Gaubster's Outlandish Claims (was: "Science Diet" Hairball Control Sensitivity )

Justin Case wrote in message ...
-L. wrote:

text deleted for brevity & bandwidth preservation

Perhaps you could elaborate on why you think Science Diet is bad food?


I didn't say it was a "bad food". In fact it probably is better than
quite a few others. What I said is that it "sucks". See my follow-up
to Phil for reasoning. Better yet, do a Google search for "Science
Diet" and "sucks" or "hate" and you will see other testimonials. We
fed it exclusively at the feline specialty hospital where I worked.
The cats wouldn't eat it, it stunk, some choked on it, and we threw
most of it away. It created really stinky poop in the cats that did
eat it. In fact, working for the vet is where I developed my real
dislike for the food. Long ago I had tried it on my own cats, they
quickly refused it, and that was that. I just thought they were
picky. My experience at the hospital proved to me that the food is
crap, not to mention enlightened me to their slimy marketing
techniques. We'd push the food (vets orders) and a few days to weeks
later, people would return it saying their cats hated it. After a
while, I just started wondering why he continued to carry it. But a
lot of what he did was questionable...

I can't speak about Hill's dog foods, other than it gave my dogs
diarrhea which wouldn't resolve, as did most brands of dog food.

-L.

Justin Case wrote in message ...
-L. wrote:

text deleted for brevity & bandwidth preservation

Perhaps you could elaborate on why you think Science Diet is bad food?


I didn't say it was a "bad food". In fact it probably is better than
quite a few others. What I said is that it "sucks". See my follow-up
to Phil for reasoning. Better yet, do a Google search for "Science
Diet" and "sucks" or "hate" and you will see other testimonials. We
fed it exclusively at the feline specialty hospital where I worked.
The cats wouldn't eat it, it stunk, some choked on it, and we threw
most of it away. It created really stinky poop in the cats that did
eat it. In fact, working for the vet is where I developed my real
dislike for the food. Long ago I had tried it on my own cats, they
quickly refused it, and that was that. I just thought they were
picky. My experience at the hospital proved to me that the food is
crap, not to mention enlightened me to their slimy marketing
techniques. We'd push the food (vets orders) and a few days to weeks
later, people would return it saying their cats hated it. After a
while, I just started wondering why he continued to carry it. But a
lot of what he did was questionable...

I can't speak about Hill's dog foods, other than it gave my dogs
diarrhea which wouldn't resolve, as did most brands of dog food.

-L.

From: (-L.)

"Phil P." wrote in message
...
"-L." wrote in message
m...
. In fact, my cats have been fed Nutro ever since it
first
came on the market.

You must have very old cats! Nutro came on the market 70 years ago.

Well, of course I meant came on the market where I lived.


Years ago Nutro was indeed an excellent food, if not one of the best. And
that's what their current reputation is based on. Nutro's current line is
a
very far cry from their original diets.

I fed Nutro to my cats and dogs for years and I was also a very strong
Nutro
proponent until.....

1. I noticed a subtle but steady increase in the calcium and phosphorus
levels in their proximate analyses -- which is an indication of poorer
quality ingredients, i.e., lesser amounts of meat and more bone (- the
"spare rib" effect as opposed to the "prime rib" effect).

Never had an adverse effect on my cats bood analyses. My cats are 12
and 13, and have been fed Nutro since about 1993 (IIRC).


2. Nutro stopped using feeding trials to assure the nutritional adequacy
and digestibility of their diets. They now use a generic formula of a
"similar" diet with the nutritional "similarity" of a diet that was used in
feeding protocols - that may or may not contain the same nutrients or
nutrient levels - nor does each diet need to be analyzed. Chemical
analysis
of a diet cost about $2K/diet whereas a feeding trial can cost $10K/diet.
Even Friskies uses feeding trials...

I don't have a problem with companies doing LESS animal
experimentation, especially when a food product has been on the market
for awhile.


Wait until 1/1/2005 - I'd like to see what Nutro does when the "Pet Food
Product Families" regulation goes into effect!

3. Nutro went off "fixed formula" and onto "least cost formulation" to
compound their diets. That means that the amounts and quality of the
ingredients and nutrient levels can fluctuate with the market prices of the
raw materials. So the final formula at any given time for any batch of
diets may or may not be the same formula as the one actually tested.

Guaranteed analysis is the same. I don't see a problem with this. I
don't care if my protein comes from beef, chicken, or whatever. If
the bag is pulled, it has to meet the guarateed analysis.

