diabetes ???s and food issues

How do you handle two cats with different diets that don't understand they're
not supposed to eat the other cat's food?

Priss (age 15 1/2) was diagnosed with CRF 2 1/2 years ago, but with improved
nutrition (Wellness canned and Royal Canin sr. dry), her numbers went back
solidly into the normal range and have stayed there for 2 years. My vet still
considers her a CRF cat, though, and I consider her vulnerable.

Eddie (age 9 1/2) was just diagnosed as borderline for diabetes. My vet wants
him to eat a high protein diet.

The Wellness and Royal Canin aren't exactly low protein, but they're not the
highest, either. I can probably get Eddie to eat most of his food at
breakfast, so if I select a higher protein product, I can put that out first
thing in the morning, then pull it and put down the Wellness and Royal Canin,
which Priss will eat later in the morning and Eddie will nibble at. This is
where my vet and I left the conversation this evening. Eddie needs more
testing, so we'll no doubt pick it up again soon.

Yet I'm still not sure how to handle this. Has anyone dealt with this
situation of the (possibly) conflicting diets? I don't want to switch away
from the Wellness/Royal Canin combination since it caused Priss's kidney
numbers to improve. That might have happened with other foods, too, but this
worked, and I don't want to mess with it. But I need to take care of Eddie's
needs, too. And I don't know what the best foods are for diabetic cats.

Also, are there any particularly helpful websites for dealing with feline
diabetes? Or does anyone with experience in this have any advice? My vet says
that for a lot of people, the idea of giving a shot is difficult. That is one
problem I don't expect to have. I've given shots to a dog, so it's not totally
new to me. I just need to be shown the best way to do it with my own cat and
practice a couple of times with the vet present. But I'm really concerned
about the progression of the disease and how to keep him happy and healthy for
as long as possible.

Thanks,
Daria

Timing is everything.

I would recommend going to http://www.felinediabetes.com/fdmb/frames.pl for
feline diabetes question.

--
Larry - Owned by six cats
"DG511" wrote in message
...
How do you handle two cats with different diets that don't understand
they're
not supposed to eat the other cat's food?

Priss (age 15 1/2) was diagnosed with CRF 2 1/2 years ago, but with
improved
nutrition (Wellness canned and Royal Canin sr. dry), her numbers went back
solidly into the normal range and have stayed there for 2 years. My vet
still
considers her a CRF cat, though, and I consider her vulnerable.

Eddie (age 9 1/2) was just diagnosed as borderline for diabetes. My vet
wants
him to eat a high protein diet.

The Wellness and Royal Canin aren't exactly low protein, but they're not
the
highest, either. I can probably get Eddie to eat most of his food at
breakfast, so if I select a higher protein product, I can put that out
first
thing in the morning, then pull it and put down the Wellness and Royal
Canin,
which Priss will eat later in the morning and Eddie will nibble at. This
is
where my vet and I left the conversation this evening. Eddie needs more
testing, so we'll no doubt pick it up again soon.

Yet I'm still not sure how to handle this. Has anyone dealt with this
situation of the (possibly) conflicting diets? I don't want to switch
away
from the Wellness/Royal Canin combination since it caused Priss's kidney
numbers to improve. That might have happened with other foods, too, but
this
worked, and I don't want to mess with it. But I need to take care of
Eddie's
needs, too. And I don't know what the best foods are for diabetic cats.

Also, are there any particularly helpful websites for dealing with feline
diabetes? Or does anyone with experience in this have any advice? My vet
says
that for a lot of people, the idea of giving a shot is difficult. That is
one
problem I don't expect to have. I've given shots to a dog, so it's not
totally
new to me. I just need to be shown the best way to do it with my own cat
and
practice a couple of times with the vet present. But I'm really concerned
about the progression of the disease and how to keep him happy and healthy
for
as long as possible.

Thanks,
Daria

Timing is everything.

I would recommend going to http://www.felinediabetes.com/fdmb/frames.pl for
feline diabetes question.

--
Larry - Owned by six cats
"DG511" wrote in message
...
How do you handle two cats with different diets that don't understand
they're
not supposed to eat the other cat's food?

Priss (age 15 1/2) was diagnosed with CRF 2 1/2 years ago, but with
improved
nutrition (Wellness canned and Royal Canin sr. dry), her numbers went back
solidly into the normal range and have stayed there for 2 years. My vet
still
considers her a CRF cat, though, and I consider her vulnerable.

Eddie (age 9 1/2) was just diagnosed as borderline for diabetes. My vet
wants
him to eat a high protein diet.

The Wellness and Royal Canin aren't exactly low protein, but they're not
the
highest, either. I can probably get Eddie to eat most of his food at
breakfast, so if I select a higher protein product, I can put that out
first
thing in the morning, then pull it and put down the Wellness and Royal
Canin,
which Priss will eat later in the morning and Eddie will nibble at. This
is
where my vet and I left the conversation this evening. Eddie needs more
testing, so we'll no doubt pick it up again soon.

