CRF cat not eating

Gibbs is an 18 year old orange striped cat. She was diagnosed with renal
failure about
1 1/2 years ago. The big problem now is loss of appetite. When she was
first diagnosed, the vet prescribed pepcid. She hadn't lost weight and was
eating normally. The vet prescribed it as a preventative. After being on
pepcid for a week, she stopped eating. We stopped the pepcid and she
resumed eating, but not as much as she had in the past. The vet started her
on mirtazapine. The mirtazapine worked great for the last year. She even
became a lap cat, and much more cuddly, as a side effect of the mirtazapine.
But lately she stopped eating, completely. She went from 9 pounds to 6
pounds. The vet did blood tests. The vet also started her on daily
subcutaneous fluids, potassium, B complex, and Tapazole. She has very mild
hyperthyroid. The vet is hoping her appetite will return when the tapazole
has had a chance to work.

Any suggestions on how to get some food down her? She was eating Hills K/D
very happily, but now sniffs and walks away from that. Actually, she sniffs
and walks away from most foods. I have been reading about stomach acid
occurring in cats with CRF. I'd really like to try the pepcid again, but
we're afraid it will make things worse, like it did last year. What can we
do to her get to eat?

On Sat, 23 Oct 2010 00:09:49 -0500, "Sara Jane"
wrote:

Gibbs is an 18 year old orange striped cat. She was diagnosed with renal
failure about
1 1/2 years ago. The big problem now is loss of appetite. When she was
first diagnosed, the vet prescribed pepcid. She hadn't lost weight and was
eating normally. The vet prescribed it as a preventative. After being on
pepcid for a week, she stopped eating. We stopped the pepcid and she
resumed eating, but not as much as she had in the past. The vet started her
on mirtazapine. The mirtazapine worked great for the last year. She even
became a lap cat, and much more cuddly, as a side effect of the mirtazapine.
But lately she stopped eating, completely. She went from 9 pounds to 6
pounds. The vet did blood tests. The vet also started her on daily
subcutaneous fluids, potassium, B complex, and Tapazole. She has very mild
hyperthyroid. The vet is hoping her appetite will return when the tapazole
has had a chance to work.

Any suggestions on how to get some food down her? She was eating Hills K/D
very happily, but now sniffs and walks away from that. Actually, she sniffs
and walks away from most foods. I have been reading about stomach acid
occurring in cats with CRF. I'd really like to try the pepcid again, but
we're afraid it will make things worse, like it did last year. What can we
do to her get to eat?


When a cat has lost THAT much weight, you need her to
something...anything...to prevent further weight loss.

When I had an older cat that wouldn't eat, pouring the water from cans
of tuna worked for her.

I ate a LOT of tuna...but my cat was eating.

Hyperthyroidism actually increases appetite in most cats, as it speeds
up the metabolism.

A good part of the wight loss is likely due to the hyperthyroidism...and
not eating, of course.

My cat used to really like sardines as a treat. They are MUCH better for
cats than tuna is, because they are near the bottom of the food chain:
MUCH less mercury and other nasty stuff in it.

You could try mixing some sardine in with canned food.

Get a clean glass jar, put the sardine in it, and use a fork to break
the fishies into little bits.

Then, mix in some canned food; it should be AT LEAST 50% cat food, to
ensure your cat gets at least most of the nutrients she needs.

But, the main thing is to get her to eat.

Be aware that the MAIN side effect of Tapezole in nausea.

I has a terrible time getting my cat so she could take it.

On her regulars dosage, she started vomiting pretty much EVERYTHING, on
day three.

So, I started her on a very low dose, and very gradually increased it
over a period of almost a month.

Good luck with your cat; it can become very difficult to manage their
illnesses, when they have multiple health problems.

