Dry food and drinking at the same time

Cheryl wrote:

Joe Canuck wrote in on
13 Dec 2003:


I have read that it isn't quite the same as far as the body is concerned
but I'm still not convinced as water intake is water intake no matter
where it comes from.


I've read that, too. I do know that when Shadow ate all canned food, he
rarely drank water. Shamrock eats mainly canned food now and rarely drinks
which sucks because after his dental, the vet said to put an enzyme into
his drinking water to help break down plaque.


As for what I've read... the theory was that cats who eat wet food
satisify most of their moisture requirements with the food and that most
of this moisture is excreted as urine rather than moisture in the feces.

On the other hand, cats who consume dry food are the opposite. They need
to drink to satisfy the moisture requirement, some may not drink enough.
The moisture is excreted more in the feces than it is in the urine.


This is the part that scares me. She's already had a bout of UTI and I do
know it is important to get her peeing more. Her pee balls are kind of
small; I can tell the difference between hers and Shamrock (who pees like a
race horse). Then again it's hard to distinguish any of their litter box
doings sometimes with Shadow coming in and spraying diarrhea all over the
box. sigh We go through a lot of litter. lol


I don't understand any more about it than this. I have observed a
different behavior in my own cat who consumes dry. She will settle down
for a meal of dry and then sometime afterwards will have a drink. She
drinks quite a lot during the day. The size of the clumps in the litter
box are evidence of that.


That's great to read.



I tried putting ice cubes in the Drinkwell for the first time yesterday.
I think she enjoyed the cold drink more than the entertainment of the
ice cubes floating around in the pool.

At one time I had two cats and it was my experience they both started
drinking more with the introduction of the fountain.

--
"Its the bugs that keep it running."
-Joe Canuck

"Cheryl" wrote in message
...
If a cat who will only eat dry food (good quality food) also drinks at the
same time, ie eats some then drinks, then eats more, then drinks... isn't
that close to the same as eating wet food, as far as their body knows?

Not as far as total water intake and water turnover are concerned. Cats fed
dry food drink about 6x more water than cats fed canned food, but their
total water intake (from food and drinking) decreases when they're fed dry
food only. Specifically, when fed dry food, the total water to dry matter
intake ratio (TH20/DM) varies from 2.0 to 2.8: 1 whereas on canned foods it
varies from 3. 0 to 5.7: 1 -- 150% to 200% higher when fed canned food with
a moisture content of 75% or more. There have been 20 years of studies
that have confirmed and reconfirmed this fact.

The reason why cats become dehydrated so easily and quickly is because they
have a somewhat weak thirst drive - which they inherited from their
desert-dwelling ancestors - who evolved obtaining most (90%) of their total
water requirement from their food (prey). As a consequence, they never
developed a strong thirst drive and therefore can't make rapid and precise
changes in their water intake to compensate for changes in their hydration
status.

The higher water intake and water turnover achieved from canned food results
in more frequent urination -- which is actually the first line of defense in
preventing ascending infections of the urinary tract. Frequent urination
inhibits bacterial colonization of the urinary tract by frequently washing
out bacteria and organisms from the bladder and urethra with fresh, sterile
urine. Another advantage of a higher water turnover and higher urine volume
is distention of the bladder and urethra -- which stretches and opens
mucosal folds and crevices where bacteria can become trapped.

The higher urine volume also dilutes the concentration of potentially
calculogenic solutes and crystalloids -- the frequent urination flushes the
solutes from the urinary tract before they can grow large enough to cause a
problem.

So as you can see, there's a little more to it.

Phil

"Cheryl" wrote in message
...
If a cat who will only eat dry food (good quality food) also drinks at the
same time, ie eats some then drinks, then eats more, then drinks... isn't
that close to the same as eating wet food, as far as their body knows?

