Dry Food Good For Teeth and Gum Health?

On 2005-07-10 10:37:41 -0700, "whitershadeofpale"
said:


After much deliberation, and contemplation, I think it's safe to say
that kibble is better for the teeth, and wet food is better for over
all long term health.

So, you take wet food, put it in a pastry bag, and make all sorts of
pretty little shapes, put them on a greased cookie sheet, bake at 350
for 275 for 47 mins. This makes crunchy little meals. (or NOT)

I think the REAL benefit of wet food is the water. Not that the quality
is better, of course it is not. There are as many vitamins in both!

Our vet said that the carbohydrate content was lower and the protein
content was higher in canned food. She said that there is some evidence
that the high carb levels in kibble are contributing to the incidence
of diabetes in older cats.

She recommended wet food, but acknowledged that a lot of cats won't eat
it and in those cases you have to go with what the cat will eat.

Our cats are fed a mixed diet. Valeria has a tender tummy and if her
bowl is empty for too long she wolfs her food and then barfs it all up
again. So we keep kibble around almost free choice and they get
gooshyfood around 9 at night. They either split a 5.5oz can or get two
3 ounce cans in the evening. The feral comes in and will eat some of
the food if it's fish in gravy, but won't touch any other variety.

My background is in nutrition (herbivores and human) so when I get a
free weekend I am going to start digging into the research and look at
the numbers and see what I can pull out of it.

I can say that since we started adding in gooshyfood, Amelia's dandruff
has gone away and she's trimmed down a little. I'm really happy with
the mix.

b (writing up network diagrams this weekend)

On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 12:13:18 -0500, "CatNipped"
wrote:


Science Diet has "Senior" formula in canned.

I'll have to check that one out. The "senior" foods I saw in the
grocery store were mostly about protein and fat levels. Nothing to do
with actual supplements for seniors.

Also, I found that the Royal Canin Maine Coon food adds 3 times the
amount of glucosamine than they give to the senior food - because
larger build cats have more problems with joints. So, if I gave up the
kibble, I would have to find some other way to get him the
glucosamine. I would have to get him to eat two tablets, and won't
touch them. Nor will he eat canned food yet anyway.

Maynard used to eat the tablets and then got tired of them and
refused. I could grind them up, but he ate such small portions of the
canned food that I could never tell how much he actually got. With the
kibble, I knew he got it.

Jay Jay is a very bouncy big boy, and I'd like to keep him that way.
His coat is nicer since the food change, and his stools are better
too. I haven't needed a gas mask to clean the litter box in a while
now (he still doesn't cover, but it doesn't knock you out now). And
his stools are solid, not soft or runny.

So, I have seen good changes since switching to this food, and I would
hate to lose that. I will still try to supplement with canned food.
Maybe I will find the right one someday. But I don't want to quit
feeding the kibble.




--
Meghan & the Zoo Crew
Equine and Pet Photography
http://www.zoocrewphoto.com

In ups.com,
whitershadeofpale stated unanimously:
Brad wrote:

I have/had respect for your obvious knowledge about cats but I
repeat myself in saying that some people skills wouldn't hurt
you......you still never comment about people who have had
great
success with dry food for years and years I suppose this is
just
happenstance and I have never met someone who is pro canned
food
who hasn't taken a shot at the dry food people for being lazy
or
doing what is easiest for us without thinking about the
cat.......attacks on peoples characters will do very little to
get
yourself credibility in most peoples eyes......to each his own
I
guess........

Brad

*pimp slaps Brad across the mouth again*

You fffffaggot! You just got done running your finger through
the
cake and now your over here humping the house DR for doing the
same.

low life ass wipe


You held the "DR" down so Brad could hump him. LOL

On 9 Jul 2005 12:16:05 -0700, "whitershadeofpale"
wrote:



Brad wrote:

I have/had respect for your obvious knowledge about cats but I repeat
myself in saying that some people skills wouldn't hurt you......you
still never comment about people who have had great success with dry
food for years and years I suppose this is just happenstance and I
have never met someone who is pro canned food who hasn't taken a shot
at the dry food people for being lazy or doing what is easiest for us
without thinking about the cat.......attacks on peoples characters
will do very little to get yourself credibility in most peoples
eyes......to each his own I guess........

Brad

*pimp slaps Brad across the mouth again*

You fffffaggot! You just got done running your finger through the cake
and now your over here humping the house DR for doing the same.

low life ass wipe


I hope you realize your childish posts mean nothing to me and if you
aren't careful I'm gonna get ahold of your mother and tell her your
using foul language on the internet......matter of fact I don't
killfile but I'm done reading your posts you have nothing to offer go
back to the last newsgroup you got ran out of......matter of fact you
barry and Fillup would make a nice group all by yourselves......

my last answer to you ever sonny boy.....or girly boy or whatever you
are....

Brad

Lifes journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved
body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out,
shouting......." HOLY @#$%... WHAT A RIDE!"

On Sat, 9 Jul 2005 20:25:51 -0400, "Phil P."
wrote:

to feed dry food simply because its easier and cheaper?





why do your posts sound the same every time I read them...??