Suddenly, without warning, Sara Jane exclaimed (10/23/2010 1:09 AM):
Gibbs is an 18 year old orange striped cat. She was diagnosed with renal
failure about
1 1/2 years ago. The big problem now is loss of appetite. When she was
first diagnosed, the vet prescribed pepcid. She hadn't lost weight and was
eating normally. The vet prescribed it as a preventative. After being on
pepcid for a week, she stopped eating. We stopped the pepcid and she
resumed eating, but not as much as she had in the past. The vet started her
on mirtazapine. The mirtazapine worked great for the last year. She even
became a lap cat, and much more cuddly, as a side effect of the mirtazapine.
But lately she stopped eating, completely. She went from 9 pounds to 6
pounds. The vet did blood tests. The vet also started her on daily
subcutaneous fluids, potassium, B complex, and Tapazole. She has very mild
hyperthyroid. The vet is hoping her appetite will return when the tapazole
has had a chance to work.

Any suggestions on how to get some food down her? She was eating Hills K/D
very happily, but now sniffs and walks away from that. Actually, she sniffs
and walks away from most foods. I have been reading about stomach acid
occurring in cats with CRF. I'd really like to try the pepcid again, but
we're afraid it will make things worse, like it did last year. What can we
do to her get to eat?



I feel your pain. My 14 year old cat also has multiple health problems,
and keeping her eating enough has been a battle for years.

I would like to add to the previous suggestion - the water/oil from
canned salmon also works - better than tuna water for my cat!

Just try anything, any kind of food at all. My cat is traditionally a
fussy eater as well. I wish I could feed her with high quality foods
all the time, but the only way to keep weight on her is to feed her
fancy feast and 9-Lives (yea, that's my Junk Food Junkie).

At the fancy pet food store, I also found a bag of freeze-dried raw food
medallions. Meep loves the chicken ones. I crumble one up on her food
each night. It is pretty expensive stuff but she eats that every time.
Comes in a bag, doesn't require refrigeration. Has both a dog and a
cat on the package, but I can't think of the name.

We did discover recently that a lot of her refusal to eat was pain.
She's on Tramodol now and at a better weight than she has been in YEARS.

FWIW, Pepcid didn't work for Meep either.

Good luck, it's hard to see a pet you've had for a long time not doing well.

jmc

"Sara Jane" wrote:

Any suggestions on how to get some food down her?

First, with the amount of weight she has lost, she almost certainly has
hepatic lipidosis. Was that part of her diagnosis?

Among her blood tests was the spec fPl test for pancreatitis included?
If that is part of the problem, pain medication (buprenorphine) will be
important.

She appears to be nauseous, so she won't eat until that is addressed.
The best anti-nausea medications are ondansetron (Zofran), dolasetron
(Anzamet), and maropitant (Cerenia). Talk with your vet about these.

At this stage, she probably should have a feeding tube placed. Don't
let that scare you. After the initial learning period, most people who
have done both find maintaining and using the feeding tube far easier
and much more successful than syringe feeding.

Another trial with the Pepcid is probably a good idea. That she got
worse while taking it last year may have been coincidence. But that
will have to wait until the nausea is addressed.

If you know about Yahoo groups or are willing to learn, I recommend the
Feline Assisted Feeding group as the best place for you to get further
information about handling Gibbs' condition.
--

Wayne M.

Thank you for all your suggestions.
Gibbs was drinking tuna water and sardine water, but now walks away from
that.
She ate one can (3ounces) of Natural Cat, then wouldn't eat any more. Last
night she ate 3 ounces of Friskies canned Mariner Catch. At least she is
eating a bit but not enough to maintain her weight. The vet told me to try
any kind of food, suggested "Appetizers". Gibbs sniffed Appetizers in a few
different flavors, and walked away from each one.
I am fine with trying any kind of cat food, even the junk food kinds. That's
what the vet suggested, for now. But I've been reading that the junk food
can make the nausea worse in cats with CRF. Her numbers aren't that bad,
but she has always reacted strongly to the smallest of changes. I am crazed
and worried, and just want to do the right thing. What do you think?

What are medallions? Do you cook them or just give them raw? I don't want
to risk the illnesses from raw food.

