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when is enough, enough



 
 
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  #21  
Old July 13th 03, 09:55 PM
Karen Chuplis
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in article ,
at wrote on 7/13/03 1:49 PM:

Caliban wrote:

That she would interpret my words as
considering cats "disposable and
unworthy of care" is outrageous.
Fortunately, my post speaks for itself, as
does hers.


Your post spoke so loudly that everyone interpreted it as I did.

As is discussed here often, many agree
that there is a point where, despite the
best intentions, it's better to put a cat
down.
It may very well be that this cat is
suffering and his time has come, couldn't
it?


Did you even read (or comprehend) the original post??? This is not about
the cat suffering and nothing more being able to be done for it. This
about the OP's frustation with the cost of vet care and the cat getting
another UTI and possible blockage. You don't kill a cat because it has a
UTI or blockage. Sheesh. What the OP needs is an understanding shoulder
and some viable options that will help him to care for his cat better at
an infinitely smaller cost. Not suggestions that it should be killed,
especially during a time when there is a lot of frustration on the OP's
part. That is not the time to make irreversible decisions. I've offered
to help him and I hope he takes me up on it. This is nowhere near a
hopeless situation and euthanasia shouldn't even be part of the
discussion at this point.

Megan



"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."

-Edmund Burke

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material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his
way."

- W.H. Murray


Having one blockage does not even *mean* the cat will have another. So the
OP would be euthanizing on a *possibility*. It can't get much clearer than
that.

Karen

  #24  
Old July 14th 03, 12:04 AM
Helen
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"Sherry " wrote in message
...
We were going to call the vet Monday to schedule that test. It is
Saturday night at 11:00 I catch Andy trying to pee on the carpet.
(another blockage) I know we should rush out to the emergency vet, but
I decided to wait until morning (it is now almost 1:00am) and see what
the night brings. He may well be dead, have I not done more than most?
am I evil?
When is the point when enough is enough?


The biggest problem I see with your post is that the cat is probably in

extreme
discomfort from the blockage. No matter what you decide, it's wrong to let

him
suffer for 8 or 9 hours when you there is an ER available to you.

Sherry


And not only discomfort, but the poor cat could be in agony. In the worst
case, a cat who is blocked may endure a ruptured bladder. How anybody could
consider not treating a blocked cat even for one second is beyond my
comprehension. I still remember how Harpsie screamed when he was blocked )-:

Helen


  #25  
Old July 14th 03, 12:04 AM
Helen
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"Sherry " wrote in message
...
We were going to call the vet Monday to schedule that test. It is
Saturday night at 11:00 I catch Andy trying to pee on the carpet.
(another blockage) I know we should rush out to the emergency vet, but
I decided to wait until morning (it is now almost 1:00am) and see what
the night brings. He may well be dead, have I not done more than most?
am I evil?
When is the point when enough is enough?


The biggest problem I see with your post is that the cat is probably in

extreme
discomfort from the blockage. No matter what you decide, it's wrong to let

him
suffer for 8 or 9 hours when you there is an ER available to you.

Sherry


And not only discomfort, but the poor cat could be in agony. In the worst
case, a cat who is blocked may endure a ruptured bladder. How anybody could
consider not treating a blocked cat even for one second is beyond my
comprehension. I still remember how Harpsie screamed when he was blocked )-:

Helen


  #26  
Old July 14th 03, 01:56 AM
[email protected]
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Caliban wrote:

I think it's important to face the reality that there are very real
financial limits to how much good a person can do.


And they should do good with the cats they already own first. After all
they took them in so those cats are their responsibility. I honestly think
if we could get a lot more people to think that way we'd have less of a
problem homing cats. A lot of times the idea of them being disposable and
you can just get another cat cheaper helps with people just giving cats
back to the shelter.

A pet is a responsibility for life, not just a money figure.

If you have a problem with having limits to how much one can spend to save a
cat's life, then welcome to the real world.


I understand that sometimes people can't afford care or even the
consideration of what life left the cat has and how good it would be
compared to how much cost it would be to try to give that amount/quality
of life (for example, "I don't have much money. This cat is going to cost
me 400 dollars to maybe save her/him, no guarentee, and she's 17 years
old."). It sux bigtime, but I can understand it. Sometimes the money just
isn't there.

But, I don't suscribe to the because you can save this many cats with
that money is justification to just put the cat to sleep. That's a
different arguement entirely. That's not I can't afford the care, that
is, the cat is disposable and I can just get another one (or two or
three). Your first responsibility is with the cat you took in for care,
not other cats you haven't agreed to care for yet. That should be what is
focused on, not how many other cats could be adopted with the money.

Alice

--
The root cause of problems is simple overpopulation. People just aren't
worth very much any more, and they know it. Makes 'em testy. ...Bev
|\ _,,,---,,_ Tigress
/,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ http://havoc.gtf.gatech.edu/tigress
|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'
'---''(_/--' `-'\_) Cat by Felix Lee.
  #27  
Old July 14th 03, 01:56 AM
[email protected]
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Default

Caliban wrote:

I think it's important to face the reality that there are very real
financial limits to how much good a person can do.


