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another question-this time about getting a dog



 
 
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  #22  
Old July 24th 03, 12:43 AM
Karen Chuplis
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in article , kate at
wrote on 7/23/03 5:46 PM:

I really appreciate the replies! We actually do check petfinder quite
often, and are interested in getting a mixed breed, but I just
wondered if there is any breed I should search for as part of the mix.
I also check the shelters and petfinder quite often for cats. I have
tried to adopt one from a shelter but the woman told me that she
wasnted to put the cat in a household with another cat. I thought this
was stupid since she had already adopted its siblings out and she said
that the cat missed its siblings-duh. I also work at home all day so
my cats dont ever get lonely. Both of my previous cats (one from a
shelter , the other a siamese) died last year at age 13 and 14. They
never got along. The shelter kitty picked on the Siamese his whole
life although she was super sweet to us humans (I dont think this has
anything to do with breeds, just the way things came to be). When she
died of heart problems my Siamese was so much more relaxed and happy.
Unfortunately later we found out that he also had heart disease and he
died 9 months later.
I must actually disagree respectfully with a couple of statements
from all of the replies, though.
First, I think breed does matter. I grew up with siamese and mut
cats, and I have always found that siamese had very distinct
personality traits that I liked. I always found them to be very deep
and intelligent. All of my american short hairs were smart, too, but
there was just a difference I cant explain. I have been looking for
cats at the shelters and havent found one I quite connect with.
I do think dogs retain their breed characteristics for the most part
as well. I think a herding dog will always be restless if not given
tasks and a lot of excercise. Its in their blood. I am not at all
interested in appearance, I am looking for personality and that's it.
I also find that sometimes kittens do not socialize well with their
owners of another kitten is adopted with it. When I was growing up, my
family adopted two brothers. They only played among themselves and
didnt have much interest in bonding with humans. When one of the
brothers was killed by a neighbors dog, the remaining brother became
completely wild. He hunted for all of his food, never wanted to come
inside, and never socialized with humans until he was much older (he
then became a lap cat).
These are just my experiences, but I am still really interested in
hearing all of your opinions, so this is by no means intended to be
antagonistic, just my 2 cents...


Well, I have a black cat my brother found as a stray at around 6 months. He
had to move so I took her in. Completely Siamese in behaviour. She has the
elegant ears and face and certainly the voice of a Siamese. She snorts
through her nose in disgust if I chatise her. If she were colored correctly,
you'd think she was a purebred. She's just a moggie with Siamese in her
blood and one like her can be found at a shelter. Or there are also Siamese
rescues. I guess there wouldn't be purebred rescues if people really got
what they thought they were getting. One other point, I can guarantee that
whatever cat you get will not match the cat you remember. They all have too
distinct a personality for that and wanting too much of a duplicate can be
very disappointing. That's just a caution, not to say that is what you are
after but sometimes we do that in our hearts. As for your two brothers, I
can guarantee too, that that is pretty unusual behaviour. You've only to
read all the anecdotes over the newsgroups to see that. Check out the 3 year
update posted the other day. Or look at MaryL's Holly and Duffy. Or my Sugar
and Grant that I got off a farm that are siblings. They are fantastic cats
and complete love bugs dependent on me for loving. They are all different.

karen

  #23  
Old July 24th 03, 12:43 AM
Karen Chuplis
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

in article , kate at
wrote on 7/23/03 5:46 PM:

I really appreciate the replies! We actually do check petfinder quite
often, and are interested in getting a mixed breed, but I just
wondered if there is any breed I should search for as part of the mix.
I also check the shelters and petfinder quite often for cats. I have
tried to adopt one from a shelter but the woman told me that she
wasnted to put the cat in a household with another cat. I thought this
was stupid since she had already adopted its siblings out and she said
that the cat missed its siblings-duh. I also work at home all day so
my cats dont ever get lonely. Both of my previous cats (one from a
shelter , the other a siamese) died last year at age 13 and 14. They
never got along. The shelter kitty picked on the Siamese his whole
life although she was super sweet to us humans (I dont think this has
anything to do with breeds, just the way things came to be). When she
died of heart problems my Siamese was so much more relaxed and happy.
Unfortunately later we found out that he also had heart disease and he
died 9 months later.
I must actually disagree respectfully with a couple of statements
from all of the replies, though.
First, I think breed does matter. I grew up with siamese and mut
cats, and I have always found that siamese had very distinct
personality traits that I liked. I always found them to be very deep
and intelligent. All of my american short hairs were smart, too, but
there was just a difference I cant explain. I have been looking for
cats at the shelters and havent found one I quite connect with.
I do think dogs retain their breed characteristics for the most part
as well. I think a herding dog will always be restless if not given
tasks and a lot of excercise. Its in their blood. I am not at all
interested in appearance, I am looking for personality and that's it.
I also find that sometimes kittens do not socialize well with their
owners of another kitten is adopted with it. When I was growing up, my
family adopted two brothers. They only played among themselves and
didnt have much interest in bonding with humans. When one of the
brothers was killed by a neighbors dog, the remaining brother became
completely wild. He hunted for all of his food, never wanted to come
inside, and never socialized with humans until he was much older (he
then became a lap cat).
These are just my experiences, but I am still really interested in
hearing all of your opinions, so this is by no means intended to be
antagonistic, just my 2 cents...


