[OT] Just needed to vent

snip
I know there is nothing you folks can do but purr for us. But I had to
vent.
The mental health system here is ridiculously underfunded and fully relies
on other people being willing to put up with this sh*t for the rest of
their
lives simply because they happen to share some DNA with the person in
question. There is no help, no respite, no system in place that gets us
out
of the bind. We either sacrifice our own lifestyles and live our lives as
dictated by Daniel's bizarre behaviour (and it wouldn't surprise me if he
starts stealing stuff from us soon), or we choose to sacrifice him
instead.
Even the local mental health team recognise its a ridiculous situation but
can't help on a practical level. And Joel has to decide between his
brother
and his wife & child. Utterly utterly mad.


Hi Yowie,

There is an association based in Sydney called Arafmi (association for
relatives and friends of the mentally ill). Their toll free number is 1800
655 178 and their webpage is http://users.webtime.com.au/arafmi/

I'm sorry I can't provide any advice but I send prayers and soothing purrs
and perhaps someone at this association might be able to provide you with
some advice or experience.

Kathryn

Purrs aplenty to you and yours, Yowie. You're very kind and understand to have
tried to help him much as you have already.

Sherry

"Yowie" wrote in message ...

He reovered, and we figured that it was indeed due to the alteration of his
brain chemistry due to the spiked drink. However, there was always a
possibility that the drug wasn't the *cause*, but the *trigger* and that he
did indeed have schizophrenia proper.

Schizophrenia is usually a garbage term used for legal purposes.
Most "schizophrenics" are not violent. Quite the contrary.
He just sounds selfish, very selfish and unpleasant, which drugs
and/or alcohol can really bring out beyond a point of no return
sometimes, for a long time.

This fellow gives "mental illness" and drug taking a very bad name.
I have known druggies who were "crazy" and actually quite pleasant
and amusing.

I thought you posted that Joel's duty as the house-husband was to
protect you? He has to get his brother off drugs or it's like
having a violent alcoholic around, regardless if he is "mentally
ill" or not. The alcohol or drugs makes a bad situation worse.
Whether alcohol or drugs, the odds go up in regards to violence.
If he won't come clean and do yoga, at the very least, well ...

Alcohol or drugs can ruin the receptors in the brain which leads
to irritation and profound disturbances. It's a vicious cycle
since the false triggers mimic the real thing but don't provide
the real sense of comfort, like the endorphins, for example.

If you can't get the brother off the drugs, heck, you don't
even know what drugs he is taking, do you? I would guess
downers, barbituates possibly, for they do nasty things to
behaviors. The stimulants can also. He may be taking both.
Or possibly the animal tranquilizer, ketamine or PCP, angel
dust, which caused an extraordinary amount of violence
in one individual that made the national USA news recently,
hard to say, but some so-called designer drugs can do
permanent damage since they are made in home labs.

I don't know if the documentary was accurate,
knowing how tv can sensationalize, but one home-made drug,
just one dose, gave someone Parkinson's disease.
That's heavy duty and hard to believe but supposed so.

"One Two" wrote in message
om...
"Yowie" wrote in message
...

He reovered, and we figured that it was indeed due to the alteration
of his
brain chemistry due to the spiked drink. However, there was always a
possibility that the drug wasn't the *cause*, but the *trigger* and
that he
did indeed have schizophrenia proper.

Schizophrenia is usually a garbage term used for legal purposes.
Most "schizophrenics" are not violent. Quite the contrary.
He just sounds selfish, very selfish and unpleasant, which drugs
and/or alcohol can really bring out beyond a point of no return
sometimes, for a long time.

This fellow gives "mental illness" and drug taking a very bad name.
I have known druggies who were "crazy" and actually quite pleasant
and amusing.

I thought you posted that Joel's duty as the house-husband was to
protect you? He has to get his brother off drugs or it's like
having a violent alcoholic around, regardless if he is "mentally
ill" or not.

Nobody can get someone else off drugs unless the person wants to get off
them, and even then it's an uphill battle, at least for anyone who isn't
a professional.