Not as far as total water intake and water turnover are concerned. Cats fed
dry food drink about 6x more water than cats fed canned food, but their
total water intake (from food and drinking) decreases when they're fed dry
food only. Specifically, when fed dry food, the total water to dry matter
intake ratio (TH20/DM) varies from 2.0 to 2.8: 1 whereas on canned foods it
varies from 3. 0 to 5.7: 1 -- 150% to 200% higher when fed canned food with
a moisture content of 75% or more. There have been 20 years of studies
that have confirmed and reconfirmed this fact.

The reason why cats become dehydrated so easily and quickly is because they
have a somewhat weak thirst drive - which they inherited from their
desert-dwelling ancestors - who evolved obtaining most (90%) of their total
water requirement from their food (prey). As a consequence, they never
developed a strong thirst drive and therefore can't make rapid and precise
changes in their water intake to compensate for changes in their hydration
status.

The higher water intake and water turnover achieved from canned food results
in more frequent urination -- which is actually the first line of defense in
preventing ascending infections of the urinary tract. Frequent urination
inhibits bacterial colonization of the urinary tract by frequently washing
out bacteria and organisms from the bladder and urethra with fresh, sterile
urine. Another advantage of a higher water turnover and higher urine volume
is distention of the bladder and urethra -- which stretches and opens
mucosal folds and crevices where bacteria can become trapped.

The higher urine volume also dilutes the concentration of potentially
calculogenic solutes and crystalloids -- the frequent urination flushes the
solutes from the urinary tract before they can grow large enough to cause a
problem.

So as you can see, there's a little more to it.

Phil

I too have read that water consumed with dry food tends to go more to the
feces than to urine. Canned food tends to go to urine. If your cat hasn't
been blocked, I don't think you need to be concerned about this. But in my
cat's case, he was on a high-quality natural dry-food diet, and he drank
lots of water. He pooped more than he does now, but he blocked. He's also
quite sedentary since he's become an indoor cat, and I am nearly certain
that is part of the equation as he is overweight.


ava


On Sat, 13 Dec 2003, Joe Canuck wrote:

Cheryl wrote:

Joe Canuck wrote in on
13 Dec 2003:


I have read that it isn't quite the same as far as the body is concerned
but I'm still not convinced as water intake is water intake no matter
where it comes from.


I've read that, too. I do know that when Shadow ate all canned food, he
rarely drank water. Shamrock eats mainly canned food now and rarely drinks
which sucks because after his dental, the vet said to put an enzyme into
his drinking water to help break down plaque.


As for what I've read... the theory was that cats who eat wet food
satisify most of their moisture requirements with the food and that most
of this moisture is excreted as urine rather than moisture in the feces.

On the other hand, cats who consume dry food are the opposite. They need
to drink to satisfy the moisture requirement, some may not drink enough.
The moisture is excreted more in the feces than it is in the urine.


This is the part that scares me. She's already had a bout of UTI and I do
know it is important to get her peeing more. Her pee balls are kind of
small; I can tell the difference between hers and Shamrock (who pees like a
race horse). Then again it's hard to distinguish any of their litter box
doings sometimes with Shadow coming in and spraying diarrhea all over the
box. sigh We go through a lot of litter. lol


I don't understand any more about it than this. I have observed a
different behavior in my own cat who consumes dry. She will settle down
for a meal of dry and then sometime afterwards will have a drink. She
drinks quite a lot during the day. The size of the clumps in the litter
box are evidence of that.


That's great to read.



I tried putting ice cubes in the Drinkwell for the first time yesterday.
I think she enjoyed the cold drink more than the entertainment of the
ice cubes floating around in the pool.

At one time I had two cats and it was my experience they both started
drinking more with the introduction of the fountain.

