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Declawing



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 20th 10, 11:42 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes,rec.pets.cats.health+behav,free.usenet
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,802
Default Declawing



John Doe wrote:
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" evgmsop earthlink.net wrote:

John Doe wrote:


Cats use their claws for practically everything they do, not
just for self-defense. Cats use their claws for hunting,
playing, exercise, soft defense, and for getting from here to
there.


Have you ever actually OBSERVED a declawed cat in action?


I have not, and I never will except maybe by chance. But I have
this thing called COMMON SENSE


Really? Your posts certainly do not display much of it!

that trumps your claim to have a
declawed cat and your superficial observations.


Not "superficial" at all, since I have actually LIVED with a declawed
cat, and you admit you have not! (Are you REALLY as ignorant as you
make yourself appear to be?)

Watching Cendrillon, you'd not realize she has no front claws.


As more than a superficial observer, the difference would be
obvious to me.


I challenge you to prove it!

She still has TOES, after all -


The idea that a cat's toes are comparable to a cat's claws is just
silly.


However, if you knew as much as you think you do, you'd be aware that
the declawing process involves amputation of the first joint of the
cat's toes. (Ergo....)

they only amputate the first joint in the declawing process.
People might not be very happy to lose the first joints of their
fingers, either, but as amputees, they'd adjust - their hands
and the remains of the fingers (including the opposable thumb)
would still be there.


There is no comparison between a cat's claw and an individual
joint of a human finger.


Why not? Declawing a cat involves just that amputation?

Cats do not use their joints to hang on to anything,


(Rest of ignorant tirade snipped.)

I don't believe in docking dogs' tails, either, but even
tail-less they manage to "wag".


And what the **** does a dog's tail have to do with a cat's claws?


It's an integral part of the dog's anatomy, and equally necessary to
it's total well-being. (Idiot!)
  #2  
Old July 21st 10, 01:27 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes,rec.pets.cats.health+behav
cshenk
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,889
Default Declawing

"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote
John Doe wrote:


John Doe almost looks like a spammer to me but hard to tell.

Have you ever actually OBSERVED a declawed cat in action?


I have not, and I never will except maybe by chance. But I have this
thing called COMMON SENSE


Really? Your posts certainly do not display much of it!


I rescued 2 cats I didnt want and was afraid to take. The owner was having
them put to sleep as his new wife developed an 'allergy' when pregnant. I
think her 'allergy' was cleaning the cat litter so he had to do it. (There
are reasons why pregnant humans shouldn't do that for a bit). The guy
wanted to review my home to be sure I was 'suitable for his beloved
kitties'. AKA spick and span clean and all that.

I cleaned up, and took the kitties adding them to a 2 cat existing household
and i have *never* declawed a cat. I learned instead how to train them to
acceptable behavior.

These 2 new kitties minced in with pain. A sad story and a rather ugly one.

I took them to my vet right away as even for declawed cats, this was very
abnormal. Vet took all the info I had on the guy and tried to take him to
court for animal abuse. Although he could not 'prove' it, he suspected the
guy did the job himself with toenail clippers. All 4 paws on both of them.

We never got the guy and the vet did me the best cut rare deal of 100$ a
foot for the 2 of them that he could (this was cost of materials and meds
only) to make it so they could walk pain-free.

I admit this is a radical case but I am just ever so much into not declawing
since that.

Not "superficial" at all, since I have actually LIVED with a declawed cat,
and you admit you have not! (Are you REALLY as ignorant as you make
yourself appear to be?)


My attributes may be wrong (sue me). I have lived with 2 declawed and 2
normals at the same time. Fast I noted front declaw alone leads to more
hissing and defence becomes BITING which leads to vet due to puncture
wounds, rare in clawed kitties.

And what the **** does a dog's tail have to do with a cat's claws?


It's an integral part of the dog's anatomy, and equally necessary to it's
total well-being. (Idiot!)