Well, I have a black cat my brother found as a stray at around 6 months. He
had to move so I took her in. Completely Siamese in behaviour. She has the
elegant ears and face and certainly the voice of a Siamese. She snorts
through her nose in disgust if I chatise her. If she were colored correctly,
you'd think she was a purebred. She's just a moggie with Siamese in her
blood and one like her can be found at a shelter. Or there are also Siamese
rescues. I guess there wouldn't be purebred rescues if people really got
what they thought they were getting. One other point, I can guarantee that
whatever cat you get will not match the cat you remember. They all have too
distinct a personality for that and wanting too much of a duplicate can be
very disappointing. That's just a caution, not to say that is what you are
after but sometimes we do that in our hearts. As for your two brothers, I
can guarantee too, that that is pretty unusual behaviour. You've only to
read all the anecdotes over the newsgroups to see that. Check out the 3 year
update posted the other day. Or look at MaryL's Holly and Duffy. Or my Sugar
and Grant that I got off a farm that are siblings. They are fantastic cats
and complete love bugs dependent on me for loving. They are all different.

karen

  #24  
Old July 24th 03, 01:12 AM
Cheryl
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Karen Chuplis" wrote in message
...

You've only to
read all the anecdotes over the newsgroups to see that. Check out

the 3 year
update posted the other day. Or look at MaryL's Holly and Duffy. Or

my Sugar
and Grant that I got off a farm that are siblings. They are

fantastic cats
and complete love bugs dependent on me for loving. They are all

different.

And Bonnie the feral lil won who only 2 months ago hated my guts and
went ballistic if you touch her or even tried to touch her to now
where she lets me pet her and only paws my hand as if trying to be
threatening but doesn't have the heart for it anymore.


  #25  
Old July 24th 03, 01:12 AM
Cheryl
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Karen Chuplis" wrote in message
...

You've only to
read all the anecdotes over the newsgroups to see that. Check out

the 3 year
update posted the other day. Or look at MaryL's Holly and Duffy. Or

my Sugar
and Grant that I got off a farm that are siblings. They are

fantastic cats
and complete love bugs dependent on me for loving. They are all

different.

And Bonnie the feral lil won who only 2 months ago hated my guts and
went ballistic if you touch her or even tried to touch her to now
where she lets me pet her and only paws my hand as if trying to be
threatening but doesn't have the heart for it anymore.


  #26  
Old July 24th 03, 01:29 AM
-L.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

(kate) wrote in message . com...
I really appreciate the replies! We actually do check petfinder quite
often, and are interested in getting a mixed breed, but I just
wondered if there is any breed I should search for as part of the mix.


I used to think that breed wasn't important (for mixed breeds) - that
mixed breeds were just that - and their parentage had little to do
with their behavior. Then I rescued a Border Collie mix, and adopted
a Basenji mix (hunting dog). All I can say is that you can take the
dog out of the hunt (or herd) but never can you take the hunt (or
herd) out of the dog.

That being said, the best dogs IMO, are mixes, and if the mix is truly
mixed up (unidentifiable), all the better, IMO. Also, what is labeled
as a certain mix often times isn't. I have seen numerous "Pit Bull
mixes" who were actually boxer (or dane) mixes when they grew up, and
my own Basenji mix was labeled as a Boxer mix, although she is now 27
lbs and clearly a Basenji mix. You just can't rely on the labels -
unless the rescue group knows for sure that the parent was a
registered purebred.

The one lesson I have learned in my Dog Mommy-hood is if you get two
dogs, do not get two bitches unless you are prepared to deal with a
lot of strong pack behavior. I will never make that mistake again.
Could be my dogs, but the counselor at the HS warned me of this, and I
didn't heed the warning. I just was too blinded by the Basenji
wrinkly head, huge ears and tail going 1000 mph:

http://groups.msn.com/idontmindsComp...hoto&PhotoID=7

Who says pound dogs aren't cute?