IOW,
the final formula is a crap-shoot. Btw, Hill's uses fixed formula
formulation to compound their diets...

4. Soon after the last significant increase in Ca & P and the switch to
least cost formulation, Nutro stopped publishing the proximate analyses of
all their diets on their website - which they've done for years as a
"testament" of the "superiority" of their diets...


The food you choose to feed your cats is your business and no one else's.
You have the right to choose whatever food you like and I respect your
right
to choose. I just thought it was comical to see a Nutro feeder
criticizing
Hill's.

Well, I hate Hills for a number of reasons. They push their food to
vets with incentives and freebies, most cats I know won't eat it, the
kibble is small and cats choke on it (this was a problem at the vet,
as well as with my own cats), it gives cats stinky poop, and it
stinks, among others. I don't know how many people I know have
thrown away money on ths stuff because their vets pushed it and their
cats wouldn't eat it.

I have never said Nutro was "the best" food, only that the OP asked
for an alternative to Hills *WHICH WASN'T WORKING FOR HER* (ahem), and
I suggested Nutro. It's worked for me for a number of years, my cats
will eat it religiously (it's the only brand they WILL continue to eat
without turining off of it), and they do really well on it.

I mean no offense, I just think its funny. Kinda like drinking bar
brandy and criticizing Remy Martin or Courvoisier.

Yeah, whatever. Really funny.

-L.

I have a suspicion that the shelter Phil P works at gets free Hills foods,
hence his abrubt about face regarding foods. My cats also did very poorly on
Science Diet (I'm sure Phil will say that I'm just saying that, but it's true.
Their coats were dry and their poops were really stinky and voluminous). If I
had the choice between Science Diet and Nutro, I would definitely choose Nutro.

Lauren
________
See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm

From: (-L.)

"Phil P." wrote in message
...
"-L." wrote in message
m...
. In fact, my cats have been fed Nutro ever since it
first
came on the market.

You must have very old cats! Nutro came on the market 70 years ago.

Well, of course I meant came on the market where I lived.


Years ago Nutro was indeed an excellent food, if not one of the best. And
that's what their current reputation is based on. Nutro's current line is
a
very far cry from their original diets.

I fed Nutro to my cats and dogs for years and I was also a very strong
Nutro
proponent until.....

1. I noticed a subtle but steady increase in the calcium and phosphorus
levels in their proximate analyses -- which is an indication of poorer
quality ingredients, i.e., lesser amounts of meat and more bone (- the
"spare rib" effect as opposed to the "prime rib" effect).

Never had an adverse effect on my cats bood analyses. My cats are 12
and 13, and have been fed Nutro since about 1993 (IIRC).


2. Nutro stopped using feeding trials to assure the nutritional adequacy
and digestibility of their diets. They now use a generic formula of a
"similar" diet with the nutritional "similarity" of a diet that was used in
feeding protocols - that may or may not contain the same nutrients or
nutrient levels - nor does each diet need to be analyzed. Chemical
analysis
of a diet cost about $2K/diet whereas a feeding trial can cost $10K/diet.
Even Friskies uses feeding trials...

I don't have a problem with companies doing LESS animal
experimentation, especially when a food product has been on the market
for awhile.


Wait until 1/1/2005 - I'd like to see what Nutro does when the "Pet Food
Product Families" regulation goes into effect!

3. Nutro went off "fixed formula" and onto "least cost formulation" to
compound their diets. That means that the amounts and quality of the
ingredients and nutrient levels can fluctuate with the market prices of the
raw materials. So the final formula at any given time for any batch of
diets may or may not be the same formula as the one actually tested.

Guaranteed analysis is the same. I don't see a problem with this. I
don't care if my protein comes from beef, chicken, or whatever. If
the bag is pulled, it has to meet the guarateed analysis.

IOW,
the final formula is a crap-shoot. Btw, Hill's uses fixed formula
formulation to compound their diets...

4. Soon after the last significant increase in Ca & P and the switch to
least cost formulation, Nutro stopped publishing the proximate analyses of
all their diets on their website - which they've done for years as a
"testament" of the "superiority" of their diets...


The food you choose to feed your cats is your business and no one else's.
You have the right to choose whatever food you like and I respect your
right
to choose. I just thought it was comical to see a Nutro feeder
criticizing
Hill's.

