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#61
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What's in pet food?
On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 00:52:51 +0100, tidbit wrote:
On 28/06/2011 21:21, Goo wrote: I did not benefit by being born. Once I *was* born, I was in a position to receive benefits, but being born itself was not a benefit. Thank you for giving me your time to explain so clearly my mistake. We can only set the peg back to the instant where we were conceived. Obviously, before that moment, we did not exist and could not receive anything. Yet you clearly appear to be benefitting from your existence whether the conception of your zygote was a benefit to you or not. What you need to do, because Goo never could, is explain WHAT about your pre-existence you believe is preventing you from benefitting from the existence you clearly appear to be benefitting from now, and HOW you think it's preventing you. If you can never do that, as Goo and his boy have not been able to do, then we'll be left with you appearing to benefit and no reason to believe you're not benefitting. The same is true for the billions of other creatures who appear to be benefitting, as well as the billions who appear to have benefitted in the past. Goo and "Dutch" both still appear to be benefitting, regardless of anything to do with their pre-existence. Here's something for you and the Goober to try: Try explaining how the pre-existence of future livestock animals now, is going to prevent them from benefitting from their existence when they do exist in the future. Go: .. . . Clearly - without any doubt whatever - he doesn't care about animal welfare, their well-being. Look carefully at that second one, in which he says that even if all the animals he ate had terrible lies, he would just ignore their suffering and go on eating them. You certainly claim to do that Goo: "I eat meat." - Goo "the nutritionally unnecessary choice deliberately to kill an animal ALWAYS causes a moral harm greater in magnitude than . . . the moral "benefit" realized by the animal in existing at all" - Goo ""giving them life" does NOT mitigate the wrongness of their deaths" - Goo "the moral harm caused by killing them is greater in magnitude than ANY benefit they might derive from "decent lives" - Goo "no matter how "decent" the conditions are, the deliberate killing of the animals erases all of it." - Goo |
#62
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What's in pet food?
On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 19:50:46 +0100, tidbit wrote:
On 29/06/2011 18:24, Goo wrote: In which of the numerous newsgroups that ****wit spammed are you following this thread? a.animal.ethics.vegetarian. I picked it up in r.pets.dogs.health and followed it to there where Rudy Canoza usually posts from. I subscribed to it just over a week ago. dh@ usually posts from there too. "Rudy" and "George" are both Goo. In case you were unaware, Goo has pretended to be all of the following "different" people and mo Jonathan Ball Citizen Benfez Wilson Woods Radical Moderate Bingo Edward George Bill Fred Mystery Poster Merlin the dog Bob the dog elvira Dieter "Dieter " Abner Hale Roger Whitaker ****tard Apoo Ted Bell Jay Santos Rudy Canoza Trappist Leif Erikson S. Maizlich SlipperySlope Eden Sylvia Stevens chico chupacabra S. Maizlich T. Howard Pines, Jr. George Plimpton Chrissy Degeer Mauricio Rodriguez, Nihada Tutic and Tim Goss Pete Crayne, Dare Adelekan, Cathy Demkiw, and about 16 others |
#63
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What's in pet food?
****wit David Harrison spammed:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 19:50:46 +0100, wrote: On 29/06/2011 18:24, George Plimpton wrote: In which of the numerous newsgroups that ****wit spammed are you following this thread? a.animal.ethics.vegetarian. I picked it up in r.pets.dogs.health and followed it to there where Rudy Canoza usually posts from. I subscribed to it just over a week ago. dh@ usually posts from there too. [****wit spam] Coming into existence is not a benefit, ****wit. |
#64
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What's in pet food?
On 6/30/2011 2:46 PM, dh@. wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 21:24:04 +0100, wrote: On 29/06/2011 23:34, dh@. wrote: On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 19:50:46 +0100, wrote: On 29/06/2011 18:24, Goo wrote: In which of the numerous newsgroups that ****wit spammed are you following this thread? a.animal.ethics.vegetarian. I picked it up in r.pets.dogs.health and followed it to there where Rudy Canoza usually posts from. I subscribed to it just over a week ago. dh@ usually posts from there too. "Rudy" and "George" are both You. You are the OP who started this thread under the name Rudy Canoza. I've just checked the headers. It was an inside "joke" directed at George, not something intended to confuse people like yourself. Bull****, ****wit. You were trying to mislead. |
#65
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What's in pet food?