There we may differ a tiny bit. I don't agree with docking for dogs, but we
have over bred some versions to where they literally break their tails and
it may have to be done later to give them ability if it can't be reset. You
may find a search on 'cold tail' useful there. Our Cash-pup broke his tail
before we got him and had an incident about 1 year after we got him but it
healed. If it happens again, we may have to dock him to remove the pain if
he gets an unmovable tail hanging down. He's not your traditional 'dock
tail' sort so it isnt for cosmetics. Imagine part of your spine broken then
hanging helplessly down and hurting all the time. Thats when 'docking' is
medical. It removes the weight hanging down that they *cant* do anything
about except feel pain from.

So, my stance (forgive me if messed attributes up) is declawing is never
needed or good, but docking a dog *may* sometimes be a medical need.

  #3  
Old July 21st 10, 05:12 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes,rec.pets.cats.health+behav
Kyla =^..^=[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 576
Default Declawing


"cshenk"
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote
John Doe wrote:


John Doe almost looks like a spammer to me but hard to tell.


I agree

Have you ever actually OBSERVED a declawed cat in action?


I have not, and I never will except maybe by chance. But I have this
thing called COMMON SENSE


Really? Your posts certainly do not display much of it!


I rescued 2 cats I didnt want and was afraid to take. The owner was
having them put to sleep as his new wife developed an 'allergy' when
pregnant. I think her 'allergy' was cleaning the cat litter so he had to
do it. (There are reasons why pregnant humans shouldn't do that for a
bit). The guy wanted to review my home to be sure I was 'suitable for his
beloved kitties'. AKA spick and span clean and all that.

I cleaned up, and took the kitties adding them to a 2 cat existing
household and i have *never* declawed a cat. I learned instead how to
train them to acceptable behavior.

These 2 new kitties minced in with pain. A sad story and a rather ugly
one.

I took them to my vet right away as even for declawed cats, this was very
abnormal. Vet took all the info I had on the guy and tried to take him to
court for animal abuse. Although he could not 'prove' it, he suspected
the guy did the job himself with toenail clippers. All 4 paws on both of
them.

We never got the guy and the vet did me the best cut rare deal of 100$ a
foot for the 2 of them that he could (this was cost of materials and meds
only) to make it so they could walk pain-free.

I admit this is a radical case but I am just ever so much into not
declawing since that.

Not "superficial" at all, since I have actually LIVED with a declawed
cat, and you admit you have not! (Are you REALLY as ignorant as you make
yourself appear to be?)


My attributes may be wrong (sue me). I have lived with 2 declawed and 2
normals at the same time. Fast I noted front declaw alone leads to more
hissing and defence becomes BITING which leads to vet due to puncture
wounds, rare in clawed kitties.

And what the **** does a dog's tail have to do with a cat's claws?


Nice words Joe :/

It's an integral part of the dog's anatomy, and equally necessary to it's
total well-being. (Idiot!)


There we may differ a tiny bit. I don't agree with docking for dogs, but
we have over bred some versions to where they literally break their tails
and it may have to be done later to give them ability if it can't be
reset. You may find a search on 'cold tail' useful there. Our Cash-pup
broke his tail before we got him and had an incident about 1 year after we
got him but it healed. If it happens again, we may have to dock him to
remove the pain if he gets an unmovable tail hanging down. He's not your
traditional 'dock tail' sort so it isnt for cosmetics. Imagine part of
your spine broken then hanging helplessly down and hurting all the time.
Thats when 'docking' is medical. It removes the weight hanging down that
they *cant* do anything about except feel pain from.

So, my stance (forgive me if messed attributes up) is declawing is never
needed or good, but docking a dog *may* sometimes be a medical need.


Thank you..I think declawing is wrong for any reason and that's the last I
am saying on the subject....it makes me sick!!! And yes, Joe is an idiot!!!
Kyla



  #4  
Old July 21st 10, 06:52 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes,rec.pets.cats.health+behav
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,802
Default Declawing



cshenk wrote:


My attributes may be wrong (sue me). I have lived with 2 declawed and 2
normals at the same time. Fast I noted front declaw alone leads to more
hissing and defence becomes BITING which leads to vet due to puncture
wounds, rare in clawed kitties.