Joy

You can vent anytime to us, Vicky.

From personal experience, I can sympathize with how difficult it is to have
a close family member diagnosed as schizophrenic. No matter what decision
you make you'll feel that you didn't do enough. Believe me, you and Joel
HAVE done enough and it's not fair for you to be put in a position where
"It's Us or Him". I wish there was an easy solution.

I'll be purring for you and Joel to find peace in your own home.

Love,
Flippy in Melbourne, Australia.
My Cats: http://www.flippyscatpage.com


"Yowie" wrote in message
...
Sorry to dump this on you guys, but I need to vent somewhere that is
understanding and sympathetic and nonjudgmental. And this is the place.

Don't know if you know the story of Daniel, Joel's younger brother. 3
years
ago, Daniel had his drink spiked and as a result went off his rocker right
around Christmas. He spent two weeks in the mental hospital with what
diagnosed at the time as "drug induced schizophrenia".

He reovered, and we figured that it was indeed due to the alteration of
his
brain chemistry due to the spiked drink. However, there was always a
possibility that the drug wasn't the *cause*, but the *trigger* and that
he
did indeed have schizophrenia proper.

Unfortunately, the weird and often violent behaviour returned about two
months ago, culminating in him assaulting his sister and completley
trashing
her house. He was taken to the mental hospital again, but the recovery
wasn't as quick this time, and apprantly its been complicated by his
co-dependency on other drugs so they still aren't sure whether its
schizophrenia proper or that he has been taken such a cocktail of
incompatable drugs that his brain chemistry just fell apart. This time, it
took him a very long time for him to even say out loud that he was in the
hospital because of his own behaviour and not because his sister was
"after
him". But when he was finally released, it seemed like he had come to
terms
withthe issue, realised that that drug cocktails were the reason he ended
up
inthe mental ward and had decided to go clean, and was looking forward to
resuming a normal life.

Only because he seemed so well recovered and that his sister,
understandably, could no longer bear the thought of him staying with her,
did we agree to tak him in temporarily. The idea was that since his job
pays
well, and he'd saved nearly $1000 while in hospital, he'd have enough
money
to find a small flat or good share accomodation within a week or two and
let
us have our nursery back. When he moved in, he happily agreed, indeed was
very enthusiastic, about the "house rules" and being a contributingmemeber
of the family again, He was happy to discuss what he needed to get done,
how
he was going to do it, and even his disgust and the various drugs and
their
dealers that got him into this situation in the first place. He even
entrusted Joel with $200 so that Joel could put it away for later.

But then he went out to see his mates the next day and hasn't been the
same.

One of the rules was that he couldn't drink or smoke pot or otherwise be
high when he was staying with us. Every timehe has come home after that,
he
has staggered around, his eyes been red, slitty and bloodshot, and he's
been
thoroughly uncomunicative. When he comes home. Some days he just doens't
come home. He hasn't helped at all around the house. He spent all his
svaings within 2 days (when he didn't come home) and even tookthe money
Joel
had been holding for him. He now expects us to pay for his cigarettes and
food. We can't talk to him about anything - his one word is "whatever".
He
insists he hasn't been smoking or drinking, but we can smell it on him,
and
keeps insisting nobody can tell him what to do , he can do anything he
wants. He hasn't done a damn thing around the house but expects his food
to
be cooked, his washing to be done, and to be cleaned up after. He didn't
even help clear out the nursery when he said he was going to help (so Joel
and I were left moving all thebaby stuff into the garage byourselves on
one
of the hottest days of the year - me with the pregnancy and Joel with his
dud knee) When he does come home, Joel and I huddle in Joel's bedroom
because we can't handle being around him, he mutters all the time and does
very strange, ritualistic things. He oozes resentment towards us, he's
back
to claiming his sister put him in hospital because *she's* the one with
mental problems. He's nearly 24. Also, and more concernign again is that
he
hasn't rung the mental health team like he's supposed to, or approached
his
own GP for a refill of his anti-psychotics (which he doesn't always take
anyway) and hasn't seen his psychiatrist anyway. He lies to the people who
come around and check up on him, lies to our faces, and lies to his
sister.
We've had enough and want him out.