"jmc" wrote in message
...
Suddenly, without warning, Sara Jane exclaimed (10/23/2010 1:09 AM):
Gibbs is an 18 year old orange striped cat. She was diagnosed with
renal
failure about
1 1/2 years ago. The big problem now is loss of appetite. When she was
first diagnosed, the vet prescribed pepcid. She hadn't lost weight and
was
eating normally. The vet prescribed it as a preventative. After being
on
pepcid for a week, she stopped eating. We stopped the pepcid and she
resumed eating, but not as much as she had in the past. The vet started
her
on mirtazapine. The mirtazapine worked great for the last year. She
even
became a lap cat, and much more cuddly, as a side effect of the
mirtazapine.
But lately she stopped eating, completely. She went from 9 pounds to 6
pounds. The vet did blood tests. The vet also started her on daily
subcutaneous fluids, potassium, B complex, and Tapazole. She has very
mild
hyperthyroid. The vet is hoping her appetite will return when the
tapazole
has had a chance to work.

Any suggestions on how to get some food down her? She was eating Hills
K/D
very happily, but now sniffs and walks away from that. Actually, she
sniffs
and walks away from most foods. I have been reading about stomach acid
occurring in cats with CRF. I'd really like to try the pepcid again,
but
we're afraid it will make things worse, like it did last year. What can
we
do to her get to eat?



I feel your pain. My 14 year old cat also has multiple health problems,
and keeping her eating enough has been a battle for years.

I would like to add to the previous suggestion - the water/oil from
canned salmon also works - better than tuna water for my cat!

Just try anything, any kind of food at all. My cat is traditionally a
fussy eater as well. I wish I could feed her with high quality foods
all the time, but the only way to keep weight on her is to feed her
fancy feast and 9-Lives (yea, that's my Junk Food Junkie).

At the fancy pet food store, I also found a bag of freeze-dried raw food
medallions. Meep loves the chicken ones. I crumble one up on her food
each night. It is pretty expensive stuff but she eats that every time.
Comes in a bag, doesn't require refrigeration. Has both a dog and a
cat on the package, but I can't think of the name.

We did discover recently that a lot of her refusal to eat was pain.
She's on Tramodol now and at a better weight than she has been in YEARS.

FWIW, Pepcid didn't work for Meep either.

Good luck, it's hard to see a pet you've had for a long time not doing
well.

jmc

"Wayne Mitchell"
First, with the amount of weight she has lost, she almost certainly has
hepatic lipidosis. Was that part of her diagnosis?
No, the vet said her liver labs are all normal.

Among her blood tests was the spec fPl test for pancreatitis included?
If that is part of the problem, pain medication (buprenorphine) will be
No, that was not tested.

She appears to be nauseous, so she won't eat until that is addressed.
The best anti-nausea medications are ondansetron (Zofran), dolasetron
(Anzamet), and maropitant (Cerenia). Talk with your vet about these.
I asked the vet about nausea drugs and she replied that she hopes the
tapazole will change that. I will ask her again. But she also just started
my cat on potassium pill, and vitamin B complex, and Gibbs is already on
mirtazpine. Gibbs can smell or taste a drug from a mile away, and won't eat
any food that has it. Her pills have to be given in a Pill Pocket, placed in
the back of her mouth. Giving those pills is a daily battle and there's no
more room in the pill pocket, even when I squish it around.

At this stage, she probably should have a feeding tube placed.
Why wouldn't the vet have suggested that?
Gibbs hates the subcutaneous fluids, has to be held down. For a cat
who has lost half of her total weight ( she used to be 11 pounds), she puts
up a strong battle. I can't imagine tube feeding Gibbs. I don't think
she'd allow it.

Another trial with the Pepcid is probably a good idea. That she got
worse while taking it last year may have been coincidence. But that
will have to wait until the nausea is addressed.
I've read that pepcid can help with an acid stomach, and that the acid
stomach can cause nausea. I feel lost. Do we ask the vet for something to
substitute for pepcid, or one of those antinausea drugs you mentioned?

If you know about Yahoo groups or are willing to learn, I recommend the
Feline Assisted Feeding group as the best place for you to get further
information about handling Gibbs' condition.
I'll check that group out.

Thank you for all of your suggestions.