On 6/30/2011 2:56 PM, dh@. wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 20:57:18 +0100, wrote: On 29/06/2011 23:33, dh@. wrote: On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 00:52:51 +0100, wrote: On 28/06/2011 21:21, Goo wrote: I did not benefit by being born. Once I *was* born, I was in a position to receive benefits, but being born itself was not a benefit. Thank you for giving me your time to explain so clearly my mistake. We can only set the peg back to the instant where we were conceived. Obviously, before that moment, we did not exist and could not receive anything. Yet you clearly appear to be benefitting from your existence whether the conception of your zygote was a benefit to you or not. I do benefit from my existence That's only true if you would benefit just as well if you did not exist. He does not benefit from his existence, as he has clearly seen. from the advantages I was given while growing up. You benefitted from your existence then too Nope - he clearly understands, ****wit, that existence itself is *NEVER* a benefit. I didn't benefit from starting to exist because I had no welfare before Even though you only seem able to appreciate that you benefitted while you were growing up He understands full well that existence is *never* a benefit, ****wit - it cannot be for reasons that everyone understands. It is the things that occur once existence is established that may or may not be benefits - *never* existence itself. then to gain anything. What you need to do, because Goo never could, is explain WHAT about your pre-existence you believe is preventing you from benefitting from the existence you clearly appear to be benefitting from now, and HOW you think it's preventing you. There is nothing about my pre-existence to prevent me benefiting from my existence now So you are benefitting from your existence No, he isn't - he has said he isn't benefiting from his existence itself. He isn't. because I didn't have a pre-existence to benefit from in the first place. Do you believe in pre-existence? I don't have a belief as to whether or not we experience multiple lives, but You believe in pre-existence - you are a religious nutcake. If you can never do that, as Goo and his boy have not been able to do, then we'll be left with you appearing to benefit and no reason to believe you're not benefitting. You still appear to be benefitting Nope - no one benefits from existence itself. The same is true for the billions of other creatures who appear to be benefitting, as well as the billions who appear to have benefitted in the past. Goo and "Dutch" both still appear to be benefitting, regardless of anything to do with their pre-existence. Here's something for you and the Goober to try: Try explaining how the pre-existence of future livestock animals now, is going to prevent them from benefitting from their existence when they do exist in the future. Go: . . . Clearly - without any doubt whatever - he doesn't care about animal welfare, their well-being. Look carefully at that second one, in which he says that even if all the animals he ate had terrible lies, he would just ignore their suffering and go on eating them. You certainly claim to do that "I eat meat." "the nutritionally unnecessary choice deliberately to kill an animal ALWAYS causes a moral harm greater in magnitude than . . . the moral "benefit" realized by the animal in existing at all" ""giving them life" does NOT mitigate the wrongness of their deaths" "the moral harm caused by killing them is greater in magnitude than ANY benefit they might derive from "decent lives" "no matter how "decent" the conditions are, the deliberate killing of the animals erases all of it." Nonsense. George believes it...or at least claims to believe it. I believe all of them. They're all true. Existence is not a benefit - it is a condition for benefits to be received, but it is not a benefit itself. |
#66
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What's in pet food?
On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 21:24:04 +0100, tidbit wrote:
On 29/06/2011 23:34, dh@. wrote: On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 19:50:46 +0100, wrote: On 29/06/2011 18:24, Goo wrote: In which of the numerous newsgroups that ****wit spammed are you following this thread? a.animal.ethics.vegetarian. I picked it up in r.pets.dogs.health and followed it to there where Rudy Canoza usually posts from. I subscribed to it just over a week ago. dh@ usually posts from there too. "Rudy" and "George" are both You. You are the OP who started this thread under the name Rudy Canoza. I've just checked the headers. It was an inside "joke" directed at Goo, not something intended to confuse people like yourself. Goo this - - - Goo that. How silly. I showed you the partial list of dozens of different people Goo has pretended to be, often more than one at a time praising and congratulating himselves. Since I'm not going to flatter him by referring to him as dozens of different people, one name needed to be developed with which to refer to the one individual who dishonestly was pretending to be many. That name is Goobernicus. Goo etc for short. |
#67
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What's in pet food?
On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 20:57:18 +0100, tidbit wrote:
On 29/06/2011 23:33, dh@. wrote: On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 00:52:51 +0100, wrote: On 28/06/2011 21:21, Goo wrote: I did not benefit by being born. Once I *was* born, I was in a position to receive benefits, but being born itself was not a benefit. Thank you for giving me your time to explain so clearly my mistake. We can only set the peg back to the instant where we were conceived. Obviously, before that moment, we did not exist and could not receive anything. Yet you clearly appear to be benefitting from your existence whether the conception of your zygote was a benefit to you or not. I do benefit from my existence That's only true if you would benefit just as well if you did not exist. from the advantages I was given while growing up. You benefitted from your existence then too, even if it makes you uncomfortable for some odd reason, and even if your zygote didn't litterally benefit from the act of conception. LOL...would you feel comfortable explaining to people that you don't believe you benefit from your existence because you don't believe your zygote benefitted from the act of its own conception? I didn't benefit from starting to exist because I had no welfare before Even though you only seem able to appreciate that you benefitted while you were growing up IF you can appreciate that much, you still appear to be benefitting. Whether you actually are still benefitting or not, you need to explain what it is about BEFORE that prevents you from benefitting now. Explain: then