New to group

Hi,

Decided to add this group to my list of subscribed, as I just found
out yesterday that my 14 yr. old male neuter Maine Coon boy, Geordi,
is diabetic. He'd been drinking lots of water and peeing a lot for
the past week, so I took him and his step-brother, Data, (who is 13
days older) in for tests. Doc says most readings were fine for
'cats their age'. However, Geordi's BG was 500+ (normal range is 70
to 120). Tomorrow he will spend the day at the vet clinic for a
Glucose Curve test, and I suppose I will be instructed on how to
administer shots when I go to pick him up.

I was a bit lucky that, due to high winds, the power was knocked out
at work yesterday, and I was able to go home (after getting the news
about Geordi's diabetes straight from the Vet) and get on the internet
and take a "crash course" in diabetes management. I think I have a
decent grasp on all the fundamentals.

I've been considering "home monitoring", using something like the "One
Touch Ultra" glucose monitor system. Ear pricks seem to be the norm
for this with cats. Anyone have any experience with this sort of
thing? Seems to me it would be hard to develop a decent droplet with
the naturally furry ears of my Maine Coon boy.

After 14 wonderful years with my boys, I just want to do what's best
for them, and I think this group will be a good resource. BTW, Geordi
is also chronically constipated, which I've been dealing with
(somewhat successfully) with Lactulose and Petromalt. His step-brother
hasn't either problem (diabetes or constipation). The vet says its
more a "motility problem" than anything else ... NOT mega-colon. I've
noted recommendations for Petromalt fiber capsules, and will look or
those.

Looking forward to your input ...

Bill, and his boys, Data & Geordi (both 14 yr. old Maine Coon neuters)

The One Touch Ultra is a very good meter. I have one each for my Mitten and
Bailey. My Mario uses FreeStyle Flash. Come on over to the Feline
Diabetes Message Board (http://www.felinediabetes.com/phorum5/index.php?0)
to ask any question.

--
Larry - Owned by eight cats
"Darmok" wrote in message
...
Hi,

Decided to add this group to my list of subscribed, as I just found
out yesterday that my 14 yr. old male neuter Maine Coon boy, Geordi,
is diabetic. He'd been drinking lots of water and peeing a lot for
the past week, so I took him and his step-brother, Data, (who is 13
days older) in for tests. Doc says most readings were fine for
'cats their age'. However, Geordi's BG was 500+ (normal range is 70
to 120). Tomorrow he will spend the day at the vet clinic for a
Glucose Curve test, and I suppose I will be instructed on how to
administer shots when I go to pick him up.

I was a bit lucky that, due to high winds, the power was knocked out
at work yesterday, and I was able to go home (after getting the news
about Geordi's diabetes straight from the Vet) and get on the internet
and take a "crash course" in diabetes management. I think I have a
decent grasp on all the fundamentals.

I've been considering "home monitoring", using something like the "One
Touch Ultra" glucose monitor system. Ear pricks seem to be the norm
for this with cats. Anyone have any experience with this sort of
thing? Seems to me it would be hard to develop a decent droplet with
the naturally furry ears of my Maine Coon boy.

After 14 wonderful years with my boys, I just want to do what's best
for them, and I think this group will be a good resource. BTW, Geordi
is also chronically constipated, which I've been dealing with
(somewhat successfully) with Lactulose and Petromalt. His step-brother
hasn't either problem (diabetes or constipation). The vet says its
more a "motility problem" than anything else ... NOT mega-colon. I've
noted recommendations for Petromalt fiber capsules, and will look or
those.

Looking forward to your input ...

Bill, and his boys, Data & Geordi (both 14 yr. old Maine Coon neuters)

"Darmok" wrote in message
...
Hi,

Decided to add this group to my list of subscribed, as I just found
out yesterday that my 14 yr. old male neuter Maine Coon boy, Geordi,
is diabetic. He'd been drinking lots of water and peeing a lot for
the past week, so I took him and his step-brother, Data, (who is 13
days older) in for tests. Doc says most readings were fine for
'cats their age'. However, Geordi's BG was 500+ (normal range is 70
to 120). Tomorrow he will spend the day at the vet clinic for a
Glucose Curve test, and I suppose I will be instructed on how to
administer shots when I go to pick him up.