Does anyone leave any room for the possibilities that the makers of
dry food have corrected problems they may have had in the past after
all there is a huge market out there and I am sure they want their
share of it. I just hope people like PhilP keeps an open mind in
changes to the dry food industry but it doesn't seem like most of the
experts will leave any possibility open. And by the way have these
articles used only top notch dry food like Science Diet or Iams among
others in their tests or some cheap dry food since all the experts
think us dry food feeders are all lazy, penny pinching, lowlifes PhilP
mentions something to that effect in nearly every single post he
makes.

Maybe if used "Evian" bottled water he would feel differently. As I
said I have no quarrel with anyone who has a different opinion than I
do, my choice is made from real life friends or acquaintences who
haven't had problems not even one that makes it hard for me to accept
that dry is so very bad.

Thanks for the article Lauren? I think it was you I filed it away and
will read it.

Brad

Lifes journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved
body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out,
shouting......." HOLY @#$%... WHAT A RIDE!"

"CatNipped" wrote in message
...

- but the only canned food they'll eat is Fancy Feast
"Tender Beef Feast" (two cans in the AM and two cans in the PM, so one can
a
day per cat).

Tender Beef Feast contains too much phosphorus (and protein) for a renal
cat. If Bandit only likes beef flavor, Try Fancy Feast Grilled Beef- its
much lower in phosphorus (0.88% DMB), or better still, Fancy Feast Minced
Beef (0.75% phos. DMB).

Have you tried Pet Guard Rabbit or Venison? Both diets are very low in
phosphorus (0.21%, 0.20% DMB). Wysong Gourmet Chicken and Gourmet Liver are
also low in phosphorus (0.60% DMB)- if Bandit will eat them.

snip


Bandit's labs haven't changed with the addition of the canned
food -

snip


The BUN will be high because Fancy Feast is *very* high in protein- almost
60% on a dry matter basis. Creatinine is less affected by diet. Minced
Beef is a little lower in protein (54%), but its still a little too high for
a renal cat.

For renal cats, I've had the best luck with Hill's Prescription x/d. Its
low in phosphorus (0.53% DMB) and moderate in protein (43% DMB). But most
importantly, its not an acidified diet. X/d is more palatable than k/d and
g/d- which I think are a little too low in protein. I've seen dramatic
turnarounds in renal cats after switching to x/d from k/d.

Good luck,

Phil

"Philip" wrote in message

You held the "DR" down so Brad could hump him. LOL

Think a lot about humping, eh, EC? All you can do is just think about it!
LOL!

"Brad" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 9 Jul 2005 20:25:51 -0400, "Phil P."
wrote:

to feed dry food simply because its easier and cheaper?





why do your posts sound the same every time I read them...??


Probably because you don't seem to learn or understand.

"Brad" wrote in message
...
Does anyone leave any room for the possibilities that the makers of
dry food have corrected problems they may have had in the past


They sure did correct previous problems. To reduce the incidence of
struvite crystals, dry food mfgers reduced magnesium and added more
acidifiers. Since then, the incidence of struvite has dropped but the
incidence of calcium oxalate increased more than *10 times* from about 2%
to almost 50%! Reduced magnesium and increased acidity promote calcium
oxalate. Calcium oxalate is even more dangerous than struvite because it
can't be medically dissolved and often requires surgical removal. So by
correcting one problem, they created a new, more serious problem.

Here's another fact-that will probably go right over your head- but others
may benefit from it. Dry food is less digestible than an equal quality
canned food. Therefore, the cat must eat more food to meet her energy
requirements (that's why dry food is sold big bags and canned food is sold
in little cans). By eating more food the cat consumes more magnesium (and
phosphorus) even though the magnesium content of dry and canned food are
about the same on a dry matter basis.

The lower digestibility of dry food also produces more feces. The more
feces produced, the more water is retained in the intestinal tract and
excreted in the feces. The more water excreted in the feces the less water
is excreted in the urine- which reduces urine volume. The lower the urine
volume the higher the concentration of solutes in the urine that can form
into crystals and uroliths or plugs. A lower urine volume also results in
less frequent urination and the more time that solutes remain in the urinary
tract. The longer solutes remain in the urinary tract the greater the
chance they will aggregate or accrete into larger and larger particles that
eventually become calculi. The longer that crystalline particles are
retained in the urinary tract, the larger they can grow and will cause
irritation and inflammation of the bladder wall and urethra, or potentially
fatal urethral obstructions in male cats.



after
all there is a huge market out there and I am sure they want their
share of it. I just hope people like PhilP keeps an open mind in
changes to the dry food industry but it doesn't seem like most of the
experts will leave any possibility open.


I'll give you a little history lesson. Originally, I began my research into
dry/canned food to *defend* dry food against people like *me*. My
preference for canned food is the result of *years* of research and
experience and not a whim or the opinion of others who know less about
feline nutrition than I.



And by the way have these
articles used only top notch dry food like Science Diet or Iams among
others in their tests or some cheap dry food


Clinical studies aren't usually conducted with cheap, grocery brands.


since all the experts
think us dry food feeders are all lazy, penny pinching, lowlifes PhilP
mentions something to that effect in nearly every single post he
makes.


Well, Brad, you did say you spray your dirty clothes with Febreeze instead
of washing them to cut down on water and electricity.