The trouble is, we know damn well if we throw him out, he'll end up on the
streets, which won't help him at all. He'll either become one of those
weirdo homeless people who talks to ghosts in the street, a worse addict
and
criminal, commit suicide, or be murdered. Any way we look at it, throwing
him out is just going to make Daniel's problems a whole heap worse. And
yet,
we can't live our lives with him in the picture. He's not my relative so I
don't feel especially terrible, but Joel is effectively being forced to
make
a choice between his "old" family - ie his brother - and his "new" one, me
and our son, knowing full well that either way is going to have *bad*
consequences. There is no half way house we can put him in, we can't have
him committed involuntarily because technically he's currently not insane,
and we don't have the income to supply him with his own accomodation. We
are
stuck.

I know there is nothing you folks can do but purr for us. But I had to
vent.
The mental health system here is ridiculously underfunded and fully relies
on other people being willing to put up with this sh*t for the rest of
their
lives simply because they happen to share some DNA with the person in
question. There is no help, no respite, no system in place that gets us
out
of the bind. We either sacrifice our own lifestyles and live our lives as
dictated by Daniel's bizarre behaviour (and it wouldn't surprise me if he
starts stealing stuff from us soon), or we choose to sacrifice him
instead.
Even the local mental health team recognise its a ridiculous situation but
can't help on a practical level. And Joel has to decide between his
brother
and his wife & child. Utterly utterly mad.

Yowie

Mega-purrs coming your way Yowie. Mega-purrs. Been there, read the book, saw
the film and was related to the cast (my brother). It's not good. :-((


Many years ago, I took my brother in when he was doing the druggie bit,
combined with his being out of work, not looking for work and him thinking the
world owed him everything, nothing was his responsibility, he could do what he
wanted and tough toenails on theeffect of his behaviour on those around him. I
really, really feel for you & Joel. Actually there isn't a choice Joel has to
make - it's tough, but he *has* to put his child & wife first (in that order).
It's *not* Joel's fault his brother is on drugs & has mental problems. Joel
*can't* make it better for his brother - the only person who can make it better
is his brother. Honest. It took me a long, long time to understand that, in the
case of my brother, his putting the guilt of his situation on me (and every
other member of the family who had tried to be supportive and offer help), was
*his* problem and not mine - or the other family members as appropriate. It
took a long time for me to recognise that being supportive does not include
making "excuses" (for want of a better word) for the unacceptable behaviour of
a family member. It's tough, I know.


Hang in there girl.

*hugs* helen s


--This is an invalid email address to avoid spam--
to get correct one remove dependency on fame & fortune
h*$el*$$e**nd***$o$ts***i*$*$m**m$$o*n**s@$*$a$$o* *l.c**$*$om$$

On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:51:24 +1100, "Yowie"
wrote:

Sorry to dump this on you guys, but I need to vent somewhere that is
understanding and sympathetic and nonjudgmental. And this is the place.

Don't know if you know the story of Daniel, Joel's younger brother. 3 years
ago, Daniel had his drink spiked and as a result went off his rocker right
around Christmas. He spent two weeks in the mental hospital with what
diagnosed at the time as "drug induced schizophrenia".

He reovered, and we figured that it was indeed due to the alteration of his
brain chemistry due to the spiked drink. However, there was always a
possibility that the drug wasn't the *cause*, but the *trigger* and that he
did indeed have schizophrenia proper.

Unfortunately, the weird and often violent behaviour returned about two
months ago, culminating in him assaulting his sister and completley trashing
her house. He was taken to the mental hospital again, but the recovery
wasn't as quick this time, and apprantly its been complicated by his
co-dependency on other drugs so they still aren't sure whether its
schizophrenia proper or that he has been taken such a cocktail of
incompatable drugs that his brain chemistry just fell apart. This time, it
took him a very long time for him to even say out loud that he was in the
hospital because of his own behaviour and not because his sister was "after
him". But when he was finally released, it seemed like he had come to terms
withthe issue, realised that that drug cocktails were the reason he ended up
inthe mental ward and had decided to go clean, and was looking forward to
resuming a normal life.