I suspect that may be largely a matter of the individual cat's
temperament. It's Melisande (the cat with all her claws) who tends to
bite, often for no discernible reason. Cendrillon, on the other hand,
has never bitten me - and come to think of it, I don't remember ever
hearing her hiss! Of course, my observations involve only one cat that
has been declawed, and anyone who has ever lived with cats knows that
there is NO statement beginning with "All cats...." that does not have a
multitude of exceptions. My two seem very closely bonded - they groom
each other affectionately, sleep together on my bed at night, and most
of their "aggressive" games are clearly play.
  #5  
Old July 22nd 10, 12:22 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes,rec.pets.cats.health+behav
cshenk
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,889
Default Declawing

"Kyla =^..^=" wrote
"cshenk"
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote
John Doe wrote:


John Doe almost looks like a spammer to me but hard to tell.


I agree


Hard to tell.

I rescued 2 cats I didnt want and was afraid to take. The owner was
having them put to sleep as his new wife developed an 'allergy' when
pregnant. I think her 'allergy' was cleaning the cat litter so he had to
do it. (There are reasons why pregnant humans shouldn't do that for a
bit). The guy wanted to review my home to be sure I was 'suitable for
his beloved kitties'. AKA spick and span clean and all that.


The OP said if I didnt pass muster, he was having thew 2 cats put the sleep.
He 'loved them to much to let them go to an impefect house'.

I cleaned up, and took the kitties adding them to a 2 cat existing
household and i have *never* declawed a cat. I learned instead how to
train them to acceptable behavior.

These 2 new kitties minced in with pain. A sad story and a rather ugly
one.

I took them to my vet right away as even for declawed cats, this was very
abnormal. Vet took all the info I had on the guy and tried to take him to
court for animal abuse. Although he could not 'prove' it, he suspected
the guy did the job himself with toenail clippers. All 4 paws on both of
them.

We never got the guy and the vet did me the best cut rare deal of 100$ a
foot for the 2 of them that he could (this was cost of materials and meds
only) to make it so they could walk pain-free.

I admit this is a radical case but I am just ever so much into not
declawing since that.

Not "superficial" at all, since I have actually LIVED with a declawed
cat, and you admit you have not! (Are you REALLY as ignorant as you
make yourself appear to be?)


My attributes may be wrong (sue me). I have lived with 2 declawed and 2
normals at the same time. Fast I noted front declaw alone leads to more
hissing and defence becomes BITING which leads to vet due to puncture
wounds, rare in clawed kitties.

And what the **** does a dog's tail have to do with a cat's claws?


Nice words Joe :/


He's not relating a potential medical need with a 'gee it would be nice it
they cant scratch the couch'.

Lets face it, I rescued 2 cats from an asshole and even the vet tried to
find him to charge him with animal abuse.

It's an integral part of the dog's anatomy, and equally necessary to
it's total well-being. (Idiot!)


There we may differ a tiny bit. I don't agree with docking for dogs, but
we have over bred some versions to where they literally break their tails
and it may have to be done later to give them ability if it can't be
reset. You may find a search on 'cold tail' useful there. Our Cash-pup
broke his tail before we got him and had an incident about 1 year after
we got him but it healed. If it happens again, we may have to dock him to
remove the pain if he gets an unmovable tail hanging down. He's not your
traditional 'dock tail' sort so it isnt for cosmetics. Imagine part of
your spine broken then hanging helplessly down and hurting all the time.
Thats when 'docking' is medical. It removes the weight hanging down that
they *cant* do anything about except feel pain from.

So, my stance (forgive me if messed attributes up) is declawing is never
needed or good, but docking a dog *may* sometimes be a medical need.


Thank you..I think declawing is wrong for any reason and that's the last I
am saying on the subject....it makes me sick!!! And yes, Joe is an
idiot!!!
Kyla


Unilaterally claiming docking of a dog is 'bad' can be the same. I would
not do it just based on breed, but it is possible to save *Cash-pup* pain,
we may have to in the future. Imagine a broken piece of your spine you cant
lift or wag that hurts all the time and you can see where this can be a
medical issue. They sometimes need to dock a cats tail over the same.

