Animal emotions - I

Leif Erikson wrote:


What do you think they're doing Leif,

Dropping the mouse.

Yes, but why? If they hunted for food, why not eat
the mouse where they killed it? If for sport, why
bring it back after it was dead? If to eat later, why
drop it where another potential dominant predator
(i.e., the human) could take it away, instead of
hiding it?

Karen Winter wrote:

Leif Erikson wrote:


What do you think they're doing Leif,


Dropping the mouse.


Yes, but why? If they hunted for food, why not eat
the mouse where they killed it? If for sport, why
bring it back after it was dead? If to eat later, why
drop it where another potential dominant predator
(i.e., the human) could take it away, instead of
hiding it?

It isn't as a gift; cats don't have a concept of
gift-giving.

Eden wrote:

Leif Erikson wrote:

What do you think they're doing Leif,

Dropping the mouse.

Yes, but why? If they hunted for food, why not eat
the mouse where they killed it? If for sport, why
bring it back after it was dead? If to eat later, why
drop it where another potential dominant predator
(i.e., the human) could take it away, instead of
hiding it?

It isn't as a gift; cats don't have a concept of gift-giving.

No, I don't think it is as a gift, but why *do* you think they
do it?

Glorfindel wrote:

Eden wrote:

Leif Erikson wrote:


What do you think they're doing Leif,


Dropping the mouse.


Yes, but why? If they hunted for food, why not eat
the mouse where they killed it? If for sport, why
bring it back after it was dead? If to eat later, why
drop it where another potential dominant predator
(i.e., the human) could take it away, instead of
hiding it?


It isn't as a gift; cats don't have a concept of gift-giving.


No, I don't think it is as a gift, but why *do* you think they
do it?

It isn't important what I think it *is*. In the
context of this newsgroup, what is important is what I
am saying it is *not*: the presenting of a gift.
People who would ascribe all kinds of ridiculous
attributes to animals want to say the cat is making a
"present" of the dead animal to its owner, and that's
preposterous.

Eden wrote:

....
It isn't important what I think it *is*.

....
Well, yes it is. It's an indication of how you believe a cat's
mind works. Obviously, it isn't a purely instinctive act,
since there's no instinct to feed humans in the repertoire of
wild cats. Obviously, it requires some sort of...anticipation,
shall we say?...for the cat to carry the mouse back to a house
rather than eat it or drop it right on the spot. It's an
artificial interaction which has no exact parallel in nature.
So why does the cat do it? What does the cat get out of the
effort of carrying the mouse back to the house, and picking a
particular spot to drop it? There has to be something.

If you haven't a clue, that's a reasonable answer too.

Karen Winter blabbered:
Eden wrote:

...
It isn't important what I think it *is*.

...
Well, yes it is.

No, it isn't.


It's an indication of how you believe a cat's
mind works.

All that's relevant in the discussion is how I think it *doesn't* work.
It doesn't include the ability to conceive of gi

Obviously, it isn't a purely instinctive act,
since there's no instinct to feed humans in the repertoire of
wild cats.

Who says it has anything to do with feeding them?


Obviously, it requires some sort of...anticipation,
shall we say?

No. It doesn't anticipate any particular reaction from the humans.


...for the cat to carry the mouse back to a house
rather than eat it or drop it right on the spot. It's an
artificial interaction which has no exact parallel in nature.

Cats have been domesticated a long time, so this *is* their "nature".


So why does the cat do it? What does the cat get out of the
effort of carrying the mouse back to the house, and picking a
particular spot to drop it? There has to be something.

Why don't you ask a few of them? It would be a perfect question to pop
to a couple of 'em in the middle of a shampoo and nail trim.

Leif Erikson wrote:

Glorfindel wrote:

....
So why does the cat do it? What does the cat get out of the
effort of carrying the mouse back to the house, and picking a
particular spot to drop it? There has to be something.

Why don't you ask a few of them?

As I thought, your answer is, "I haven't a clue."

....

Karen Winter wrote:
Leif Erikson wrote:

Karen Winter wrote:

...
So why does the cat do it? What does the cat get out of the
effort of carrying the mouse back to the house, and picking a
particular spot to drop it? There has to be something.

Why don't you ask a few of them? It would be a perfect question to pop
to a couple of 'em in the middle of a shampoo and nail trim.

As I thought,

You don't think, Karen - you emote.

As I told you, Karen, it doesn't matter what I think it *is*. In the
context of this discussion, it only matters what I say it is not. It
isn't gift-giving.

On Wed, 24 May 2006 19:48:14 -0600, Glorfindel wrote:

Goo wrote:

...
It isn't important what I think it *is*.

...
Well, yes it is. It's an indication of how you believe a cat's
mind works.

Goo amusingly doesn't know what he thinks...though sometimes
he does insist that he disagrees with himself...

Obviously, it isn't a purely instinctive act,
since there's no instinct to feed humans in the repertoire of
wild cats. Obviously, it requires some sort of...anticipation,
shall we say?...for the cat to carry the mouse back to a house
rather than eat it or drop it right on the spot.

You've gotten way over the Goober's head now. You probably
even made him cry.

It's an
artificial interaction which has no exact parallel in nature.

How could you know that?

So why does the cat do it? What does the cat get out of the
effort of carrying the mouse back to the house, and picking a
particular spot to drop it? There has to be something.

If you haven't a clue, that's a reasonable answer too.

Clueless Goo has no clue, and Goo is unaware of that too.

dh@. wrote:
On Wed, 24 May 2006 19:48:14 -0600, Glorfindel wrote:

....


It's an
artificial interaction which has no exact parallel in nature.

How could you know that?

Because adult wild or feral cats are not fed by others, and
do not feed other adult animals. They do not live in other animals'
dens. Cats bring home dead or crippled prey to their kittens
to feed them or teach them to hunt. So, perhaps they see their
human(s) in that relationship to them in some way, but exactly how
seems obscure.

....