I also check the shelters and petfinder quite often for cats. I have
tried to adopt one from a shelter but the woman told me that she
wasnted to put the cat in a household with another cat. I thought this
was stupid since she had already adopted its siblings out and she said
that the cat missed its siblings-duh. I also work at home all day so
my cats dont ever get lonely. Both of my previous cats (one from a
shelter , the other a siamese) died last year at age 13 and 14. They
never got along.


snipola

General rule of thumb is two cats are better than one, and three
better than two, but sometimes the two just never get along. I have a
male and female adopted 7 months apart (female first) and they
tolerate each other, at best. OTOH, my Mom always had oodles of cats,
which all got along. Go figure.

My general experience is that two males get along better if adopted as
kittens - not necessarily at the same time. The majority of the mixes
I have seen that didn't work out were male/female pairs.

Best of luck,

-L.
  #27  
Old July 24th 03, 01:29 AM
-L.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

(kate) wrote in message . com...
I really appreciate the replies! We actually do check petfinder quite
often, and are interested in getting a mixed breed, but I just
wondered if there is any breed I should search for as part of the mix.


I used to think that breed wasn't important (for mixed breeds) - that
mixed breeds were just that - and their parentage had little to do
with their behavior. Then I rescued a Border Collie mix, and adopted
a Basenji mix (hunting dog). All I can say is that you can take the
dog out of the hunt (or herd) but never can you take the hunt (or
herd) out of the dog.

That being said, the best dogs IMO, are mixes, and if the mix is truly
mixed up (unidentifiable), all the better, IMO. Also, what is labeled
as a certain mix often times isn't. I have seen numerous "Pit Bull
mixes" who were actually boxer (or dane) mixes when they grew up, and
my own Basenji mix was labeled as a Boxer mix, although she is now 27
lbs and clearly a Basenji mix. You just can't rely on the labels -
unless the rescue group knows for sure that the parent was a
registered purebred.

The one lesson I have learned in my Dog Mommy-hood is if you get two
dogs, do not get two bitches unless you are prepared to deal with a
lot of strong pack behavior. I will never make that mistake again.
Could be my dogs, but the counselor at the HS warned me of this, and I
didn't heed the warning. I just was too blinded by the Basenji
wrinkly head, huge ears and tail going 1000 mph:

http://groups.msn.com/idontmindsComp...hoto&PhotoID=7

Who says pound dogs aren't cute?


I also check the shelters and petfinder quite often for cats. I have
tried to adopt one from a shelter but the woman told me that she
wasnted to put the cat in a household with another cat. I thought this
was stupid since she had already adopted its siblings out and she said
that the cat missed its siblings-duh. I also work at home all day so
my cats dont ever get lonely. Both of my previous cats (one from a
shelter , the other a siamese) died last year at age 13 and 14. They
never got along.


snipola

General rule of thumb is two cats are better than one, and three
better than two, but sometimes the two just never get along. I have a
male and female adopted 7 months apart (female first) and they
tolerate each other, at best. OTOH, my Mom always had oodles of cats,
which all got along. Go figure.

My general experience is that two males get along better if adopted as
kittens - not necessarily at the same time. The majority of the mixes
I have seen that didn't work out were male/female pairs.

Best of luck,

-L.
  #28  
Old July 24th 03, 02:34 AM
Sherry
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Posts: n/a
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Gotta throw this in because it cracks me up about him. I don't leave
dry food out at night anymore because of Shadow's problems and trying
to convert them to all canned food. Shamrock now wakes me up in the
morning -hungry- by plopping down on my face. How he does this is to
stand on my pillow and just.. well, plop.. HARD on my face with his
side and the look at me as if he's saying, "oh, you're awake? Well
since you are, can you FEED ME now?" LOL

LOL! Frankie is a little more subtle. He gets his nose about 2 inches from my
face. Then.. tap, tap taps his paw on my nose. If I don't respond, it's tap,
tap with the claws out. If I still don't, he tries to stick his nose up my
nostril. That usually gets me.