And they should do good with the cats they already own first. After all
they took them in so those cats are their responsibility. I honestly think
if we could get a lot more people to think that way we'd have less of a
problem homing cats. A lot of times the idea of them being disposable and
you can just get another cat cheaper helps with people just giving cats
back to the shelter.

A pet is a responsibility for life, not just a money figure.

If you have a problem with having limits to how much one can spend to save a
cat's life, then welcome to the real world.


I understand that sometimes people can't afford care or even the
consideration of what life left the cat has and how good it would be
compared to how much cost it would be to try to give that amount/quality
of life (for example, "I don't have much money. This cat is going to cost
me 400 dollars to maybe save her/him, no guarentee, and she's 17 years
old."). It sux bigtime, but I can understand it. Sometimes the money just
isn't there.

But, I don't suscribe to the because you can save this many cats with
that money is justification to just put the cat to sleep. That's a
different arguement entirely. That's not I can't afford the care, that
is, the cat is disposable and I can just get another one (or two or
three). Your first responsibility is with the cat you took in for care,
not other cats you haven't agreed to care for yet. That should be what is
focused on, not how many other cats could be adopted with the money.

Alice

--
The root cause of problems is simple overpopulation. People just aren't
worth very much any more, and they know it. Makes 'em testy. ...Bev
|\ _,,,---,,_ Tigress
/,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ http://havoc.gtf.gatech.edu/tigress
|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'
'---''(_/--' `-'\_) Cat by Felix Lee.
  #28  
Old July 14th 03, 02:00 AM
[email protected]
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Posts: n/a
Default

Karen Chuplis wrote:


The costs are out of bounds. Also for the blockage. My cat had a blockage
and after three days of treatment it was more like 400 dollars (and that was
an emergency vet, not my regular) not 1200. The OP's vet is exhorbitant.


Seriously. My vet rarely ever gets that high on a bill and usually it is a
bad car crash with lots of surgery required (the dog I'm remembering had
two broken legs, one had to be amputated, and a broken hip, and it reached
900, with some severe discounts because the vet realized the people were
not well off) or one time an autoimmune attack on a dog that was
particularly vicious (it was the oddest one the vet had ever seen). And
those are *RARE*. Even for most surgeries including ones getting rid of
cancers it tends to be more like 600 dollars or even 400 dollars (usually
most surgeries are more like 400).

Alice

--
The root cause of problems is simple overpopulation. People just aren't
worth very much any more, and they know it. Makes 'em testy. ...Bev
|\ _,,,---,,_ Tigress
/,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ http://havoc.gtf.gatech.edu/tigress
|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'
'---''(_/--' `-'\_) Cat by Felix Lee.
  #29  
Old July 14th 03, 02:00 AM
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Karen Chuplis wrote:


The costs are out of bounds. Also for the blockage. My cat had a blockage
and after three days of treatment it was more like 400 dollars (and that was
an emergency vet, not my regular) not 1200. The OP's vet is exhorbitant.


Seriously. My vet rarely ever gets that high on a bill and usually it is a
bad car crash with lots of surgery required (the dog I'm remembering had
two broken legs, one had to be amputated, and a broken hip, and it reached
900, with some severe discounts because the vet realized the people were
not well off) or one time an autoimmune attack on a dog that was
particularly vicious (it was the oddest one the vet had ever seen). And
those are *RARE*. Even for most surgeries including ones getting rid of
cancers it tends to be more like 600 dollars or even 400 dollars (usually
most surgeries are more like 400).

Alice

--
The root cause of problems is simple overpopulation. People just aren't
worth very much any more, and they know it. Makes 'em testy. ...Bev
|\ _,,,---,,_ Tigress
/,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ http://havoc.gtf.gatech.edu/tigress
|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'
'---''(_/--' `-'\_) Cat by Felix Lee.
  #30  
Old July 14th 03, 02:04 AM
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Caliban wrote:
Don't be so black and white about who is and is not a saint. And why aren't
you spending your money on saving the lives of children, hm? Do cats outrank
children in your mind?


I'll donate to causes for animals a lo tmore than I'll donate to causes
for children. There are plenty more people willing to already donat their
money to save the children... less people are as willing to donate for
pets.

You're judging, and it's out of line IMO. My point is you don't know exactly
what the OP faces. He or she may have children to care for. What of the
people who choose saving children over saving the family pet? Do you call
them despicable?


The contention I've seen is not that she is horrible for not spending the
money but that she could get a second opinion and could find a cheaper
vet (it seems many thinkt he current vet is soaking her, and judging from
the price I saw, I agree). The contention I see is that people don't feel
the vet she is going to is treating her right.

Alice

--
The root cause of problems is simple overpopulation. People just aren't
worth very much any more, and they know it. Makes 'em testy. ...Bev
|\ _,,,---,,_ Tigress
/,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ http://havoc.gtf.gatech.edu/tigress
|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'
'---''(_/--' `-'\_) Cat by Felix Lee.
 




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