I was a bit lucky that, due to high winds, the power was knocked out
at work yesterday, and I was able to go home (after getting the news
about Geordi's diabetes straight from the Vet) and get on the internet
and take a "crash course" in diabetes management. I think I have a
decent grasp on all the fundamentals.

I've been considering "home monitoring", using something like the "One
Touch Ultra" glucose monitor system. Ear pricks seem to be the norm
for this with cats. Anyone have any experience with this sort of
thing? Seems to me it would be hard to develop a decent droplet with
the naturally furry ears of my Maine Coon boy.

After 14 wonderful years with my boys, I just want to do what's best
for them, and I think this group will be a good resource. BTW, Geordi
is also chronically constipated, which I've been dealing with
(somewhat successfully) with Lactulose and Petromalt. His step-brother
hasn't either problem (diabetes or constipation). The vet says its
more a "motility problem" than anything else ... NOT mega-colon. I've
noted recommendations for Petromalt fiber capsules, and will look or
those.

Looking forward to your input ...

Bill, and his boys, Data & Geordi (both 14 yr. old Maine Coon neuters)



I'm sorry to hear about the diabetes, but you are fortunate to have a quick
diagnosis. Cats with diabetes can live long, happy lives. Here is an
article you might want to read, written by someone who has a lot of
experience with feline diabetes:
http://community-2.webtv.net/getcathelp/diabetes/
That same site includes a number of links to other excellent resources on
diabetes in cats.

Welcome to the group!

MaryL

"Darmok" wrote in message
...
Hi,

Decided to add this group to my list of subscribed, as I just found
out yesterday that my 14 yr. old male neuter Maine Coon boy, Geordi,
is diabetic. He'd been drinking lots of water and peeing a lot for
the past week, so I took him and his step-brother, Data, (who is 13
days older) in for tests. Doc says most readings were fine for
'cats their age'. However, Geordi's BG was 500+ (normal range is 70
to 120). Tomorrow he will spend the day at the vet clinic for a
Glucose Curve test, and I suppose I will be instructed on how to
administer shots when I go to pick him up.

I was a bit lucky that, due to high winds, the power was knocked out
at work yesterday, and I was able to go home (after getting the news
about Geordi's diabetes straight from the Vet) and get on the internet
and take a "crash course" in diabetes management. I think I have a
decent grasp on all the fundamentals.

I've been considering "home monitoring", using something like the "One
Touch Ultra" glucose monitor system. Ear pricks seem to be the norm
for this with cats. Anyone have any experience with this sort of
thing? Seems to me it would be hard to develop a decent droplet with
the naturally furry ears of my Maine Coon boy.

After 14 wonderful years with my boys, I just want to do what's best
for them, and I think this group will be a good resource. BTW, Geordi
is also chronically constipated, which I've been dealing with
(somewhat successfully) with Lactulose and Petromalt. His step-brother
hasn't either problem (diabetes or constipation). The vet says its
more a "motility problem" than anything else ... NOT mega-colon. I've
noted recommendations for Petromalt fiber capsules, and will look or
those.


Bill,

Speak to your vet about Ranitidine (Zantac). Its the only H2 receptor
antagonist (over the counter) drug that stimulates gastrointestinal motility
in cats. In fact, before Janssen took cisapride (Propulsid) off the US
markets (due to human adverse effects that don't occur in cats), ranitidine
proved effective in many cats that didn't respond to cisapride. However,
for most chronically constipated cats, a combination of lactulose and
cisapride is still the best treatment. Although cisapride is no longer
available commercially in the US, there are still ways to get it.