Sherry
  #29  
Old July 24th 03, 02:34 AM
Sherry
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Gotta throw this in because it cracks me up about him. I don't leave
dry food out at night anymore because of Shadow's problems and trying
to convert them to all canned food. Shamrock now wakes me up in the
morning -hungry- by plopping down on my face. How he does this is to
stand on my pillow and just.. well, plop.. HARD on my face with his
side and the look at me as if he's saying, "oh, you're awake? Well
since you are, can you FEED ME now?" LOL

LOL! Frankie is a little more subtle. He gets his nose about 2 inches from my
face. Then.. tap, tap taps his paw on my nose. If I don't respond, it's tap,
tap with the claws out. If I still don't, he tries to stick his nose up my
nostril. That usually gets me.

Sherry
  #30  
Old July 24th 03, 08:16 PM
Orchid
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Default

On 23 Jul 2003 22:06:54 GMT, (Sherry ) wrote:

*grin* Hi Sherry! I see that we are, once again, staring at
each other from either sides of the purebred cat issue. It would seem
to be our destiny to meet this way -- me defending purebred kitties
and you reveiling them.
BTW -- Temujin and Kefka just recently got their first
Championship! We're going for Double next. How's your grandcat
doing in his show career?

Even worse are people who buy the
"trend cats" -- thanks to the movies, persians and siamese, or spynx,
especially. Honestly, Megan's post, or Deb's, is not condemning. We just

don't
get it. Why, or how, anyone could actually pay money, even get on a waiting
list, when so many, many healthy kittens die every day at shelters.


How about "Well, I want a healthy, well-adjusted, properly
socialised kitten that has been allowed to stay with its mom and
littermates for the full 12-16 weeks they should." How about "I'd
like to know the temperament of the father (whom temperament is
inherited from)."


How about, "There are in excess of one million cats that will die, this year,
simply because no one wants them. Healthy cats. There are also specific breed
rescues full of cats relinquished by people who *thought* they wanted them .
Waiting for homes. Just like the shelter cats.


Cite please for the 1 million number, and the date of the
study. Also, I'd like to see the breakdown of healthy, socialised,
human-friendly cats vs. ferals vs. sick or injured, please. In my
experience with the huge euthanisation numbers they tend to lump all
cats into one, regardless of adopability.
As for breed rescue, one needs to look at whether the rescue
takes in mixes as well (as Siamese Rescue does) or if it truly it a
breed-specific rescue. Breed Rescue is a wonderful thing. (I
volunteer with the largest, best organised Lab Rescue in the nation
and also with Bengal Rescue) However, true breed-specific rescues do
not always have cats available or suitable. I looked into rescuing
when I got my Bengal boys, and we had a total of 13 cats in rescue
across the the US and Canada. Of those 13, 8 could not be shipped.
Of the five left, 3 were females (I vastly prefer boys), and neither
of the two available males could go into a multicat home (I very much
wanted two cats). So that put the kibosh on rescue for my cats.
Approximately 3.6% of the entire cat population is purebred
(
http://www.fanciers.com/npa/sdanalysis.html). Purebred cats are much
more likely to be indoor-only cats, and less likely to be randomly
bred. Roaming, free breeding cats, on the other hand, make up well
over a third of the known cat population. It is clear where the
problem lies. Cities are not being overrun by herds of wandering
Himalayan and Devon Rex cats.

Rescue cats aren't right for everyone. Some people want predictable
temperaments, activity levels, grooming requirements, etc. For those
who want specific things out of their cats, purebred is the way to go.


Purebred cats don't come with a guarantee--in fact, I'd be surprised if
behavioral problems aren't more prevalent in purebreds than moggies, and
congenital health problems too. There are no guarantees with *any* pet.


Well, that depends on the guarantee. For example, any cat
that comes from a responsible breeder (like mine), not only comes with
a congenital health guarantee (generally five years or so on paper),
but it also comes with the guarantee that should you have to give up
your cat for *any reason* it MUST go back to the breeder and not into
a shelter. Responsible breeders take care of the animals they have
brought into the world.
As for behavioural problems, I am going to have to
respectfully disagree with you. Of the cats I have known, owned, and
fostered, the moggies have had much more extreme emotional and
behavioural problems.

People who enjoy the challenge and surprise of discovering what a cat
is going to be should absolutely rescue.


I love my cats, but more importantlly, I love cats as a species. I could never,
ever, with a good conscience, buy a cat from a breeder when I know how many
cats die in this country alone. Maybe others can. But I couldn't.


I also love my cats and cats as a species. I have fostered
for rescue groups before, and pouring love, attention, training, and
time into cats who most certainly did *not* love me back took its toll
on me. I still volunteer with rescues and the local Humane Society,
but when I come home I have my lovely, happy, purring lovekitties to
heal my soul.

And that's what it's all about.



Orchid

Orchid's Kitties: http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage
Orchid's Guide: http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid
 




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