Buddy (cat) had to be 'docked'. He was hit by a car and I adopted him off
the humane society in something like 1981. I was told his tail was crushed
beyond repair except the stub of about 2 inches.

Cash-pup has a broken tail but it causes no pain. If he re-breaks it, he
will need pain meds and docking to reduce his pain. This is a medical
procedure in this case, not cosmetic. Sad smile, he's a mixed breed but
looks more beagle and you don't doc beagles normally. I'm hoping he never
needs it as he's happier as nature made him.

  #6  
Old July 22nd 10, 12:33 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes,rec.pets.cats.health+behav
Bill Graham
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,065
Default Declawing


"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote in message
m...


cshenk wrote:


My attributes may be wrong (sue me). I have lived with 2 declawed and 2
normals at the same time. Fast I noted front declaw alone leads to more
hissing and defence becomes BITING which leads to vet due to puncture
wounds, rare in clawed kitties.


I suspect that may be largely a matter of the individual cat's
temperament. It's Melisande (the cat with all her claws) who tends to
bite, often for no discernible reason. Cendrillon, on the other hand, has
never bitten me - and come to think of it, I don't remember ever hearing
her hiss! Of course, my observations involve only one cat that has been
declawed, and anyone who has ever lived with cats knows that there is NO
statement beginning with "All cats...." that does not have a multitude of
exceptions. My two seem very closely bonded - they groom each other
affectionately, sleep together on my bed at night, and most of their
"aggressive" games are clearly play.


Biting transmits diseases such as FIV, but scratching with front claws
doesn't......Yet another reason to discourage declawing cats.......

  #7  
Old July 25th 10, 01:22 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes,rec.pets.cats.health+behav,free.UseNet
John Doe
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 381
Default Declawing

"cshenk" cshenk1 cox.net wrote:

"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote
John Doe wrote:


John Doe almost looks like a spammer to me but hard to tell.


BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!

Where did that silliness come from?
In fact, I am a spammer's worst (private) enemy.
--


















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  #8  
Old July 25th 10, 01:23 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes,rec.pets.cats.health+behav,free.UseNet
John Doe
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 381
Default Declawing

"Kyla =^..^=" klya YOOhoo.not wrote:

"cshenk"
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote
John Doe wrote:


John Doe almost looks like a spammer to me but hard to tell.


I agree


lol
silly troll
--























Have you ever actually OBSERVED a declawed cat in action?


I have not, and I never will except maybe by chance. But I have this
thing called COMMON SENSE


Really? Your posts certainly do not display much of it!


I rescued 2 cats I didnt want and was afraid to take. The owner was
having them put to sleep as his new wife developed an 'allergy' when
pregnant. I think her 'allergy' was cleaning the cat litter so he had to
do it. (There are reasons why pregnant humans shouldn't do that for a
bit). The guy wanted to review my home to be sure I was 'suitable for his
beloved kitties'. AKA spick and span clean and all that.

I cleaned up, and took the kitties adding them to a 2 cat existing
household and i have *never* declawed a cat. I learned instead how to
train them to acceptable behavior.

These 2 new kitties minced in with pain. A sad story and a rather ugly
one.

I took them to my vet right away as even for declawed cats, this was very
abnormal. Vet took all the info I had on the guy and tried to take him to
court for animal abuse. Although he could not 'prove' it, he suspected
the guy did the job himself with toenail clippers. All 4 paws on both of
them.

We never got the guy and the vet did me the best cut rare deal of 100$ a
foot for the 2 of them that he could (this was cost of materials and meds
only) to make it so they could walk pain-free.

I admit this is a radical case but I am just ever so much into not
declawing since that.

Not "superficial" at all, since I have actually LIVED with a declawed
cat, and you admit you have not! (Are you REALLY as ignorant as you make
yourself appear to be?)