Geordi's diabetes, in many cats, diabetes can be controlled by diet
*alone* without the need for insulin. Is Geordi overweight? Obesity can
cause a *reversible* insulin resistance that usually resolves when the cat
is brought down (gradually) to his ideal weight.

One last note; glucose curves plotted in the vet's office are not as
accurate as curves plotted at home. Most cats are stressed by trips to the
vet - stress can send a cat's BG soaring to 400 mg/dl. Also the accuracy
of the GC depends on feeding the cat the *same* food, the *same* amount and
at the *same* times at home as during the test.

Most cats are reluctant to eat while at the vet - or they'll just nibble -
which sometimes results in force-feeding which only increases stress and the
possibility of developing an aversion to the food (the cat associates the
unpleasant experience of force feeding with the food). Feeding has a
*tremendous* affect on the GC.

Home GCs involve little more than checking his BG every 2 hours for just one
day. Here's a short video another poster produced that shows you how to do
it:

http://www.maxshouse.com/bgtest%5B1%5D.mpg

http://www.maxshouse.com/bgtest.rm

Home GCs are more accurate because the cat isn't stressed, he's eating is
normal food on his normal schedule on his own turf..

hth,

Phil

On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 01:17:53 GMT, "Larry"
wrote:

The One Touch Ultra is a very good meter. I have one each for my Mitten and
Bailey. My Mario uses FreeStyle Flash. Come on over to the Feline
Diabetes Message Board (http://www.felinediabetes.com/phorum5/index.php?0)
to ask any question.


Thanks .. I've book marked the site to check out after I get home from
work today.

On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 00:50:59 -0600, "MaryL"
-OUT-THE-LITTER wrote:


"Darmok" wrote in message
.. .
Hi,

Decided to add this group to my list of subscribed, as I just found
out yesterday that my 14 yr. old male neuter Maine Coon boy, Geordi,
is diabetic. He'd been drinking lots of water and peeing a lot for
the past week, so I took him and his step-brother, Data, (who is 13
days older) in for tests. Doc says most readings were fine for
'cats their age'. However, Geordi's BG was 500+ (normal range is 70
to 120). Tomorrow he will spend the day at the vet clinic for a
Glucose Curve test, and I suppose I will be instructed on how to
administer shots when I go to pick him up.

I was a bit lucky that, due to high winds, the power was knocked out
at work yesterday, and I was able to go home (after getting the news
about Geordi's diabetes straight from the Vet) and get on the internet
and take a "crash course" in diabetes management. I think I have a
decent grasp on all the fundamentals.

I've been considering "home monitoring", using something like the "One
Touch Ultra" glucose monitor system. Ear pricks seem to be the norm
for this with cats. Anyone have any experience with this sort of
thing? Seems to me it would be hard to develop a decent droplet with
the naturally furry ears of my Maine Coon boy.

After 14 wonderful years with my boys, I just want to do what's best
for them, and I think this group will be a good resource. BTW, Geordi
is also chronically constipated, which I've been dealing with
(somewhat successfully) with Lactulose and Petromalt. His step-brother
hasn't either problem (diabetes or constipation). The vet says its
more a "motility problem" than anything else ... NOT mega-colon. I've
noted recommendations for Petromalt fiber capsules, and will look or
those.

Looking forward to your input ...

Bill, and his boys, Data & Geordi (both 14 yr. old Maine Coon neuters)



I'm sorry to hear about the diabetes, but you are fortunate to have a quick
diagnosis. Cats with diabetes can live long, happy lives. Here is an
article you might want to read, written by someone who has a lot of
experience with feline diabetes:
http://community-2.webtv.net/getcathelp/diabetes/
That same site includes a number of links to other excellent resources on
diabetes in cats.

Welcome to the group!

MaryL


Thanks Mary. I've also book marked that article, and I'll check it out
when I get home tonight.