I recommend Tanya's website for anything CRF related:

http://www.felinecrf.org/index.htm

There is a companion yahoo group:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tanyas-crf-support/

It's the best site out there for this disease. I've shared quite a but with
my vet. Helen is a wealth of knowledge and has done her research.

Pepcid did nothing for Sebastian. He does better on Zantac. He doesn't
always want to eat so I have to assist feed him. I also keep babyfood, dry
food, fancy feast on hand to feed him. I give him whatever he wants. The
most important thing is to get food down Gibbs.

Zantac will help with the anti-nausea. Some cats do well with slippery elm.
Sebastian has been on Cerenia (off label) and is not on Ondansetron for his
nausea.

They do get used to the fluids. I used to have to hold Sebastian in place.
Now he lies down for them on a little blanket. Are you warming yours before
you give it to Gibbs? That helps a lot.

What are Gibbs' creatinine and BUN values?

It does get easier!

Stacey

"Sara Jane" wrote in message
...
"Wayne Mitchell"
First, with the amount of weight she has lost, she almost certainly has
hepatic lipidosis. Was that part of her diagnosis?
No, the vet said her liver labs are all normal.

Among her blood tests was the spec fPl test for pancreatitis included?
If that is part of the problem, pain medication (buprenorphine) will be
No, that was not tested.

She appears to be nauseous, so she won't eat until that is addressed.
The best anti-nausea medications are ondansetron (Zofran), dolasetron
(Anzamet), and maropitant (Cerenia). Talk with your vet about these.
I asked the vet about nausea drugs and she replied that she hopes the
tapazole will change that. I will ask her again. But she also just started
my cat on potassium pill, and vitamin B complex, and Gibbs is already on
mirtazpine. Gibbs can smell or taste a drug from a mile away, and won't
eat
any food that has it. Her pills have to be given in a Pill Pocket, placed
in
the back of her mouth. Giving those pills is a daily battle and there's no
more room in the pill pocket, even when I squish it around.

At this stage, she probably should have a feeding tube placed.
Why wouldn't the vet have suggested that?
Gibbs hates the subcutaneous fluids, has to be held down. For a cat
who has lost half of her total weight ( she used to be 11 pounds), she
puts
up a strong battle. I can't imagine tube feeding Gibbs. I don't think
she'd allow it.

Another trial with the Pepcid is probably a good idea. That she got
worse while taking it last year may have been coincidence. But that
will have to wait until the nausea is addressed.
I've read that pepcid can help with an acid stomach, and that the acid
stomach can cause nausea. I feel lost. Do we ask the vet for something
to
substitute for pepcid, or one of those antinausea drugs you mentioned?

If you know about Yahoo groups or are willing to learn, I recommend the
Feline Assisted Feeding group as the best place for you to get further
information about handling Gibbs' condition.
I'll check that group out.

Thank you for all of your suggestions.

Zantac worked well for a cat? I'll ask the vet. Thank you.
What does "assist feed" mean?
She was doing so well on just Hills K/D and mirtazpine, for about 15 months
after diagnosis.

Yes, I'm warming the fluids to warm wrist temperature.
I found those two websites and joined the yahoo group. Slippery Elm for
cats is an interesting thought, since it's used in teas made to calm a sore
throat. I'll look for that information.

I can't get to the lab values today; will post them tomorrow. they're
abnormal but not horrible. Gibbs is very sensitive to small changes, always
has been.

thank you!

"Stacey" wrote in message
m...
I recommend Tanya's website for anything CRF related:

http://www.felinecrf.org/index.htm

There is a companion yahoo group:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tanyas-crf-support/

It's the best site out there for this disease. I've shared quite a but
with
my vet. Helen is a wealth of knowledge and has done her research.

Pepcid did nothing for Sebastian. He does better on Zantac. He doesn't
always want to eat so I have to assist feed him. I also keep babyfood, dry
food, fancy feast on hand to feed him. I give him whatever he wants. The
most important thing is to get food down Gibbs.

Zantac will help with the anti-nausea. Some cats do well with slippery
elm.
Sebastian has been on Cerenia (off label) and is not on Ondansetron for
his
nausea.

