How to stop cats killing?

Ellie Bentley wrote:
PawsForThought wrote:
OP, why not build an outdoor enclosure for the cats?

An enclosure. Hmmm. Well, it would have to be a mighty big one for my
two not to consider it a cage. At the moment they go out at 11.30am and
come back in for dinner at 4.30pm and then they happily stay inside
until 11.30 the next day. All through that time they are "caged", from
their point of view. The thrill of going out, for them, is clearly the
thrill of being truly free. I can see what you are getting at but I
would still prefer to let them roam naturally, satisfying their
inexhaustible curiosity etc., but if there were some device that would
stop them killing that would be great. I sincerely believe that there
is a way round this. Maybe it just hasn't been invented yet!

I know cats really enjoy being outside, but if you're concerned about
them killing, they are only doing what comes naturally to them. I
can't let my cats outside alone. There's just too many dangers where I
live including cars, dogs, racoons, etc. Oh, and fortunately not in my
city, but a few cities away there is some sick individual who is
killing animals. It was in the newspaper today and it was really
gruesome
So I keep my cats inside, they have a couple of cat trees, and they get
lots of attention and play time. Sure, it would be nice from their
point of view to be outside, but I've already lost a cat to a predator
outdoors. That's why I suggested the enclosure. I've seen some really
nice ones, and you can put in cat trees and other things to make it fun
for them.

Lauren

"Ellie Bentley" wrote in message
...
PawsForThought wrote:
OP, why not build an outdoor enclosure for the cats?

An enclosure. Hmmm. Well, it would have to be a mighty big one for my
two not to consider it a cage. At the moment they go out at 11.30am and
come back in for dinner at 4.30pm and then they happily stay inside
until 11.30 the next day. All through that time they are "caged", from
their point of view. The thrill of going out, for them, is clearly the
thrill of being truly free. I can see what you are getting at but I
would still prefer to let them roam naturally, satisfying their
inexhaustible curiosity etc., but if there were some device that would
stop them killing that would be great. I sincerely believe that there
is a way round this. Maybe it just hasn't been invented yet!



Okay - have you tried putting bells on their collars so the birds, mice and
voles have a little warning.?

Other than keeping the cats confined inside, or in an outside pen there is
no absolute way to keep them from killing. That's what cats are designed to
do. And I can just imagine how badly my cats would scratch me if I tried to
muzzle them.

If you live in the country, be happy the kitties are helping to keep the
mouse population down (Field mice can reproduce every 30 days if there's
enough food.) The birds just need to be careful.
(Believe me most of the birds know your cats are around and are very
careful!)

So you have to make a choice - is the pleasure my cats get from going
outdoors more important to me than the number of mice/birds they are
killing. If you want to protect the wildlife and let the kitties outside,
enclosures/pens are pretty much the only sure way.

Some Examples.

Check out this outside pen - its enormous and you can build it yourself:
http://www.just4cats.com/
http://www.just4cats.com/post1.html

http://www.purrfectfence.com/ cat proof fences
http://www.petsnap.com/menu-nav/cat-...W&AG=cat-fence -
smaller pens

They are going to hate me :-) but no more hiding in the dark just got to
remember what it is when I have one eye open at 4 am
"---MIKE---" wrote in message
...
Matthew wrote:

Mike Ii would just worry about possible
heat causing a burn plus battery life

A device like that would not get hot and it would use very little power
- batteries should last a long time.


---MIKE---
In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
(44° 15' N - Elevation 1580')

"Ellie Bentley" wrote in message
...
Mike wrote:
Keep your cats indoors at all times. There should be no reason to even
let
a cat outdoors unleashed.
You can't change a cat's killer instinct.

As you say, the cat has a hunter/killer instinct which can't be changed.
This instinct is given natural fulfillment when the cat is allowed to
roam free - like his ancestors.... I couldn't possibly
deprive them of their natural pleasure.