On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 02:58:07 -0500, "Phil P."
wrote:


Bill,

Speak to your vet about Ranitidine (Zantac). Its the only H2 receptor
antagonist (over the counter) drug that stimulates gastrointestinal motility
in cats. In fact, before Janssen took cisapride (Propulsid) off the US
markets (due to human adverse effects that don't occur in cats), ranitidine
proved effective in many cats that didn't respond to cisapride. However,
for most chronically constipated cats, a combination of lactulose and
cisapride is still the best treatment. Although cisapride is no longer
available commercially in the US, there are still ways to get it.

Geordi's diabetes, in many cats, diabetes can be controlled by diet
*alone* without the need for insulin. Is Geordi overweight? Obesity can
cause a *reversible* insulin resistance that usually resolves when the cat
is brought down (gradually) to his ideal weight.

One last note; glucose curves plotted in the vet's office are not as
accurate as curves plotted at home. Most cats are stressed by trips to the
vet - stress can send a cat's BG soaring to 400 mg/dl. Also the accuracy
of the GC depends on feeding the cat the *same* food, the *same* amount and
at the *same* times at home as during the test.

Most cats are reluctant to eat while at the vet - or they'll just nibble -
which sometimes results in force-feeding which only increases stress and the
possibility of developing an aversion to the food (the cat associates the
unpleasant experience of force feeding with the food). Feeding has a
*tremendous* affect on the GC.

Home GCs involve little more than checking his BG every 2 hours for just one
day. Here's a short video another poster produced that shows you how to do
it:

http://www.maxshouse.com/bgtest%5B1%5D.mpg

http://www.maxshouse.com/bgtest.rm

Home GCs are more accurate because the cat isn't stressed, he's eating is
normal food on his normal schedule on his own turf..

hth,

Phil



Thanks for all the info, Phil. I'd read all that you said about GC at
a vet .. and Geordi DOES get so stressed out at the vet.

Geordi is not over weight for a MC neuter boy .. 14.8 lbs at the vets
office this week. I'm sure that part of that 500 BG level was
stress, but I'm also sure that it diabetes that's been causing him to
drink/pee like mad.

I read a lot about home testing, and that's why I bought the One Touch
Ultra Monitoring Kit. I'm a bit anxious about doing an ear stick for
the droplet of blood, but I guess I'll learn.

I knew about Propulsid .. and my vet says they can still get it
(Mexico) but its expensive. I'll ask about your alternative.

Thanks again for all the info.

Bill

Darmok wrote:
I read a lot about home testing, and that's why I bought the One Touch
Ultra Monitoring Kit. I'm a bit anxious about doing an ear stick for
the droplet of blood, but I guess I'll learn.

My 13-year-old was diagnosed diabetic last January. The vet taught
me to inject him, but didn't think it was necessary to home test him,
and wanted me to inject him with 1 unit twice a day. I was relieved
to see, when the vet taught me, that he didn't notice he was being
injected.

Fortunately, I disagreed about the testing, and started testing him
the day after he got home (the vet kept him for 4 days).

After being switched to low-carb canned food (initially Science Diet
kitten food was recommended by the vet), he tested in normal range
without insulin. I tested him twice a day before feeding for three
weeks, and then dropped to spot checks a couple of times a month,
along with keeping an eye on the daily water dish levels and his
output in the litter box.

At first they thought it was a treat, but both cats started refusing
the Science Diet kitten food after a couple of weeks. I switched
to Iams kitten food, which they liked for a couple of weeks and then
refused. I then sought out a local Wellness dealer, and they've been
on the poultry and poultry-and-fish flavors of that ever since.
(I avoid beef flavors, because both cats have always barfed them
right up. But, I've never seen a cat take down a cow, anyway.)

The ear stick is more frightening to think about than to do. My cat
is a little annoyed with having his ear held and warmed before the
ear stick, but doesn't notice the prick at all. I've tested my
non-diabetic cat a few times (who, btw is a Maine coon), and he
doesn't notice it either.

You might want to smear a tiny dab of vaseline on the edge of his
ear, so that the blood beads up better above the fur. You'll want
to shine a small flashlight through his ear, to familiarize yourself
with where the vein along the edge is, so you'll know where to aim.