They do get used to the fluids. I used to have to hold Sebastian in place.
Now he lies down for them on a little blanket. Are you warming yours
before
you give it to Gibbs? That helps a lot.

What are Gibbs' creatinine and BUN values?

It does get easier!

Stacey

"Sara Jane" wrote in message
...
"Wayne Mitchell"
First, with the amount of weight she has lost, she almost certainly has
hepatic lipidosis. Was that part of her diagnosis?
No, the vet said her liver labs are all normal.

Among her blood tests was the spec fPl test for pancreatitis included?
If that is part of the problem, pain medication (buprenorphine) will be
No, that was not tested.

She appears to be nauseous, so she won't eat until that is addressed.
The best anti-nausea medications are ondansetron (Zofran), dolasetron
(Anzamet), and maropitant (Cerenia). Talk with your vet about these.
I asked the vet about nausea drugs and she replied that she hopes the
tapazole will change that. I will ask her again. But she also just
started
my cat on potassium pill, and vitamin B complex, and Gibbs is already on
mirtazpine. Gibbs can smell or taste a drug from a mile away, and won't
eat
any food that has it. Her pills have to be given in a Pill Pocket,
placed
in
the back of her mouth. Giving those pills is a daily battle and there's
no
more room in the pill pocket, even when I squish it around.

At this stage, she probably should have a feeding tube placed.
Why wouldn't the vet have suggested that?
Gibbs hates the subcutaneous fluids, has to be held down. For a cat
who has lost half of her total weight ( she used to be 11 pounds), she
puts
up a strong battle. I can't imagine tube feeding Gibbs. I don't think
she'd allow it.

Another trial with the Pepcid is probably a good idea. That she got
worse while taking it last year may have been coincidence. But that
will have to wait until the nausea is addressed.
I've read that pepcid can help with an acid stomach, and that the
acid
stomach can cause nausea. I feel lost. Do we ask the vet for something
to
substitute for pepcid, or one of those antinausea drugs you mentioned?

If you know about Yahoo groups or are willing to learn, I recommend the
Feline Assisted Feeding group as the best place for you to get further
information about handling Gibbs' condition.
I'll check that group out.

Thank you for all of your suggestions.

Yes. I cut up Zantac75 into 7 or so small pieces. I give it to Sebastian
about an hour before each meal and before going to bed. I learned about it
on Tanya's site and cleared it with my vet. It's in the same family as
Pepcid but for some reason it works better than Pepcid on some cats.

I dunk the fluids in a sink of hot water to warm it up. Sebastian also gets
Fancy Feast while the fluids are going in. It's considered "cat crack" but
it's one of those things cats will eat even if they don't feel well. He eats
about 1/2 a can on his own.

Sometimes things just change. Sebastian stopped eating EVO. He would eat
Newman's own and Instinct. Now it's back to EVO. You might have to try a
range of foods in order to find what Gibbs will eat.

Assist feed is a nicer term than force feed. I usually have to spoon feed
Sebastian every meal. I use a spoon to put the food in his mouth, much like
feeding a baby.

Stacey

"Sara Jane" wrote in message
...
Zantac worked well for a cat? I'll ask the vet. Thank you.
What does "assist feed" mean?
She was doing so well on just Hills K/D and mirtazpine, for about 15
months
after diagnosis.

Yes, I'm warming the fluids to warm wrist temperature.
I found those two websites and joined the yahoo group. Slippery Elm for
cats is an interesting thought, since it's used in teas made to calm a
sore
throat. I'll look for that information.

I can't get to the lab values today; will post them tomorrow. they're
abnormal but not horrible. Gibbs is very sensitive to small changes,
always
has been.

thank you!

"Stacey" wrote in message
m...
I recommend Tanya's website for anything CRF related:

http://www.felinecrf.org/index.htm

There is a companion yahoo group:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tanyas-crf-support/

It's the best site out there for this disease. I've shared quite a but
with
my vet. Helen is a wealth of knowledge and has done her research.

Pepcid did nothing for Sebastian. He does better on Zantac. He doesn't
always want to eat so I have to assist feed him. I also keep babyfood,
dry
food, fancy feast on hand to feed him. I give him whatever he wants. The
most important thing is to get food down Gibbs.