Yet I'm still not sure how to handle this. Has anyone dealt with this
situation of the (possibly) conflicting diets? I don't want to switch
away
from the Wellness/Royal Canin combination since it caused Priss's kidney
numbers to improve. That might have happened with other foods, too, but
this
worked, and I don't want to mess with it. But I need to take care of
Eddie's
needs, too. And I don't know what the best foods are for diabetic cats.

Also, are there any particularly helpful websites for dealing with feline
diabetes? Or does anyone with experience in this have any advice? My vet
says
that for a lot of people, the idea of giving a shot is difficult. That is
one
problem I don't expect to have. I've given shots to a dog, so it's not
totally
new to me. I just need to be shown the best way to do it with my own cat
and
practice a couple of times with the vet present. But I'm really concerned
about the progression of the disease and how to keep him happy and healthy
for
as long as possible.

Thanks,
Daria

Timing is everything.

DG511 wrote:
Eddie (age 9 1/2) was just diagnosed as borderline for diabetes. My vet wants
him to eat a high protein diet.

The Wellness and Royal Canin aren't exactly low protein, but they're not the
highest, either. I can probably get Eddie to eat most of his food at
breakfast, so if I select a higher protein product, I can put that out first
thing in the morning, then pull it and put down the Wellness and Royal Canin,
which Priss will eat later in the morning and Eddie will nibble at. This is
where my vet and I left the conversation this evening. Eddie needs more
testing, so we'll no doubt pick it up again soon.

Wellness canned is plenty adequate protein for a diabetic cat.
The vet probably didn't want to use the trendy term "low-carb",
and said high protein instead. The carb content is the relevant
issue for the diabetic. Canned kitten food is often recommended,
because it has higher protein and lower carb, but I'm pretty sure the
Wellness has as much protein, and is lower carb than, for example,
Science Diet or Iams canned kitten food.

The Royal Canin dry is probably going to be too high in carbs for him,
though. I limit dry food to a small snack of a heaping tablespoon
for each cat in the evening, because they still beg for crunchies.
I give them the Purina prescription diabetes dry for their snack.
It's very high in protein, but it's about 11 to 13% carb (the
sugarcats site is down, so I can't look the exact figures up), while
the Wellness (chicken, turkey, chicken & herring, turkey & salmon)
is about 3 percent carb.

--
jamie )

"There's a seeker born every minute."

DG511 wrote:
Eddie (age 9 1/2) was just diagnosed as borderline for diabetes. My vet wants
him to eat a high protein diet.

The Wellness and Royal Canin aren't exactly low protein, but they're not the
highest, either. I can probably get Eddie to eat most of his food at
breakfast, so if I select a higher protein product, I can put that out first
thing in the morning, then pull it and put down the Wellness and Royal Canin,
which Priss will eat later in the morning and Eddie will nibble at. This is
where my vet and I left the conversation this evening. Eddie needs more
testing, so we'll no doubt pick it up again soon.

Wellness canned is plenty adequate protein for a diabetic cat.
The vet probably didn't want to use the trendy term "low-carb",
and said high protein instead. The carb content is the relevant
issue for the diabetic. Canned kitten food is often recommended,
because it has higher protein and lower carb, but I'm pretty sure the
Wellness has as much protein, and is lower carb than, for example,
Science Diet or Iams canned kitten food.

The Royal Canin dry is probably going to be too high in carbs for him,
though. I limit dry food to a small snack of a heaping tablespoon
for each cat in the evening, because they still beg for crunchies.
I give them the Purina prescription diabetes dry for their snack.
It's very high in protein, but it's about 11 to 13% carb (the
sugarcats site is down, so I can't look the exact figures up), while
the Wellness (chicken, turkey, chicken & herring, turkey & salmon)
is about 3 percent carb.

--
jamie )

"There's a seeker born every minute."

What was your cats BG number? Is he overweight? By saying high protein,
your vet is really saying low-carbs. The best diet for a diabetic cat is
a canned low-carb diet and NO DRY FOOD. I'm working with a diabetic cat
right now that switched from dry to canned and just doing that brought
his BG down over 200 points. Wellness *canned* is a perfect food for
diabetic cats and most flavors are lower in carbs than the prescription
diets, not to mention much better quality.

These are "as fed" numbers for carb% which are more accurate than the
guaranteed analysis numbers:

Purina DM =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 7

Wellness:

Turkey & Salmon =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 3.2
Chicken =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 4.2
Turkey =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 2.5
Beef & Chicken =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 2.2
Chicken & Lobster =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 4.8
Salmon &Trout =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 7.7
Sardines, Shrimp & Crab =A0 5.9
Chicken & Herring =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 5.9


If you need help feel free to email me.