--
"Its the bugs that keep it running."
-Joe Canuck

I too have read that water consumed with dry food tends to go more to the
feces than to urine. Canned food tends to go to urine. If your cat hasn't
been blocked, I don't think you need to be concerned about this. But in my
cat's case, he was on a high-quality natural dry-food diet, and he drank
lots of water. He pooped more than he does now, but he blocked. He's also
quite sedentary since he's become an indoor cat, and I am nearly certain
that is part of the equation as he is overweight.


ava


On Sat, 13 Dec 2003, Joe Canuck wrote:

Cheryl wrote:

Joe Canuck wrote in on
13 Dec 2003:


I have read that it isn't quite the same as far as the body is concerned
but I'm still not convinced as water intake is water intake no matter
where it comes from.


I've read that, too. I do know that when Shadow ate all canned food, he
rarely drank water. Shamrock eats mainly canned food now and rarely drinks
which sucks because after his dental, the vet said to put an enzyme into
his drinking water to help break down plaque.


As for what I've read... the theory was that cats who eat wet food
satisify most of their moisture requirements with the food and that most
of this moisture is excreted as urine rather than moisture in the feces.

On the other hand, cats who consume dry food are the opposite. They need
to drink to satisfy the moisture requirement, some may not drink enough.
The moisture is excreted more in the feces than it is in the urine.


This is the part that scares me. She's already had a bout of UTI and I do
know it is important to get her peeing more. Her pee balls are kind of
small; I can tell the difference between hers and Shamrock (who pees like a
race horse). Then again it's hard to distinguish any of their litter box
doings sometimes with Shadow coming in and spraying diarrhea all over the
box. sigh We go through a lot of litter. lol


I don't understand any more about it than this. I have observed a
different behavior in my own cat who consumes dry. She will settle down
for a meal of dry and then sometime afterwards will have a drink. She
drinks quite a lot during the day. The size of the clumps in the litter
box are evidence of that.


That's great to read.



I tried putting ice cubes in the Drinkwell for the first time yesterday.
I think she enjoyed the cold drink more than the entertainment of the
ice cubes floating around in the pool.

At one time I had two cats and it was my experience they both started
drinking more with the introduction of the fountain.

--
"Its the bugs that keep it running."
-Joe Canuck

another fact: a cat uses (loses) water in grooming; about as much as it
loses in urine.

another fact: a cat uses (loses) water in grooming; about as much as it
loses in urine.

Laura R. wrote in on 13
Dec 2003:

circa 13 Dec 2003 21:51:30 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Cheryl
) said,
I've read that, too. I do know that when Shadow ate all canned food,
he rarely drank water. Shamrock eats mainly canned food now and
rarely drinks which sucks because after his dental, the vet said to
put an enzyme into his drinking water to help break down plaque.

Can't you put the enzyme into his food?

Laura

I'll have to ask; I don't see why not. Thanks! The other option on the
bottle says to spray a fine mist directly into the mouth. Not sure he'll
let me do that but I'll work on it.

--
Cheryl

"I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I
can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do."
- Helen Keller

Laura R. wrote in on 13
Dec 2003:

circa 13 Dec 2003 21:51:30 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Cheryl
) said,
I've read that, too. I do know that when Shadow ate all canned food,
he rarely drank water. Shamrock eats mainly canned food now and
rarely drinks which sucks because after his dental, the vet said to
put an enzyme into his drinking water to help break down plaque.

Can't you put the enzyme into his food?

Laura

I'll have to ask; I don't see why not. Thanks! The other option on the
bottle says to spray a fine mist directly into the mouth. Not sure he'll
let me do that but I'll work on it.

--
Cheryl

"I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I
can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do."
- Helen Keller

Phil P. wrote in on 14 Dec 2003:

So as you can see, there's a little more to it.

Yeah.. wishful thinking. Didn't hurt to ask. I just can't get her to eat
canned food consistantly. She's a hardhead and would rather not eat at all
then eat canned food. She's been all day without food before just trying to
get her to eat it. And I've started slow with mixing with dry; a nugget or
two of cubed-shaped canned food in dry food, drizzle water on her dry,
Mixit (with both canned and dry and a combination), so many flavors, types
and brands....

--
Cheryl

"I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I
can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do."
- Helen Keller