Candidate Friedman vows declawing ban

"Cathy Friedmann" wrote in message
...

"Slimpickins" wrote in message
...
**JMHO, But what is reeeally dangerous is when the balance in ones own
personal beliefs becomes too far left, or too far right. Unfortunately,
this
skewed thinking is becoming more common, especially with those
individuals
who are mentally unbalanced to begin with.

I am a Christian and try to not to judge others and It's not easy. But
if
a
mother/father want to enroll their child in a private or public school,
then
that is their business and their right. I wouldn't protest their
decision
and I wouldn't hurled abusive language at them because they don't dance
my*
dance. Demanding for them to do so because *I* believe it is the right
thing to do, is wrong. What the world need now is.. more living life by
quiet example.

ML


I am not understanding how this follows, the thread. I haven't
noticed
anyone saying that a person doesn't have the right to choose between
public
or private education. The disagreement is over group prayer being
conducted
in public schools.

Cathy


*** Well, I don't know where everyone else lives, but it's -(praying during
or before class) is not allowed at the mainstream public schools where I
live. Unless, one has their kid enrolled in a 'religious' private school.
It's gotten so 'PC' to be against Christianity that if a teacher had a cross
displayed on her classroom wall then it would cause quite a commotion. How
things change!

I remember well at my old private school before each class we would cross
our hands over our heart and say the pledge of allegence (to the flag)...
"One nation under *God*, with liberty and justice for all". Gee, now days
you could be cited and penalized for such 'discriminatory' talk. What
hogwash, IMO. The ACLU would have a field day, I'm sure.

Honestly, I believe young, under-developed minds, need to be more pointed,
focused and reverent on how blessed we are in this country. How truth,
justice and having a *higher power* known as God, are important, pure and
necessary for living a successful life.


ML- ( getting off her podum now :-)






"gaubster2" wrote in message
oups.com...

Cathy Friedmann wrote:

"gaubster2" wrote in message
ps.com...
WHY does there "need" to be a separation of church and state,
again?
That is found nowhere in the Constitution and in fact, the 1st
Amendment to that document guarantees all of us the Freedom OF
Religion, not the freedom FROM religion. There is nothing wrong
with
prayer in schools, it doesn't cause anybody bodily harm.

What? You have to physically harm a person in order for any harm to
be
done??

What kind of harm are you referencing? Property rights?



I have no
problem with a moment of silence in public school so the kids can
silently
pray, meditate, collect their thoughts, or do nothing. I have a
BIG
problem
with an out-loud prayer or the teacher saying "let's pray".

Yep & yep.

Cathy

Yeah, because that is SOOOOOOOO dangerous! Not.

I definately think they should have sex education in schools and also have
the parent's teach their kids as well. The problem in this country is that a
lot of parent's seem to want to avoid the topic and their kids end up having
sex without the education they need to make the right choices. As a result
of the parent's lack of attention to the matter we have plenty of teenage
pregnancy's and of course the chance of getting a sexually transmitted
disease.

As for your claiming nobody is trying to force religion on kids in school,
it seems that by your posts that you feel their needs to be prayer in school
which of course leads to that. Of course Gaubster nobody can really tell you
that without getting picked on.

--
Cat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time!
www.catgalaxymedia.com

Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of Your Computer Needs!
www.panthertekit.com

"gaubster2" wrote in message
oups.com...
So, do you think sex education belongs in school? I don't. That
falls under the parameters of the home environment. And don't give me
this nonsense about some parents won't talk about this w/ their kids.
I can make the same argument about religion in school. Condoms on
cucumbers and bananas DO NOT belong in school.

Nobody is saying FORCE religion on kids in school. I agree that you
should send your children to a religious school if that is what is
important. However, what is happening is that the government school
system is bending over backwards to take ALL mention of GOD of religion
(except Islam) OUT of school. There is a healthy balance that can be
struck, but that is NOT what is currently happening. How about the
Cupertino school district that doesn't want the Declaration of
Independence taught because it mentions a Creator??