Zantac will help with the anti-nausea. Some cats do well with slippery
elm.
Sebastian has been on Cerenia (off label) and is not on Ondansetron for
his
nausea.

They do get used to the fluids. I used to have to hold Sebastian in
place.
Now he lies down for them on a little blanket. Are you warming yours
before
you give it to Gibbs? That helps a lot.

What are Gibbs' creatinine and BUN values?

It does get easier!

Stacey

"Sara Jane" wrote in message
...
"Wayne Mitchell"
First, with the amount of weight she has lost, she almost certainly
has
hepatic lipidosis. Was that part of her diagnosis?
No, the vet said her liver labs are all normal.

Among her blood tests was the spec fPl test for pancreatitis included?
If that is part of the problem, pain medication (buprenorphine) will
be
No, that was not tested.

She appears to be nauseous, so she won't eat until that is addressed.
The best anti-nausea medications are ondansetron (Zofran), dolasetron
(Anzamet), and maropitant (Cerenia). Talk with your vet about these.
I asked the vet about nausea drugs and she replied that she hopes the
tapazole will change that. I will ask her again. But she also just
started
my cat on potassium pill, and vitamin B complex, and Gibbs is already
on
mirtazpine. Gibbs can smell or taste a drug from a mile away, and
won't
eat
any food that has it. Her pills have to be given in a Pill Pocket,
placed
in
the back of her mouth. Giving those pills is a daily battle and there's
no
more room in the pill pocket, even when I squish it around.

At this stage, she probably should have a feeding tube placed.
Why wouldn't the vet have suggested that?
Gibbs hates the subcutaneous fluids, has to be held down. For a
cat
who has lost half of her total weight ( she used to be 11 pounds), she
puts
up a strong battle. I can't imagine tube feeding Gibbs. I don't think
she'd allow it.

Another trial with the Pepcid is probably a good idea. That she got
worse while taking it last year may have been coincidence. But that
will have to wait until the nausea is addressed.
I've read that pepcid can help with an acid stomach, and that the
acid
stomach can cause nausea. I feel lost. Do we ask the vet for
something
to
substitute for pepcid, or one of those antinausea drugs you mentioned?

If you know about Yahoo groups or are willing to learn, I recommend
the
Feline Assisted Feeding group as the best place for you to get further
information about handling Gibbs' condition.
I'll check that group out.

Thank you for all of your suggestions.

"Sara Jane" wrote:

the vet said her liver labs are all normal.

That's lucky. To have a cat lose as much weight as she has so fast and
not get FHL is unusual.


Gibbs can smell or taste a drug from a mile away, and won't eat
any food that has it. Her pills have to be given in a Pill Pocket, placed in
the back of her mouth. Giving those pills is a daily battle

That's one of the things that becomes easier with a feeding tube.


Why wouldn't the vet have suggested that?

He may feel that Gibbs is not a good candidate for the general
anesthesia required to install an esophageal tube, or he may just feel
that you aren't yet at that point. For myself, with the weight she has
lost, I would opt for the tube if possible because you have to be very
sure of getting enough food into her so she doesn't lose any more.


Gibbs hates the subcutaneous fluids, has to be held down. For a cat
who has lost half of her total weight ( she used to be 11 pounds), she puts
up a strong battle. I can't imagine tube feeding Gibbs. I don't think
she'd allow it.

I haven't actually done it myself, and I gather that it takes a few days
of adjustment, but most cats seem settle to it quite readily. From what
I understand, it's certainly a lot easier than giving sub-q fluids.


I've read that pepcid can help with an acid stomach, and that the acid
stomach can cause nausea. I feel lost. Do we ask the vet for something to
substitute for pepcid, or one of those antinausea drugs you mentioned?

If she doesn't have liver damage and the nausea is entirely due to
excess acid, then your vet should be happy to put her back on an antacid
-- perhaps try the Zantac that Stacey suggested, since you're not sure
about the Pepcid. But you may need a true anti-nausea med in addition.
--

Wayne M.