I use BD Ultra-Fine lancets, just held in my fingers, because it's
too hard to get close to the ear vein with any of the aiming devices.

I use a thin sock with about 3/4 cup of rice in the toe, knotted off,
and warmed about 10 seconds in the microwave as an ear warmer. I put
a clean tissue over it before I put it in the inside of his ear, and
hold his ear on it with my thumb (while scratching his favorite spots)
until it feels warm. The tissue is because sometimes you might go
all the way through the ear, which, quite frankly, is not a problem
compared to not pricking hard enough and having to stick him again.

For constipation, you might see if he likes canned pumpkin. My
diabetic cat loves it, but the other doesn't have much interest in
it. It has lots of fiber, but very low in carbs and calories.


Home Testing of Blood Glucose for Diabetic Cats
By Margie Scherk DVM, ABVP
(home testing movie, Windows Media or Realplayer)
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/con...&S=O&C=O&A=605

Harry's Home Testing Page - (good close-up photos)
http://www.sugarcats.net/sites/harry/bgtest.htm

Punkin's Home Testing Movie -
http://tlb.best.vwh.net/bg_punkin/test_bg.html


Feline Diabetes
http://www.felinediabetes.com/index.html

Pet Diabetes
http://www.petdiabetes.org/

Frugal Feline Diabetes site
http://www.sugarcats.net/sites/jmpeerson/frugal.html
protein/fat/carb counts of canned and dry foods.
http://www.sugarcats.net/sites/jmpeerson/canfood.html
http://www.sugarcats.net/sites/jmpeerson/dryfood.html

DVM the Newsmagazine of Veterinary Medicine
At Home Diabetes Management -
http://www.dvmnewsmagazine.com/dvm/a...l.jsp?id=13315

Blood Glucose Monitoring -
http://www.dvmnewsmagazine.com/dvm/a...il.jsp?id=5336

VSPN discussion on Home Testing -
http://www.vspn.org/Library/Rounds/VSPN_LC011209.htm

--
jamie )

"There's a seeker born every minute."

On 4 Dec 2004 21:59:55 GMT, (jamie) wrote:

Darmok wrote:
I read a lot about home testing, and that's why I bought the One Touch
Ultra Monitoring Kit. I'm a bit anxious about doing an ear stick for
the droplet of blood, but I guess I'll learn.

My 13-year-old was diagnosed diabetic last January. The vet taught
me to inject him, but didn't think it was necessary to home test him,
and wanted me to inject him with 1 unit twice a day. I was relieved
to see, when the vet taught me, that he didn't notice he was being
injected.

Fortunately, I disagreed about the testing, and started testing him
the day after he got home (the vet kept him for 4 days).

After being switched to low-carb canned food (initially Science Diet
kitten food was recommended by the vet), he tested in normal range
without insulin. I tested him twice a day before feeding for three
weeks, and then dropped to spot checks a couple of times a month,
along with keeping an eye on the daily water dish levels and his
output in the litter box.

At first they thought it was a treat, but both cats started refusing
the Science Diet kitten food after a couple of weeks. I switched
to Iams kitten food, which they liked for a couple of weeks and then
refused. I then sought out a local Wellness dealer, and they've been
on the poultry and poultry-and-fish flavors of that ever since.
(I avoid beef flavors, because both cats have always barfed them
right up. But, I've never seen a cat take down a cow, anyway.)

The ear stick is more frightening to think about than to do. My cat
is a little annoyed with having his ear held and warmed before the
ear stick, but doesn't notice the prick at all. I've tested my
non-diabetic cat a few times (who, btw is a Maine coon), and he
doesn't notice it either.

You might want to smear a tiny dab of vaseline on the edge of his
ear, so that the blood beads up better above the fur. You'll want
to shine a small flashlight through his ear, to familiarize yourself
with where the vein along the edge is, so you'll know where to aim.