Slimpickins wrote:

*** Well, I don't know where everyone else lives, but it's -(praying during
or before class) is not allowed at the mainstream public schools where I
live. Unless, one has their kid enrolled in a 'religious' private school.
It's gotten so 'PC' to be against Christianity that if a teacher had a cross
displayed on her classroom wall then it would cause quite a commotion. How
things change!

Yeah. Things do change. And IMO for the better. If a teacher wants to
express his or her devotion to a given religion, he or she should get a
job in a private school. By having a cross on the wall in a classroom,
IMO there is an implication that it is representative OF the classroom
not specifically the teacher. As a Jew, it wouldn't even OCCUR to me to
put up a star of david in my room. However, if I wanted to wear one
around my neck...more power to me, right? Then at least, the symbol is
directly connected to ME and not making the implication that all the
students in that room are of that particular faith. I think the reason
that Christians are feeling the heat now is because for SO long they
really HAVE tried to make the world a Christian only place and now that
people have said enough is enough...it is suddenly considered "against
Christianity" when that isn't really the case. I said this last night
and I'll say it again. I have much LESS of a problem with the Christian
religion itself than I have with those who purport to be devout
followers. Generalization? Yes. But hopefully you get my drift.

I remember well at my old private school before each class we would cross
our hands over our heart and say the pledge of allegence (to the flag)...
"One nation under *God*, with liberty and justice for all". Gee, now days
you could be cited and penalized for such 'discriminatory' talk. What
hogwash, IMO. The ACLU would have a field day, I'm sure.

Slim, we say the pledge at my public school every single day...one
nation under GOD, blah blah blah. At any rate, what you are describing
above is perfectly lovely...especially as you say it was at your old
PRIVATE school. This is an honest question...what would you prefer of
the following options the pledge of allegiance in school:

1. eliminate it all together

2. allow those kids who dont believe in the judeo-christian notion of
god to say something like "one nation, under allah" or "one nation,
under buddha" but continue on.




Honestly, I believe young, under-developed minds, need to be more pointed,
focused and reverent on how blessed we are in this country. How truth,
justice and having a *higher power* known as God, are important, pure and
necessary for living a successful life.

All that you say has merit..except demanding that the higher power be
known as "god". I also believe we can teach the young, under-developed
minds to be more pointed, focused and reverent of how blessed we are in
this WORLD (forget about the USA..it really isnt ALL about us!) and how
truth, justice and having a "higher power"...whatever that is...are
important, pure and necessary for living a sucessful life.

In addition to that, how do you explain the many atheists and agnostics
even, who live their life happily AND successfully without the notion of
a god or of ANY higher power.

I realize this is a cat group and we are way OT, but this conversation
fascinates me as a public school teacher.

Pam

"Slimpickins" wrote in message
...


*** Well, I don't know where everyone else lives, but it's -(praying
during
or before class) is not allowed at the mainstream public schools where I
live. Unless, one has their kid enrolled in a 'religious' private school.
It's gotten so 'PC' to be against Christianity that if a teacher had a
cross
displayed on her classroom wall then it would cause quite a commotion.
How
things change!


Unless that cross was in a display of other religious symbols for a
"Religions of the World" unit, then it has no business being there.

I remember well at my old private school before each class we would cross
our hands over our heart and say the pledge of allegence (to the flag)...
"One nation under *God*, with liberty and justice for all". Gee, now days
you could be cited and penalized for such 'discriminatory' talk. What
hogwash, IMO. The ACLU would have a field day, I'm sure.


Unfortunately, "under God" is still in the Pledge. It was only added in the
1950's, you know. I wish it would be taken out. I don't feel like this
nation should be "under God" unless the gov't is a theocracy.

Honestly, I believe young, under-developed minds, need to be more pointed,
focused and reverent on how blessed we are in this country. How truth,
justice and having a *higher power* known as God, are important, pure and
necessary for living a successful life.