Only because he seemed so well recovered and that his sister,
understandably, could no longer bear the thought of him staying with her,
did we agree to tak him in temporarily. The idea was that since his job pays
well, and he'd saved nearly $1000 while in hospital, he'd have enough money
to find a small flat or good share accomodation within a week or two and let
us have our nursery back. When he moved in, he happily agreed, indeed was
very enthusiastic, about the "house rules" and being a contributingmemeber
of the family again, He was happy to discuss what he needed to get done, how
he was going to do it, and even his disgust and the various drugs and their
dealers that got him into this situation in the first place. He even
entrusted Joel with $200 so that Joel could put it away for later.

But then he went out to see his mates the next day and hasn't been the same.

One of the rules was that he couldn't drink or smoke pot or otherwise be
high when he was staying with us. Every timehe has come home after that, he
has staggered around, his eyes been red, slitty and bloodshot, and he's been
thoroughly uncomunicative. When he comes home. Some days he just doens't
come home. He hasn't helped at all around the house. He spent all his
svaings within 2 days (when he didn't come home) and even tookthe money Joel
had been holding for him. He now expects us to pay for his cigarettes and
food. We can't talk to him about anything - his one word is "whatever". He
insists he hasn't been smoking or drinking, but we can smell it on him, and
keeps insisting nobody can tell him what to do , he can do anything he
wants. He hasn't done a damn thing around the house but expects his food to
be cooked, his washing to be done, and to be cleaned up after. He didn't
even help clear out the nursery when he said he was going to help (so Joel
and I were left moving all thebaby stuff into the garage byourselves on one
of the hottest days of the year - me with the pregnancy and Joel with his
dud knee) When he does come home, Joel and I huddle in Joel's bedroom
because we can't handle being around him, he mutters all the time and does
very strange, ritualistic things. He oozes resentment towards us, he's back
to claiming his sister put him in hospital because *she's* the one with
mental problems. He's nearly 24. Also, and more concernign again is that he
hasn't rung the mental health team like he's supposed to, or approached his
own GP for a refill of his anti-psychotics (which he doesn't always take
anyway) and hasn't seen his psychiatrist anyway. He lies to the people who
come around and check up on him, lies to our faces, and lies to his sister.
We've had enough and want him out.

The trouble is, we know damn well if we throw him out, he'll end up on the
streets, which won't help him at all. He'll either become one of those
weirdo homeless people who talks to ghosts in the street, a worse addict and
criminal, commit suicide, or be murdered. Any way we look at it, throwing
him out is just going to make Daniel's problems a whole heap worse. And yet,
we can't live our lives with him in the picture. He's not my relative so I
don't feel especially terrible, but Joel is effectively being forced to make
a choice between his "old" family - ie his brother - and his "new" one, me
and our son, knowing full well that either way is going to have *bad*
consequences. There is no half way house we can put him in, we can't have
him committed involuntarily because technically he's currently not insane,
and we don't have the income to supply him with his own accomodation. We are
stuck.

I know there is nothing you folks can do but purr for us. But I had to vent.
The mental health system here is ridiculously underfunded and fully relies
on other people being willing to put up with this sh*t for the rest of their
lives simply because they happen to share some DNA with the person in
question. There is no help, no respite, no system in place that gets us out
of the bind. We either sacrifice our own lifestyles and live our lives as
dictated by Daniel's bizarre behaviour (and it wouldn't surprise me if he
starts stealing stuff from us soon), or we choose to sacrifice him instead.
Even the local mental health team recognise its a ridiculous situation but
can't help on a practical level. And Joel has to decide between his brother
and his wife & child. Utterly utterly mad.