Megan



"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."

-Edmund Burke

Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
http://www.stopdeclaw.com

Zuzu's Cats Photo Album:
http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22

"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one
elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and
splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then
providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision,
raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and
material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his
way."

- W.H. Murray

What was your cats BG number? Is he overweight? By saying high protein,
your vet is really saying low-carbs. The best diet for a diabetic cat is
a canned low-carb diet and NO DRY FOOD. I'm working with a diabetic cat
right now that switched from dry to canned and just doing that brought
his BG down over 200 points. Wellness *canned* is a perfect food for
diabetic cats and most flavors are lower in carbs than the prescription
diets, not to mention much better quality.

These are "as fed" numbers for carb% which are more accurate than the
guaranteed analysis numbers:

Purina DM =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 7

Wellness:

Turkey & Salmon =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 3.2
Chicken =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 4.2
Turkey =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 2.5
Beef & Chicken =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 2.2
Chicken & Lobster =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 4.8
Salmon &Trout =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 7.7
Sardines, Shrimp & Crab =A0 5.9
Chicken & Herring =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 5.9


If you need help feel free to email me.

Megan



"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."

-Edmund Burke

Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
http://www.stopdeclaw.com

Zuzu's Cats Photo Album:
http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22

"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one
elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and
splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then
providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision,
raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and
material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his
way."

- W.H. Murray

Thanks for the responses. I took a quick look at www.felinediabetes.com and
bookmarked it.

It is a *HUGE* relief to read that Wellness is a good food for diabetic cats!
My cats love it so much, and I think it's been the main reason my CRF kitty's
numbers went back into the normal range. I don't want to have to juggle one
cat's health against the other's, and if I can continue feeding Wellness, that
removes that headache.

I'm going to call my vet tomorrow and talk further (today is her day off). She
gave me some Purina DM, and I gave Eddie a couple of tablespoons this morning.
He gobbled it right down. I then put out the usual Wellness.

I think the challenge now is to transition the two cats to an all-canned diet.
They love their crunchies, but I think what I will do is put down another small
can of Wellness in the evening and gradually decrease the dry food down to 1/4
cup per day, then see if I can get rid of it altogether.



writes:

What was your cats BG number?

It was 288. In June, all of his numbers were completely normal, so it seems
like this came on suddenly. (We did blood work for a dental then.)

Is he overweight?

No. He weighed 12 pounds in June, and 10.4 pounds when I took him in
Wednesday. He's always been in the 11-12 pound range, and the vet has always
considered that appropriate.

By saying high protein,
your vet is really saying low-carbs. The best diet for a diabetic cat is
a canned low-carb diet and NO DRY FOOD. I'm working with a diabetic cat
right now that switched from dry to canned and just doing that brought
his BG down over 200 points.

How did you make the switch? I had two dry food bowls out (two feeding
locations) and pulled the big one.

Wellness *canned* is a perfect food for
diabetic cats and most flavors are lower in carbs than the prescription
diets, not to mention much better quality.

My vet had heard that Wellness was good -- she mentioned that before I left her
office yesterday -- but didn't have any data on hand to compare it to Purina
DM. (Her partner specializes in pet nutrition issues, and they do discuss
cases like this, so I may ask her to get the partner's input.) Is there an
online source that compares the various catfoods?

These are "as fed" numbers for carb% which are more accurate than the
guaranteed analysis numbers:

Purina DM =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 7

Wellness:

Turkey & Salmon =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 3.2
Chicken =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 4.2
Turkey =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 2.5
Beef & Chicken =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 2.2
Chicken & Lobster =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 4.8
Salmon &Trout =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 7.7
Sardines, Shrimp & Crab =A0 5.9
Chicken & Herring =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 5.9


These are great numbers! If this is from an on-line source, can you provide
the link so I can check it myself?

Thanks again,
Daria

Timing is everything.

Thanks for the responses. I took a quick look at www.felinediabetes.com and
bookmarked it.

It is a *HUGE* relief to read that Wellness is a good food for diabetic cats!
My cats love it so much, and I think it's been the main reason my CRF kitty's
numbers went back into the normal range. I don't want to have to juggle one
cat's health against the other's, and if I can continue feeding Wellness, that
removes that headache.

I'm going to call my vet tomorrow and talk further (today is her day off). She
gave me some Purina DM, and I gave Eddie a couple of tablespoons this morning.
He gobbled it right down. I then put out the usual Wellness.

I think the challenge now is to transition the two cats to an all-canned diet.
They love their crunchies, but I think what I will do is put down another small
can of Wellness in the evening and gradually decrease the dry food down to 1/4
cup per day, then see if I can get rid of it altogether.



writes:

What was your cats BG number?

It was 288. In June, all of his numbers were completely normal, so it seems
like this came on suddenly. (We did blood work for a dental then.)