I'm living a successful life without a higher power known as God, thank you
very much. I do believe in some type of supernatural power we can't
explain, but I don't believe in naming it or feel it necessary to belong to
a particular religion.
Please, don't feel you need to "educate" me either. I went to a
fundamentalist Christian middle and high school and probably know more about
church history than the average person. I fell for it while I was an
impressionable youth, but once I really started to learn about Christianity,
I decided that it was not for me.
--
-Kelly
kelly at farringtons dot net
"Wake up, and smell the cat food" -TMBG

kitkat wrote:
Slimpickins wrote:

*** Well, I don't know where everyone else lives, but it's
-(praying during
or before class) is not allowed at the mainstream public schools
where I
live. Unless, one has their kid enrolled in a 'religious' private
school.
It's gotten so 'PC' to be against Christianity that if a teacher
had a cross
displayed on her classroom wall then it would cause quite a
commotion. How
things change!

Yeah. Things do change. And IMO for the better. If a teacher wants to

express his or her devotion to a given religion, he or she should get
a
job in a private school. By having a cross on the wall in a
classroom,
IMO there is an implication that it is representative OF the
classroom
not specifically the teacher. As a Jew, it wouldn't even OCCUR to me
to
put up a star of david in my room. However, if I wanted to wear one
around my neck...more power to me, right? Then at least, the symbol
is
directly connected to ME and not making the implication that all the
students in that room are of that particular faith. I think the
reason
that Christians are feeling the heat now is because for SO long they
really HAVE tried to make the world a Christian only place and now
that
people have said enough is enough...it is suddenly considered
"against
Christianity" when that isn't really the case. I said this last night

and I'll say it again. I have much LESS of a problem with the
Christian
religion itself than I have with those who purport to be devout
followers. Generalization? Yes. But hopefully you get my drift.

All very well said.



I remember well at my old private school before each class we would
cross
our hands over our heart and say the pledge of allegence (to the
flag)...
"One nation under *God*, with liberty and justice for all". Gee,
now days
you could be cited and penalized for such 'discriminatory' talk.
What
hogwash, IMO. The ACLU would have a field day, I'm sure.

The ACLU protects everyone. Even unpopular groups, like the Klan. IMO
that isn't a bad thing.


Slim, we say the pledge at my public school every single day...one
nation under GOD, blah blah blah. At any rate, what you are
describing
above is perfectly lovely...especially as you say it was at your old
PRIVATE school. This is an honest question...what would you prefer of

the following options the pledge of allegiance in school:

1. eliminate it all together

This wasn't directed at me, per se, but I wouldn't have any problem
whatsoever if they "did away" with it. I don't want anyone forcing my
child to pledge allegiance to anything.



2. allow those kids who dont believe in the judeo-christian notion of

god to say something like "one nation, under allah" or "one nation,
under buddha" but continue on.

What's wrong with just "One nation, indivisible..."?

snip

I think young "minds" have enough on their plates without having
religion of any kind shoved down their throats on a daily basis at
school. If people want to do that to their kids at home, fine.

-L.

gaubster2 wrote:

Nobody is pushing any agenda. I don't care who sleeps with whom.
I
don't care who gets married to whom. I just feel that any two
consenting adults should be allowed to do both, and have the same
rights as I do.

Oh really? Then why did the "sisters of multnomah" go against state
law and not consult with the other member of the board and decide to
"legalize" gay marriage?

I don't know you would have to ask them.

That is an agenda that is PUSHED onto the
ciitizens at large. It was never put to a public vote and why was
that? Because it would've gone down in flames!

IIRC when "gay marriage" did go to vote in OR, it wasn't that big of a
margin for loss. Well, at the time I finally went to bed on election
day, that is.

Karl Rove made sure the "gay marriage" issue was put on the ballots in
order to bring out a "certain" type of voter in support of his
candidate. He succeeded.


The concept that marriage can be 2 people of the same-sex was voted
down in 12 states out of 12 states. Does that offend you?

Doesn't ofend me. It makes me sad. It shows we are a nation of
bigots.



What exactly is a "homosexual agend" anyway? Are you afraid
someone
might try to "make" you gay or something?

