Upside down packaging tape, no more chewing on electrical cords

If you believe that you can stick your hand into an operational
table saw blade without getting cut, you are extremely naïve.

I regularly post questions to electronics groups here on USENET.
I'll be happy to further discuss the issue in any such electronics
group.

Fifteen amps is more than enough to burn a hole through your cat's
mouth. And yet it does not exceed a typical outlet's current
sourcing ability. And that current can be sourced indefinitely.
Just like running a 15 amp vacuum cleaner.

When you cut through a wire that's plugged into the wall, the
current is going from one wire to the other. And it goes BOOM! And
part of your tool is gone. That's because a certain amount of time
is required to trip a circuit breaker. In that extremely short
time time, hundreds (a rough estimate) of amps flow from one wire
to the other.

Again... I'm not talking about current going someplace else. I'm
talking about current flowing through your cat's mouth as if it's
an electrical circuit, or as if you have accidentally cut through
a wire with a conductive device.

If you don't believe me, again, do it yourself. Remove the cord
from some electrical device. Make sure that the wires are not
touching each other at the severed end. Plug the wire into the
wall. Put on some rubber gloves or find some other way to insulate
yourself. Cut the wire with diagonal cutting pliers. It will freak
you out, guaranteed. And be sure your circuit breakers are working
properly before you do so. And be sure to make the video...



--
"Bill Graham" weg9 comcast.net wrote:

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John Doe wrote:
Anybody who knows anything about electricity would know what I am
talking about. I'm talking about current flowing from one wire to
the other through your cat's mouth. It has nothing to do with
current flowing through your cat to a tub of water or whatever.
There is no abnormal current flow, your cat's mouth acts like a
circuit. I don't need to ask an electrician, I know plenty about
electricity and electronics. Besides, I've experienced the thing.

Again... All you have to do is test your theory. And please record
the video...


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John Doe wrote:
Circuit breakers have been used for ages (here in the United
States). They are used on every circuit in a house. Problem is,
in order to detect a short circuit, current must be extremely high
(at least over the outlet's rated current).

If you think it's not going to hurt your cats, test your theory by
cutting through a wire that's plugged into the wall. Be sure to
make a video. In case it kills you, leave a note for somebody else
to upload the video. What you will probably experience is a "BOOM"
followed by the circuit breaker tripping. And you will notice a
piece of your diagonal cutting pliers is missing.

It would be like setting off a firecracker in your cat's mouth.

You either didn't read my post, or don't understand it. I am talking
about a
special kind of circuit breaker, called, "Ground Fault Interrupter"
Circuit
breakers. These detect very small amounts of current leaking to
ground, and
pull the breaker immediately when they do. Current drawn between one
side of
the line and the other doesn't count. Its current drawn to the
ground on
grounded devices that trips the breaker when it is less than 10
milliaMPS.
they use them maiunly in baths and kitchens where there is water,
but there
is no reason why they can't be usede anywhere in the house, as long
as there
exists a ground to draw the current. Most electrical cords arent
shielded,
so the GFI wouldn;t work. But you casn get shielded cords for
anything, and
as long ss the shield is grounded at the Circuit Breaker end, it
will trip
the breaker as soon as 10 milliamps of ground current is detected.
When a
cat chews through the shield and hits a live wire, the ground current
through the shield will trip the breaker. Ask an elecftrician about
them....
He wiull be able to install them anywhere in your home that you
please.

GFI's have been around for many years. They automatically pull the breaker
before any high current gets into your cat's mouth. If you, "know all about
electricity" then you should know about GFI's. I sent you a link. If you
donl;t want to read it or learn anything, that's your business. I have
completed my obligation. You can lead someone to knowlkege, but you can't
make him learn...

On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 03:03:07 +0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

If you believe that you can stick your hand into an operational
table saw blade without getting cut, you are extremely naïve.


FWIW, I've seen video demonstrations several times over the past few
years, though to be fair the tests are conducted with raw hot dogs and
not human fingers. Don't ask me to explain the electronics of it.

Full of **** up to its eyebrows...

--
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On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 03:03:07 +0000 (UTC), John Doe
jdoe usenetlove.invalid wrote:

If you believe that you can stick your hand into an operational
table saw blade without getting cut, you are extremely na‹ve.


FWIW, I've seen video demonstrations several times over the past few
years, though to be fair the tests are conducted with raw hot dogs and
not human fingers. Don't ask me to explain the electronics of it.

On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 03:58:06 +0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

Full of **** up to its eyebrows...

See for yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ltFuEKCnM4

Firstly... This has absolutely nothing to do with the subject of
kittens chewing on electrical cords.

Secondly... Nobody in any video on YouTube intentionally sticks
their hand into a saw blade. That's so ridiculous, it's funny.
Even if the claim of stopping the blade in 1/8 second is true,
those blades spin at 10 revolutions per 1/10 second. That means
you get cut over 600 times using a 60-tooth blade.

The saw stop thing should be taken to a group like
(alt.home.repair) or (rec.woodworking). Currently I'm in both of
those groups. Tell them about sticking your hand into a saw
blade...



--
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On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 03:58:06 +0000 (UTC), John Doe
jdoe usenetlove.invalid wrote:

Full of **** up to its eyebrows...