Buy a harness and a leash and set some time aside to take your cats out.
Otherwise, don't be surprised if one day a cat doesn't come home.

"Ellie Bentley" wrote in message
...
Ryan Robbins wrote:
Why not? You're begging for trouble when you let your cats outdoors to
roam
around. Buy a harness and a leash and set aside a half hour each day to
take
your cat out.

We did the leash thing for an hour each day when they were kittens and
could easily have got lost and been unable to fen for themselves. I
should add that now they don't get into trouble themselves. They are
tough hardy cats when they are outside.

A cat is no match for a fisher, a motor vehicle, or a schmuck with a gun.

"Ellie Bentley" wrote in message
...
Anna via CatKB.com wrote:
You can also take them out yourself using a harness and leash or tie-out
(never tied up unattended though, too easy for dogs or other cats to get
at
them).

The harness and leash aren't an option but I am concerned that any other
suggestion doesn't, as you say, pose a danger to them.

Why are they not an option?

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 03:39:24 GMT, "Ryan Robbins"
wrote:

A cat is no match for a fisher, a motor vehicle, or a schmuck with a gun.

Neither am I, my daughter or my wife - So should we all stay in or
wear leashes?


http://www.black-cat-gfx.co.uk/

"A cat is only technically an animal,
being divine" - Robert Lynd

How about we put a muzzle on some humans who even think of such a bad
suggestion of muzzling a cat?

--
Cat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time!
www.catgalaxymedia.com

Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of Your Computer Needs!
www.panthertekit.com
"PawsForThought" wrote in message
ups.com...

Buddy wrote:
Hunting and killing is a cat's instinct. The only way you are going to
stop it is to keep your cats indoors. Putting a muzzle on it and
letting it outside is giving it a death sentence. How in the world
will it protect itself?

OMG yes, that would be terrible to put a muzzle on the cat To the
OP, why not build an outdoor enclosure for the cats?

wrote in message
. com...

"Ellie Bentley" wrote in message
...
PawsForThought wrote:
OP, why not build an outdoor enclosure for the cats?

An enclosure. Hmmm. Well, it would have to be a mighty big one for my
two not to consider it a cage. At the moment they go out at 11.30am and
come back in for dinner at 4.30pm and then they happily stay inside
until 11.30 the next day. All through that time they are "caged", from
their point of view. The thrill of going out, for them, is clearly the
thrill of being truly free. I can see what you are getting at but I
would still prefer to let them roam naturally, satisfying their
inexhaustible curiosity etc., but if there were some device that would
stop them killing that would be great. I sincerely believe that there
is a way round this. Maybe it just hasn't been invented yet!



Okay - have you tried putting bells on their collars so the birds, mice
and voles have a little warning.?


Even a bell might not be much help. One of my friends told me about a cat
that had a bell on its neck to give the family canary warning that it was
coming and how it defeated the bell: the cat swung its neck in such a way
that it could grab the bell in its mouth, which had the effect of silencing
the bell. Then it was able to sneak up on the canary.

Now, it's a long time ago that she told me this so I don't recall if this
was something she saw with her own eyes or if it was something she was told
by someone else who claimed to have seen it. I would be more inclined to
believe something that someone had seen themselves. But it does sound like
something a smart cat could do.

--
Rhino

"Ellie Bentley" wrote in message
...
I know all cats have a deeply ingrained instinct to hunt. I don't mind
that. It's just the constant killing that I would rather have them
avoid. Birds, voles, mice, shrews, weasels, and rabbits: I find them
all waiting for me on the kitchen floor.

Any ideas on how to stop them actually killing? I wouldn't want to put
an end to their going outside and hunting. I'm thinking in terms of
some kind of muzzle or head-guard. Or maybe there's some other device?

Sonic collars can reduce the number of prey caught by cats, especially
birds.
They are recommended by the Feline Advisory Bureau (UK).
--
Alison
http://catinfolinks.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/
http://doginfolinks.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/