See above! You don't like prayer being "pushed" on kids, I don't
like
perversion being displayed for my child to see.

I'm sorry you see two people who love each other as "perversion".
That's a really sad ideology, IMO. You know, in the '40's and '50's
my husband and I would have been prohibited from marrying as well -
interracial marriage was banned and labeled "perverse" by many.

snip

For whatever reason, the left likes to
discriminate against Christianity, but not any other religion.

Nope. Christianity is the only religion that steadfastly tries to
change federal law into religious (biblical) law. the Jews don't
dso
it, the Muslims don't do it, the Buddhists don't do it, the Hindus
don't do it, etc. etc...If any one of the other religions tried to
do
the same, I would be against them doing so, as well.

Not true. How about in middle east where you HAVE to practice
Islam?

We are talking about the US, dear. US politics. Christians are the
only ones trying to turn this government into a theocracy.

Many of the signers of the declaration of independence were Unitarian.
I think they might have a hard time with Christians trying to create a
theocracy out of this country...

The majority of this country is Christian, yet we don't have a
state-mandated religion (the 1st Amendment in action!). Federal law
is
based on biblical law.

Nope. Federal law is based on morals and ethics.


Murder is not allowed in this country. Ever
heard of, "Thou shalt not murder"? Lieing is prosecuted in certain
circumstances...."Thou shalt not lie". See what I mean?

I didn't know that Christians had a monolpoly on morality. Silly me, I
thought all religions espoused morality. Not to mention those of us
who have moral values because of culture, upbringing, etc. Sorry, but
I don't think you and your Fundie friends can take all the credit for
developing morals in this country, Gauby.

It's been fun, Gauby, but I have to go. My kitties need some loving...

-L.

"Slimpickins" wrote in message
...

"Cathy Friedmann" wrote in message
...

"Slimpickins" wrote in message
...
**JMHO, But what is reeeally dangerous is when the balance in ones own
personal beliefs becomes too far left, or too far right.
Unfortunately,
this
skewed thinking is becoming more common, especially with those
individuals
who are mentally unbalanced to begin with.

I am a Christian and try to not to judge others and It's not easy. But
if
a
mother/father want to enroll their child in a private or public
school,
then
that is their business and their right. I wouldn't protest their
decision
and I wouldn't hurled abusive language at them because they don't
dance
my*
dance. Demanding for them to do so because *I* believe it is the
right
thing to do, is wrong. What the world need now is.. more living life
by
quiet example.

ML


I am not understanding how this follows, the thread. I haven't
noticed
anyone saying that a person doesn't have the right to choose between
public
or private education. The disagreement is over group prayer being
conducted
in public schools.

Cathy


*** Well, I don't know where everyone else lives, but it's -(praying
during
or before class) is not allowed at the mainstream public schools where I
live. Unless, one has their kid enrolled in a 'religious' private school.
It's gotten so 'PC' to be against Christianity that if a teacher had a
cross
displayed on her classroom wall then it would cause quite a commotion.
How
things change!

Yes, I imagine it *would* create quite a stir, & rightly so. Has nothing to
do with anyone being against Christianity, & that teacher practicing their
religion in his/her private life, but everything to do w/ her/him promoting
it in a public classroom.

I remember well at my old private school before each class we would cross
our hands over our heart and say the pledge of allegence (to the flag)...
"One nation under *God*, with liberty and justice for all". Gee, now days
you could be cited and penalized for such 'discriminatory' talk.

Since the Pledge has "under God" in there, people generally seem to take it
for granted & don't bat an eyelash. Although others want it back out of
there - "under God" was not originally in the Pledge of Allegiance.

What
hogwash, IMO. The ACLU would have a field day, I'm sure.

Honestly, I believe young, under-developed minds, need to be more pointed,
focused and reverent on how blessed we are in this country. How truth,
justice and having a *higher power* known as God, are important, pure and
necessary for living a successful life.

Then let their parents do this part of their education, if they believe in
God.

Cahty



ML- ( getting off her podum now :-)






"gaubster2" wrote in message
oups.com...