Is he overweight?

No. He weighed 12 pounds in June, and 10.4 pounds when I took him in
Wednesday. He's always been in the 11-12 pound range, and the vet has always
considered that appropriate.

By saying high protein,
your vet is really saying low-carbs. The best diet for a diabetic cat is
a canned low-carb diet and NO DRY FOOD. I'm working with a diabetic cat
right now that switched from dry to canned and just doing that brought
his BG down over 200 points.

How did you make the switch? I had two dry food bowls out (two feeding
locations) and pulled the big one.

Wellness *canned* is a perfect food for
diabetic cats and most flavors are lower in carbs than the prescription
diets, not to mention much better quality.

My vet had heard that Wellness was good -- she mentioned that before I left her
office yesterday -- but didn't have any data on hand to compare it to Purina
DM. (Her partner specializes in pet nutrition issues, and they do discuss
cases like this, so I may ask her to get the partner's input.) Is there an
online source that compares the various catfoods?

These are "as fed" numbers for carb% which are more accurate than the
guaranteed analysis numbers:

Purina DM =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 7

Wellness:

Turkey & Salmon =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 3.2
Chicken =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 4.2
Turkey =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 2.5
Beef & Chicken =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 2.2
Chicken & Lobster =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 4.8
Salmon &Trout =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 7.7
Sardines, Shrimp & Crab =A0 5.9
Chicken & Herring =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 5.9


These are great numbers! If this is from an on-line source, can you provide
the link so I can check it myself?

Thanks again,
Daria

Timing is everything.

am (DG511)


What was your cats BG number?


It was 288. In June, all of his numbers
were completely normal, so it seems like
this came on suddenly. (We did blood
work for a dental then.)

High BG can be brought on by infection (possibly related to his teeth)
and stress, and at this number, I wouldn't be in a hurry to put your cat
on insulin. My guess is that if you switch to a canned diet on a 12 hour
schedule and completely eliminate dry food your cat's numbers will go
back to normal. The sooner you do this, the better. The smartest thing
you can do is get a glucose monitor, learn to use it and start checking
his bg at home. You can do an intial curve yourself every 2 hours over a
12 hour period starting right before he gets his morning meal (give no
food until the end of the curve). This will be much more accurate than a
curve done at the vet as stress associated with being at the vet all day
tends to raise bg numbers. After that you can check him for a little
bit once right before he eats and then at 4 and 6 hours after that. This
will give you a good idea of what his body his doing without insulin and
tell you if he's reverting back to normal numbers with just diet and low
stress. I highly recommend the One Touch Ultra monitor.

Is he overweight?

No. He weighed 12 pounds in June, and
10.4 pounds when I took him in
Wednesday. He's always been in the 11-12
pound range, and the vet has always
considered that appropriate.

Good.

=A0=A0
By saying high protein,
your vet is really saying low-carbs. The
best diet for a diabetic cat is a canned
low-carb diet and NO DRY FOOD. I'm
working with a diabetic cat right now
that switched from dry to canned and
just doing that brought his BG down over
200 points.


How did you make the switch? I had two
dry food bowls out (two feeding
locations) and pulled the big one.

If they like the canned, just do it. Measure out what they need in daily
calories to maintain weight and feed half of that every 12 hours. In
the beginning, since they are used to snacking, they may not eat
everything all at once so it would be ok to leave it out longer at
first. Eventually they'll eat everything in a half hour or less.


Wellness *canned* is a perfect food for
diabetic cats and most flavors are lower
in carbs than the prescription diets,
not to mention much better quality.


My vet had heard that Wellness was good
-- she mentioned that before I left her
office yesterday -- but didn't have any
data on hand to compare it to Purina DM.
(Her partner specializes in pet
nutrition issues, and they do discuss
cases like this, so I may ask her to get
the partner's input.) Is there an online
source that compares the various
catfoods?


This page did not work just now, but maybe it's just down for a minute:

http://www.sugarcats.net/sites/jmpeerson/canfood.html


These are "as fed" numbers for carb%
which are more accurate than the
guaranteed analysis numbers:

Purina DM 7

Wellness:
Turkey & Salmon 3.2
Chicken 4.2
Turkey 2.5
Beef & Chicken 2.2
Chicken & Lobster 4.8

Salmon &Trout 7.7
Sardines, Shrimp & Crab 5.9
Chicken & Herring 5.9


These are great numbers! If this is from
an on-line source, can you provide the
link so I can check it myself?


No, I called the company, got the "as fed" numbers and then used the
standard formula for calculating on a dry matter basis. They're
accurate.

Megan



"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."

-Edmund Burke

Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
http://www.stopdeclaw.com

Zuzu's Cats Photo Album:
http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22

"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one
elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and
splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then
providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision,
raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and
material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his
way."

- W.H. Murray