Yowie



{{{{Yowie}}}} I really feel for you. Believe me, the mental health
system in the US is just as bad, if not worse. And I understand how
very frustrating, and maybe even frightening (waiting for that
proverbial shoe to drop) this situation is. I wish I had some good
solution for you, but I don't. My brother is bipolar, and when my
mother was alive, she had to deal with so much of the sort of thing
you are talking about. I was out on my own by that time, but had to
deal while visiting with things like him standing in my bedroom late
at night, and when I woke up, he threatened to kill me. It was awful.

Mother eventually died, and John got the right to live in her home as
long as he wishes, even though we own it half and half. Sometimes he
would go on tirades and call me, but he seems to have settled down
into just living minimally, and he has a place to live. For my mental
health and his, I tend to have minimal contact with him.

I surely hope you can figure something out. I worry about him being
there with you right now, and becoming dangerous. Please protect
yourselves first and foremost if it looks like he may become violent
at all. He may end on the streets, but at least you, Joel and your
baby will be fine.

Otherwise, keep pushing for other alternatives. Why are there no
halfway houses? Are there lists he could get onto? Sometimes there
are programs or options that people do not want to tell you about,
but they will if you push them hard enough.

Best of luck, and purrs coming your way.

Ginger-lyn

Yowie wrote in message
...
Sorry to dump this on you guys, but I need to vent somewhere that is
understanding and sympathetic and nonjudgmental. And this is the place.


Yowie, with this kind of behaviour comes physical danger for you and your
child. He SHOULD be in hospital, he should NOT be in your home, with you and
Joel too scared to leave your room.

You are a lovely, wonderful person, nobody doubts this.

I agree with MaryL, you have been placed in an impossible situation and I
believe you to be in serious danger - your wellbeing and that of your unborn
child *MUST* come first.

Here in NZ our mental health system is very run down - in recent years
family members have been murdered by their kinfolk they have been forced to
take in (not trying to frighten you just trying to re-enforce how serious I
believe the situation to be)
Please, please be on your guard.

Joel's first commitment is to you and the baby - he is *not* responsible for
his brother.

Purrs for a happy outcome.

Lois

"MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER wrote in message
...

"Yowie" wrote in message
...
Sorry to dump this on you guys, but I need to vent somewhere that is
understanding and sympathetic and nonjudgmental. And this is the place.


You are facing a truly dreadful problem. You didn't ask for advice, and I
have no expertise in this area. Nevertheless, I am going to offer some
unsolicited advice. I think you need to get Daniel out of your home.
Immediately! From your description, I think all of you could be in
danger;
and you simply cannot afford to wait and see what Daniel will do next.
You
did say that throwing him out would make his problems worse. I disagree.
I
don't think they can get much worse, but yours certainly can. He has
already already assaulted his sister. If he "explodes," the same thing
(or
worse!) could happen to you or your child. I think you need to get him
out
of the house immediately and also change all locks. It might be wise to
ask
for a police escort at the time you remove him from the home. If there
are
any shelters for people in your area, I would talk to them first and see
if
arrangements can be made for him to stay there. Then pack his bags, drive
him there, and refuse to leave with him. That may sound terribly harsh,
but
this situation sounds desperate.

MaryL

Can't you get him back to the hospital, if he is once again blaming his
sister for his problems? I understand he is Joel's family, but he has broken
all of the rules he (at first) agreed to and you are doing much more than
your share of the bargain. If you can't get him to the hospital, can you
tell him you will *not* allow such behaviour and if he continues like that,
you *will* throw him out. I am really worried about you and your baby,
Vicky, since he has a history of attacking (and blaming) other people who
are trying to help *him*. Please try to get you, your baby and Joel out of
this situation, even though I understand it is hard.
We are thinking of you, sending best wishes and purrs,
--
Polonca & Soncek

"Yowie" wrote in message
...
Sorry to dump this on you guys, but I need to vent somewhere that is
understanding and sympathetic and nonjudgmental. And this is the place.

Don't know if you know the story of Daniel, Joel's younger brother. 3
years
ago, Daniel had his drink spiked and as a result went off his rocker right
around Christmas. He spent two weeks in the mental hospital with what
diagnosed at the time as "drug induced schizophrenia".
snip