Cathy Friedmann wrote:

"gaubster2" wrote in message
ps.com...
WHY does there "need" to be a separation of church and state,
again?
That is found nowhere in the Constitution and in fact, the 1st
Amendment to that document guarantees all of us the Freedom OF
Religion, not the freedom FROM religion. There is nothing
wrong
with
prayer in schools, it doesn't cause anybody bodily harm.

What? You have to physically harm a person in order for any harm
to
be
done??

What kind of harm are you referencing? Property rights?



I have no
problem with a moment of silence in public school so the kids
can
silently
pray, meditate, collect their thoughts, or do nothing. I have a
BIG
problem
with an out-loud prayer or the teacher saying "let's pray".

Yep & yep.

Cathy

Yeah, because that is SOOOOOOOO dangerous! Not.

gaubster2 wrote:
snip


Like your President who is currently kulling the world of those
"nasty"
Muslims?

Here again you are being PARANOID! WE were attacked here in the US,
not you there in Brazil.

Gee...I didn't know I was in Brazil. Seems a little cold and dry here
today...

We have liberated millions of Muslims from
the tyrannical rule of Saddam and the Taliban. Apparently you have a
problem with people being set free?

I have a problem with any country imposing their religious and other
beliefs on any other country. What we did was wage an unprovoked
offensive war. It has nothing to do with "freedom".


We are saving Muslims, not killing
them.

All those dead bodies of Muslim people really donm't look too saved to
me. In fact, they look pretty dead. Especially the children - ooops -
I forgot - that's just "collateral damage".


We are killing the ones who are extreme and trying to kill us
first.

You aren't really *that* naive, are you?


snip

You can't just "make up" your own religion.

Oh really? Seems to me someone once made up all religions.
Satanism
is just as valid a belief system as Christianity is.

So, you are making a moral equivalency between Satan and Christ? You
are surely mad? Whom would you rather worship?

Neither. I don't believe Satan exists. I believe JC existed but I
don't believe he was any more the "son of God" than you or I am.

(a little mention
to the Almighty, there....just to tick you off

Doesn't bother me one bit. Just don't try to tell me when, where,
and
whom to worship.

Quit being so darned parnoid. Nobody is telling you what to do.

When you tell my kid he has to sit thorough your prayer seesion in my
public school, you are. When you tell my kid he has to recite the
pledge of allience in my school, you are. When you make him sing
Christmas songs and celebrate Christian holidays at school, you are.
Need I go on...?

-L.

PawsForThought wrote:
Keeping telling yourself I'm a liar, if it helps you deal with what a

pathetic LOSER you are, LOL. But the truth is you're once again
telling people your way is the only way. Get a grip. Your belief
system, and religion, is not the only one. This world is made up of
many different kinds of people (unfortunately you're one of them).
Religion does not belong in the government or in public schools.

Lauren, you're making some major ASSumptions here, as usual. Please
tell me (since you seem to know so well) exactly what my beliefs are
and what religion I am. Until you can do so (and accurately), I'll
just go back to assuming that you are trolling this particular
thread.

Actually trolling is your M.O, Gooby BTW, I'd guess you're
Catholic. Am I wrong?

About 2 years ago, you were outed as a liar on the subject of your
cats. I'm not the one that lied, you were and you must take
responsibility for that.

No, 2 years ago you called me a liar, not only that, you continually
harrassed me until I had to dig out the medical records for my deceased
cat, something I did not enjoy since it brought back a lot of painful
memories. You're just sore because my cats did so poorly on your
beloved Scie Die catfood and you can't let go of it. You really are a
freak. You have no credibility whatsoever in this newsgroup, you never
have, and you never will. You're a narrow-minded idiot who can't see
past his stuck up nose.

Lauren

In article , equalizer
wrote:
I think we all need to just keep in mind that Gaubster is nothing
more
than a troll/sock puppet who's posts are best taken with the same
amount
of credibility you'd give to a supermarket tabloid.

LOL! Nah, supermarket tabloids have a lot more credibility than Gooby