical excercise that you do. Betcha
they couldn't.

I can haul my 120kg frame down to the train station (about a mile away) in
under 20 minutes and not be out of breath. Like to see a "slim" person do
the same thing.

Yowie

  #217  
Old November 22nd 04, 04:03 AM
Yowie
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Posts: n/a
Default

"dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers" wrote in
message ...

My pet peeve, though, are the people who, dripping with

self-righteousness,
have to comment on the shopping cart contents of anyone who's a little
fatter than skeletal. "You don't really *need* that, do you dear?"

they'll
say, pointing to any high-calorie item. Seriously, there ARE people who
are that rude!


I am not slim. I am overweight. I am fat. The other week was the cycling

club
annual dinner & award ceremony, which I had to be at as I'm racing

secretary
and had organised the trophies, engravings, medals and the production of

the
programme for the event (my printer had been working overtime, as had I).

Whilst at the dinner, in the middle of the main course, a person told me

about
how, if I wanted to stay slim & healthy like him, I should not eat a meal

such
as the one on the plate... the fact is, he had exactly the same on his

plate as
me, which he was eating... a couple of other people, during the evening,

made
comment about how if I want to be healthy, I should be eating A, not

eating B,
doing C, not doing D. Did I ask these people for their advice? No, they

simply
felt it was perfectly acceptable to tell me how so much better they are

than me
with the "If you want to be slim like me..." I resisted the retort of

"There
*is* one thing fatter than my arse in this room, and it's your mouth.",

but god
knows how. Is my eating anything eating causing them to get cancer due to
"passive eating"??? No. I may not be slim, and I can cycle 100 miles on a

bike,
but hey, aren't we fat people supposed to be lazy, good-for-nothing couch
potatoes who do nothing but lie on a sofa all day feeding our faces with
chocolates as we have no sense of self-control or self-worth?? How dare we
inflict ourselves on the outside world!!


Now, the trick would be to load them up with lead so they weigh as much as
you, and see if they can still do the physical excercise that you do. Betcha
they couldn't.

I can haul my 120kg frame down to the train station (about a mile away) in
under 20 minutes and not be out of breath. Like to see a "slim" person do
the same thing.

Yowie

  #218  
Old November 22nd 04, 04:10 AM
Yowie
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Posts: n/a
Default

"Jo Firey" wrote in message
...

"dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers" wrote in
message ...

My pet peeve, though, are the people who, dripping with
self-righteousness,
have to comment on the shopping cart contents of anyone who's a little
fatter than skeletal. "You don't really *need* that, do you dear?"

they'll
say, pointing to any high-calorie item. Seriously, there ARE people who
are that rude!


I am not slim. I am overweight. I am fat. The other week was the cycling
club
annual dinner & award ceremony, which I had to be at as I'm racing
secretary
and had organised the trophies, engravings, medals and the production of
the
programme for the event (my printer had been working overtime, as had

I).

Whilst at the dinner, in the middle of the main course, a person told me
about
how, if I wanted to stay slim & healthy like him, I should not eat a

meal
such
as the one on the plate...


Since this sounds like it is something that will happen again, you need to
come up with a truly scathing but ladylike sounding comeback for such
insufferable boors.

My own mother wouldn't dare to criticize me for the food on my plate while

I
was eating and I suspect it would get ugly if a stranger tried it.


My standard answer is "Yup, I'm fat, but I'd prefer to be fat than rude."

Yowie

  #219  
Old November 22nd 04, 04:10 AM
Yowie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Jo Firey" wrote in message
...

"dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers" wrote in
message ...

My pet peeve, though, are the people who, dripping with
self-righteousness,
have to comment on the shopping cart contents of anyone who's a little
fatter than skeletal. "You don't really *need* that, do you dear?"

they'll
say, pointing to any high-calorie item. Seriously, there ARE people who
are that rude!


I am not slim. I am overweight. I am fat. The other week was the cycling
club
annual dinner & award ceremony, which I had to be at as I'm racing
secretary
and had organised the trophies, engravings, medals and the production of
the
programme for the event (my printer had been working overtime, as had

I).

Whilst at the dinner, in the middle of the main course, a person told me
about
how, if I wanted to stay slim & healthy like him, I should not eat a

meal
such
as the one on the plate...


Since this sounds like it is something that will happen again, you need to
come up with a truly scathing but ladylike sounding comeback for such
insufferable boors.

My own mother wouldn't dare to criticize me for the food on my plate while

I
was eating and I suspect it would get ugly if a stranger tried it.


My standard answer is "Yup, I'm fat, but I'd prefer to be fat than rude."

Yowie

 




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