My attributes may be wrong (sue me). I have lived with 2 declawed and 2
normals at the same time. Fast I noted front declaw alone leads to more
hissing and defence becomes BITING which leads to vet due to puncture
wounds, rare in clawed kitties.

And what the **** does a dog's tail have to do with a cat's claws?


Nice words Joe :/

It's an integral part of the dog's anatomy, and equally necessary to it's
total well-being. (Idiot!)


There we may differ a tiny bit. I don't agree with docking for dogs, but
we have over bred some versions to where they literally break their tails
and it may have to be done later to give them ability if it can't be
reset. You may find a search on 'cold tail' useful there. Our Cash-pup
broke his tail before we got him and had an incident about 1 year after we
got him but it healed. If it happens again, we may have to dock him to
remove the pain if he gets an unmovable tail hanging down. He's not your
traditional 'dock tail' sort so it isnt for cosmetics. Imagine part of
your spine broken then hanging helplessly down and hurting all the time.
Thats when 'docking' is medical. It removes the weight hanging down that
they *cant* do anything about except feel pain from.

So, my stance (forgive me if messed attributes up) is declawing is never
needed or good, but docking a dog *may* sometimes be a medical need.


Thank you..I think declawing is wrong for any reason and that's the last I
am saying on the subject....it makes me sick!!! And yes, Joe is an idiot!!!
Kyla






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  #9  
Old July 25th 10, 01:31 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes,rec.pets.cats.health+behav
John Doe
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 381
Default Declawing

"cshenk" wrote:

"Kyla =^..^=" wrote
"cshenk"
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote
John Doe wrote:


John Doe almost looks like a spammer to me but hard to tell.


I agree


Hard to tell.


Technically speaking... Trying to tell whether anyone is a spammer
is impossible unless you are their ISP. You cannot tell by a
particular identification, you know, people can use multiple IDs.

But why on earth (really comical to me) would you think that I am
a spammer? Talk about lamebrain observations...

And what the **** does a dog's tail have to do with a cat's
claws?


Nice words Joe :/


He's not relating a potential medical need with a 'gee it would
be nice it they cant scratch the couch'.


I guess my meaning is not obvious, but it really should be IMO.
You run into people who do not know their ass from a hole in the
ground on the Internet.

I am not talking about your needs, I am talking about the animal.

A cat uses its claws for practically everything. A dog uses its
tail for wagging. So what the **** does clipping a dog's tail have
to do with removing a cat's claws?
  #10  
Old July 25th 10, 01:43 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes,rec.pets.cats.health+behav,free.usenet
John Doe
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 381
Default Declawing

"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" evgmsop earthlink.net wrote:

John Doe wrote:
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" evgmsop earthlink.net wrote:
John Doe wrote:


Cats use their claws for practically everything they do, not
just for self-defense. Cats use their claws for hunting,
playing, exercise, soft defense, and for getting from here to
there.


She still has TOES, after all -


The idea that a cat's toes are comparable to a cat's claws is
just silly.


they only amputate the first joint in the declawing process.
People might not be very happy to lose the first joints of
their fingers, either, but as amputees, they'd adjust - their
hands and the remains of the fingers (including the opposable
thumb) would still be there.


There is no comparison between a cat's claw and an individual
joint of a human finger.


Why not?


Cats do not use their joints to hang on to anything, they use
their claws. Cats use their claws unlike anything we use our
individual joints for. Removing a cat's claw is is not at all like
removing just the first joint of a human finger, it is like
removing the entire finger. A gymnast cannot grab onto a crossbar
with the first joint of his finger, he has to use the whole
finger. A cat cannot grab onto a tree (or an enemy, or prey, or a
ball, or a climbing post) without claws.

Declawing a cat involves just that amputation?


Yes, Moron, but I am talking about the effect.

I don't believe in docking dogs' tails, either, but even
tail-less they manage to "wag".


And what the **** does a dog's tail have to do with a cat's
claws?


It's an integral part of the dog's anatomy, and equally
necessary to it's total well-being. (Idiot!)


Says a Moron who does not know the difference in function and
importance between a cat's claws and a dog's tail.
--
























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