See for yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ltFuEKCnM4

On 9/9/2013 1:16 AM, Bill Graham wrote:
John Doe wrote:
My first critical application of upside down packaging tape was to
keep my cat off of the windowsill in a cat-hostile apartment complex.
Now that I'm temporarily fostering three kittens... They start
chewing on a group of electrical cords in a very small area on the
floor. Put two pieces of 4 inch long packaging tape among the
electrical cords. Reapplied as necessary. I just love it when they
start whining about having the tape stuck to them, and I get to come
to their rescue It's like cat correction heaven. One half hour to
one hour later, no more chewing on the electrical cords. BOOM.

If you've ever seen what household current can do to tool-steel in an
instant (like when you accidentally cut through it), you will freak
out at the thought of your cats accidentally chewing through an
electrical cord. It just can't happen.

It helps to put ground fault protectors on all your circuits. that way,
as soon as some groung current is drawn, the breaker trips and the cat
probably won't feel a thing. This is especially true if your electricasl
wires are swhielded by grounded woven steel cables, The cats will have
to chew through those first, and then as soon as it bites into the hot
wire, the ground current will trip the breaker off and it won't come
back on until/unless you reset it. Most new houses have these in the
bathrooms and kitchens, but there is no reason why you couldn't put them
throughout your house. They are great for young pets and children who
are likely to mess with the wiring.

I don't like to get involved in a private fight but when the stakes are
life and death, I'll say something. Bill, first you need the short for
the GFI to trip and when the short's through the mouth, the damage has
already been done.

LNC

wrote:
On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 03:03:07 +0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

If you believe that you can stick your hand into an operational
table saw blade without getting cut, you are extremely naïve.


FWIW, I've seen video demonstrations several times over the past few
years, though to be fair the tests are conducted with raw hot dogs and
not human fingers. Don't ask me to explain the electronics of it.

Thee are two things that must be done. Remove the power from the saw blade
motor, and swtop the blade. Removing the power is easy. The Ground Fault
Interrupter circuitry does that. (In spite of what John Doe says) Stopping
the blade is something else. They do that with a brake that pulls a stopping
link into a toothed wheel that moves weith the say, or into the saw blade
itself. In either case, the result is usually to damage the blade beyone
repair, so when the device doesw its job, you have to replace all that
stuff. (the saw blade and other stuff that you have to use to stop it.) But
all that is still better than losing your fingers. I saw a demo of this on a
you tube clip a while back. I'll see if I can find it. In any case,
stoppoing the saw from hurting someone is harder than just stopping the
current into a cat's or chilkds mouth. These GFI's can do that handily. But
they work on ground current and not the main current that drives the device,
so there must be a ground circuit for them to sense the current in, or they
won't work.

John Doe wrote:
Full of **** up to its eyebrows...


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On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 03:03:07 +0000 (UTC), John Doe
jdoe usenetlove.invalid wrote:

If you believe that you can stick your hand into an operational
table saw blade without getting cut, you are extremely na‹ve.


FWIW, I've seen video demonstrations several times over the past few
years, though to be fair the tests are conducted with raw hot dogs
and
not human fingers. Don't ask me to explain the electronics of it.

The saw blade is isolated from ground. The operator is not. When the
operator touches the saw blade some ground current is drawn. Even if a very
small amount of this current is detected, it is amplified and used to open
the breaker to the saw, and energise the device that stops the blade. This
happens so fast that the blade is stopped in less than 1/10 of a tooth
distance, so the operator's fingers aren't harmed.

But the main point of this discuwsion concerned opening the breaker so fast
thqt the cat (or chilod) isn't harmed. this part is easy compared with
mechanically stopping the saw blade. These GFI's really work well, and are
very useful. The breaker opens so fast that you don't even feel any slight
shock.

wrote:
On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 03:58:06 +0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

Full of **** up to its eyebrows...

See for yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ltFuEKCnM4

Yes. This is an updated version of the device I saw. This one didn;t
actually require that the operator touch the saw blade. the one I saw
required actual contact with the blade, whqch necessitates stopping the
blade in les than one tooth's travel in order to not damage the skin. And
this meqns that there was some damage done to the blace by the stopping
mechanism. The capacitive sensing mechqnism that is apparently used in the
newer cevices is a much improved stopping system, since actual cointact with
the blade iswn;t required, and that gives the mechanism a little more time
to stop the blade so it isn't damaged by the brake. You can think of it kind
of like your iPad. You donl;t actually have to touch your iPad in order for
it to sense your fingers presende. Just being very close works, because it
senses the capacitance of your hand. Well, then you can use this to do
anything you want, including pulling a breaker before your cat actually
contacts the wire.

John Doe wrote:
Firstly... This has absolutely nothing to do with the subject of
kittens chewing on electrical cords.

Secondly... Nobody in any video on YouTube intentionally sticks
their hand into a saw blade. That's so ridiculous, it's funny.
Even if the claim of stopping the blade in 1/8 second is true,
those blades spin at 10 revolutions per 1/10 second. That means
you get cut over 600 times using a 60-tooth blade.

The saw stop thing should be taken to a group like
(alt.home.repair) or (rec.woodworking). Currently I'm in both of
those groups. Tell them about sticking your hand into a saw
blade...




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On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 03:58:06 +0000 (UTC), John Doe
jdoe usenetlove.invalid wrote:

Full of **** up to its eyebrows...

See for yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ltFuEKCnM4

Hey! It was just a suggestion to keep your cats from getting their mouths
blown apart. If you don't want to take it, then don't, but don't blame me
for suggesting it. (and don't say that you didn't learn anything by reading
my posts, either)