I use BD Ultra-Fine lancets, just held in my fingers, because it's
too hard to get close to the ear vein with any of the aiming devices.

I use a thin sock with about 3/4 cup of rice in the toe, knotted off,
and warmed about 10 seconds in the microwave as an ear warmer. I put
a clean tissue over it before I put it in the inside of his ear, and
hold his ear on it with my thumb (while scratching his favorite spots)
until it feels warm. The tissue is because sometimes you might go
all the way through the ear, which, quite frankly, is not a problem
compared to not pricking hard enough and having to stick him again.

For constipation, you might see if he likes canned pumpkin. My
diabetic cat loves it, but the other doesn't have much interest in
it. It has lots of fiber, but very low in carbs and calories.


Home Testing of Blood Glucose for Diabetic Cats
By Margie Scherk DVM, ABVP
(home testing movie, Windows Media or Realplayer)
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/con...&S=O&C=O&A=605

Harry's Home Testing Page - (good close-up photos)
http://www.sugarcats.net/sites/harry/bgtest.htm

Punkin's Home Testing Movie -
http://tlb.best.vwh.net/bg_punkin/test_bg.html


Feline Diabetes
http://www.felinediabetes.com/index.html

Pet Diabetes
http://www.petdiabetes.org/

Frugal Feline Diabetes site
http://www.sugarcats.net/sites/jmpeerson/frugal.html
protein/fat/carb counts of canned and dry foods.
http://www.sugarcats.net/sites/jmpeerson/canfood.html
http://www.sugarcats.net/sites/jmpeerson/dryfood.html

DVM the Newsmagazine of Veterinary Medicine
At Home Diabetes Management -
http://www.dvmnewsmagazine.com/dvm/a...l.jsp?id=13315

Blood Glucose Monitoring -
http://www.dvmnewsmagazine.com/dvm/a...il.jsp?id=5336

VSPN discussion on Home Testing -
http://www.vspn.org/Library/Rounds/VSPN_LC011209.htm


Wow .. that's really a great post, with lots of good info. I'm going
to save the post to refer to it later.

The vet that did his curve on Friday said, because it was a weekend, I
should just do a "once a day" 3 unit dose. He wasn't optimistic about
home testing, saying that it would bother the cat too much. I looked
at Geordi's curve on 3 units of Humulin and he went from 400+ to a low
of about 250, and then started heading back up. This vet said that
he'd defer to my cat's regular doctor and that I should all him on
Monday (tomorrow) to see about going twice a day with 3 units. From
all I've read and heard about this now, and by observing his water
PU/PD, I decided to give him a 1 1/2 unit shot at night, 12 hours
after his 6am morning shot of 3 units.

My guys eat canned Friskies Turkey or Chicken prime fillets, which is
a pretty solid meat product. They also get a mix of Max Cat Senior
and Royal Canin Senior dry to feed on free choice. Neither boy is
really over weight. In fact, I wish Geordi's step-brother (Data)
would put on a pound (he's 12.8 lbs .. a little light for a Maine Coon
neuter boy .. even if he is 14 years old).

I plan to monitor him with a One Touch Ultra monitor starting this
week some time. I'll probably also do his brother, just to compare,
since they both have the same diet, it will give me something to go
on.

Thanks for all your tips about the ear stick ... still a bit
apprehensive about that, even though I've watched the video. Geordi
is an all Black Maine Coon, so locating a vein will be tough. He also
has very nice 'ear furnishings', as Maine Coons are prone to have. The
vaseline tip will probably be helpful.

I tried the canned pumpkin, recommended by his regular doctor. Geordi
wasn't crazy about it. Ever feed a toddler, and watch them spit out
what you just spooned into their mouth? Well, that's what it was like
with Geordi. I finally gave up on it, figuring it was making him
miserable, since I always had to clean him up after trying to get him
to eat the stuff. I'm going to continue with the Lactulose/Petromalt
for now, and ask my doc about the Zantac stuff.

Thanks again,

Bill