to gain anything. What you need to do, because Goo never could, is explain WHAT about your pre-existence you believe is preventing you from benefitting from the existence you clearly appear to be benefitting from now, and HOW you think it's preventing you. There is nothing about my pre-existence to prevent me benefiting from my existence now So you are benefitting from your existence as you clearly appear to be, and nothing about your pre-existence is preventing you from doing so as Goo fooled you into believing it is. because I didn't have a pre-existence to benefit from in the first place. Do you believe in pre-existence? I don't have a belief as to whether or not we experience multiple lives, but I consider the possibility that we do. Goo lies to people and tells them I have a belief, but of course I'd explain why if I did. Regardless of whether we do or not though billions of beings appear to benefit from lives of positive value. If you can never do that, as Goo and his boy have not been able to do, then we'll be left with you appearing to benefit and no reason to believe you're not benefitting. You still appear to be benefitting and so do billions of others. Don't let it bother you though. It's really a good thing :-) It's good that people like Goo can't make it impossible for any creature to benefit from a life of positive value, simply by claiming something about pre-existence prevents it. LOL... It's even more absurd to think no creature has ever benefitted from a life of positive value, than it is to think no livestock benefit from lives of positive value, though both ideas are extremely absurd. The same is true for the billions of other creatures who appear to be benefitting, as well as the billions who appear to have benefitted in the past. Goo and "Dutch" both still appear to be benefitting, regardless of anything to do with their pre-existence. Here's something for you and the Goober to try: Try explaining how the pre-existence of future livestock animals now, is going to prevent them from benefitting from their existence when they do exist in the future. Go: . . . Clearly - without any doubt whatever - he doesn't care about animal welfare, their well-being. Look carefully at that second one, in which he says that even if all the animals he ate had terrible lies, he would just ignore their suffering and go on eating them. You certainly claim to do that Goo: "I eat meat." - Goo "the nutritionally unnecessary choice deliberately to kill an animal ALWAYS causes a moral harm greater in magnitude than . . . the moral "benefit" realized by the animal in existing at all" - Goo ""giving them life" does NOT mitigate the wrongness of their deaths" - Goo "the moral harm caused by killing them is greater in magnitude than ANY benefit they might derive from "decent lives" - Goo "no matter how "decent" the conditions are, the deliberate killing of the animals erases all of it." - Goo Nonsense. Goo believes it...or at least claims to believe it. |
#68
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What's in pet food?
On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 12:52:50 -0700, "Dutch" wrote:
dh@. wrote in message ... On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 19:13:16 +0100, tidbit wrote: dh@ seems to think that animals benefit from being born to be used for meat Some do and some do not. Can you get that far? Goo can't. None do. "I have said repeatedly that I believe that many livestock animals have lives of positive value"- "Dutch" "The method of husbandry determines whether or not the life has positive or negative value to the animal." - "Dutch" "Every consumer choice promotes animals to experience life." - Dutch "we need to consider group 1, those animals who WILL exist under present rules" - "Dutch" "Because future animals who will inevitably be born are as important as ones which exist now. " - Dutch |
#69
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What's in pet food?
On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 12:52:19 -0700, "Dutch" wrote:
dh@. wrote It is appreciation for when AW is successful. Actually it's appreciation for more than that too, but since you can't even get that far there's no point telling you about anything else. It's the LoL That's just the way you people refer to having appreciation for when AW is successful. As I pointed out there is more to it than that, but since you can't even get that far there's no point telling you about anything else. Too bad you people can't appreciate the fact that in Salt's day there wasn't much AW success TO appreciate, like there is today. |
#70
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What's in pet food?
On 6/30/2011 3:36 PM, tidbit wrote:
On 30/06/2011 22:56, dh@. wrote: On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 20:57:18 +0100, wrote: On 29/06/2011 23:33, dh@. wrote: On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 00:52:51 +0100, wrote: On 28/06/2011 21:21, Goo wrote: I did not benefit by being born. Once I *was* born, I was in a position to receive benefits, but being born itself was not a benefit. Thank you for giving me your time to explain so clearly my mistake. We can only set the peg back to the instant where we were conceived. Obviously, before that moment, we did not exist and could not receive anything. Yet you clearly appear to be benefitting from your existence whether the conception of your zygote was a benefit to you or not. I do benefit from my existence That's only true if you would benefit just as well if you did not exist. What on earth *are* you getting at? Why do you talk such nonsense when you *must* surely understand by now after 12 years how only living experiential things can receive a benefit? from the advantages I was given while growing up. You benefitted from your existence then too, even if it makes you uncomfortable for some odd reason, and even if your zygote didn't litterally benefit from the act of conception. LOL...would you feel comfortable explaining to people that you don't believe you benefit from your existence because you don't believe your zygote benefitted from the act of its own conception? A zygote can't benefit by starting to exist either. It has to exist before it can receive a benefit. Zygotes can't benefit at all, even when they exist, because they do not have an experiential existence. It has no nervous system, no brain, no welfare - no means of experiencing anything. Tidbit, it is anyone's guess where ****wit even learned the word zygote, but apart maybe from looking it up in Wikipedia, he has no idea what one is, nor what its attributes are. He never took even a high school biology course, and he has no formal education beyond high school. In high school, he took vocational courses, not a university preparatory curriculum. |
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