Well, I hate Hills for a number of reasons. They push their food to
vets with incentives and freebies, most cats I know won't eat it, the
kibble is small and cats choke on it (this was a problem at the vet,
as well as with my own cats), it gives cats stinky poop, and it
stinks, among others. I don't know how many people I know have
thrown away money on ths stuff because their vets pushed it and their
cats wouldn't eat it.

I have never said Nutro was "the best" food, only that the OP asked
for an alternative to Hills *WHICH WASN'T WORKING FOR HER* (ahem), and
I suggested Nutro. It's worked for me for a number of years, my cats
will eat it religiously (it's the only brand they WILL continue to eat
without turining off of it), and they do really well on it.

I mean no offense, I just think its funny. Kinda like drinking bar
brandy and criticizing Remy Martin or Courvoisier.

Yeah, whatever. Really funny.

-L.

I have a suspicion that the shelter Phil P works at gets free Hills foods,
hence his abrubt about face regarding foods. My cats also did very poorly on
Science Diet (I'm sure Phil will say that I'm just saying that, but it's true.
Their coats were dry and their poops were really stinky and voluminous). If I
had the choice between Science Diet and Nutro, I would definitely choose Nutro.

Lauren
________
See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm

I didn't say it was a "bad food". In fact it probably is better than
quite a few others. What I said is that it "sucks". See my follow-up
to Phil for reasoning.

that's the problem. I don't see any logic or reasoning in what you just said.

My experience at the hospital proved to me that the food is
crap, not to mention enlightened me to their slimy marketing
techniques.

What "slimy marketing techniques" are you talking about? You feed Nutro,
right? Perhaps you should work with or hang around some Nutro reps and you'd
find out what "slimy" is all about. Oh, by the way....how many vets feed Nutro
to their own pets?? Hmm?

I didn't say it was a "bad food". In fact it probably is better than
quite a few others. What I said is that it "sucks". See my follow-up
to Phil for reasoning.

that's the problem. I don't see any logic or reasoning in what you just said.

My experience at the hospital proved to me that the food is
crap, not to mention enlightened me to their slimy marketing
techniques.

What "slimy marketing techniques" are you talking about? You feed Nutro,
right? Perhaps you should work with or hang around some Nutro reps and you'd
find out what "slimy" is all about. Oh, by the way....how many vets feed Nutro
to their own pets?? Hmm?

The food you choose to feed your cats is your business and no one else's.
You have the right to choose whatever food you like and I respect your right
to choose. I just thought it was comical to see a Nutro feeder criticizing
Hill's.

I agree w/ Phil. (just for the record)

The food you choose to feed your cats is your business and no one else's.
You have the right to choose whatever food you like and I respect your right
to choose. I just thought it was comical to see a Nutro feeder criticizing
Hill's.

I agree w/ Phil. (just for the record)

From: (-L.)

3. Nutro went off "fixed formula" and onto "least cost formulation" to
compound their diets. That means that the amounts and quality of the
ingredients and nutrient levels can fluctuate with the market prices of the
raw materials. So the final formula at any given time for any batch of
diets may or may not be the same formula as the one actually tested.

Guaranteed analysis is the same. I don't see a problem with this. I
don't care if my protein comes from beef, chicken, or whatever. If
the bag is pulled, it has to meet the guarateed analysis.


Ingredient labels (and the guaranteed analysis) won't change unless the switch
is for longer than 6 months. In the meantime, who knows what the guaranteed
analysis of any given bag's content would be?

IOW,
the final formula is a crap-shoot. Btw, Hill's uses fixed formula
formulation to compound their diets...

Well, I hate Hills for a number of reasons.

....there you go. A Hill's basher come clean!

From: (-L.)

3. Nutro went off "fixed formula" and onto "least cost formulation" to
compound their diets. That means that the amounts and quality of the
ingredients and nutrient levels can fluctuate with the market prices of the
raw materials. So the final formula at any given time for any batch of
diets may or may not be the same formula as the one actually tested.

Guaranteed analysis is the same. I don't see a problem with this. I
don't care if my protein comes from beef, chicken, or whatever. If
the bag is pulled, it has to meet the guarateed analysis.


Ingredient labels (and the guaranteed analysis) won't change unless the switch
is for longer than 6 months. In the meantime, who knows what the guaranteed
analysis of any given bag's content would be?

IOW,
the final formula is a crap-shoot. Btw, Hill's uses fixed formula
formulation to compound their diets...

Well, I hate Hills for a number of reasons.

....there you go. A Hill's basher come clean!