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John Doe



 
 
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  #11  
Old July 31st 17, 01:15 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav,free.spam
John Doe[_2_]
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Posts: 161
Default John Doe

Netcop-wannabe troll from Google Groups...

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"Peter W." pfjw aol.com wrote:

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Subject: John Doe
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Mark, Mr. Schenk:

Two things: I did state that if one wishes to dilute the value of words, us Lynx or Mountain Lion to understand the point.

Then, consider William of Occam - "semi-feral" is neither. Neither semi (anything) nor feral (anything).

Answer one question, carefully: Were you to find/trap a genuine European Wild Cat under your control, would you attempt to 'gentle it' into a house pet? That is a yes/no question. Once answered, please apply that answer to the next actual Feral you encounter. They are NOT, in any way, shape, form or after however much wishful thinking, anything like any sort of barn cat, stray cat, homeless cat, nor any other sort of human-interactive cat at any level, however removed. Full stop.

Please answer.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA


  #12  
Old August 1st 17, 02:01 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav
cshenk
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,890
Default John Doe

Peter W. wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav:

Mark, Mr. Schenk:

Two things: I did state that if one wishes to dilute the value of
words, us Lynx or Mountain Lion to understand the point.

Then, consider William of Occam - "semi-feral" is neither. Neither
semi (anything) nor feral (anything).

Answer one question, carefully: Were you to find/trap a genuine
European Wild Cat under your control, would you attempt to 'gentle
it' into a house pet? That is a yes/no question. Once answered,
please apply that answer to the next actual Feral you encounter. They
are NOT, in any way, shape, form or after however much wishful
thinking, anything like any sort of barn cat, stray cat, homeless
cat, nor any other sort of human-interactive cat at any level,
however removed. Full stop.

Please answer.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA


Peter, lets start that you can't even spell my nickname, nor did you
have any reason to assume my sex (got it wrong BTW). You also changed
breeds off the domestic line.

Unless you have OCD issues, the world is not 'black or white, with no
shades of grey'. If you do really think the world is a yes or no place
with no shades of color, then I am sorry that you feel that way but
will endtrans the conversation as not worth my time.

Lets try it another way. How many years and in what capacity do you
have with cat rescue?

I have 37 years at it, working my ways up to to harder cases. It takes
time, patience, knowledge, and willing to accept what will not change.

--

  #13  
Old August 1st 17, 11:38 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav
Peter W.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13
Default John Doe

On Monday, July 31, 2017 at 9:01:28 PM UTC-4, cshenk wrote:
Peter W. wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav:

Mark, Mr. Schenk:

Two things: I did state that if one wishes to dilute the value of
words, us Lynx or Mountain Lion to understand the point.

Then, consider William of Occam - "semi-feral" is neither. Neither
semi (anything) nor feral (anything).

Answer one question, carefully: Were you to find/trap a genuine
European Wild Cat under your control, would you attempt to 'gentle
it' into a house pet? That is a yes/no question. Once answered,
please apply that answer to the next actual Feral you encounter. They
are NOT, in any way, shape, form or after however much wishful
thinking, anything like any sort of barn cat, stray cat, homeless
cat, nor any other sort of human-interactive cat at any level,
however removed. Full stop.

Please answer.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA


Peter, lets start that you can't even spell my nickname, nor did you
have any reason to assume my sex (got it wrong BTW). You also changed
breeds off the domestic line.

Unless you have OCD issues, the world is not 'black or white, with no
shades of grey'. If you do really think the world is a yes or no place
with no shades of color, then I am sorry that you feel that way but
will endtrans the conversation as not worth my time.

Lets try it another way. How many years and in what capacity do you
have with cat rescue?

I have 37 years at it, working my ways up to to harder cases. It takes
time, patience, knowledge, and willing to accept what will not change.

--


I have been rescuing - and not from shelters - cats at one level or another for very nearly 50 years now, and on two continents. None of the present incumbents are rescues at this time, but the most recent was about six years ago and placed with one of the kids. We keep only two cats at a time, usually very long times.

I do notice your evasion of the direct question: What would *YOU* do were you by accident or design in control of a European Wild Cat?

In my case, it was: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabian_wildcat that my wife and I found injured and barely conscious on the highway between Riyadh and Khobar - not by a vehicle, but probably by some other predator. After having it vetted, cleaned, and a few stitches (all the while tranquilized) it became clear that this one was no domestic cat (the Bedouin are very fond of cats for many good reasons - so seeing cats away from civilization is not uncommon). The vet kept it for two days to make sure that there were no complications - it drank but did not eat - and then I returned it to where we found it. It did not look back.

So, your answer?

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
  #14  
Old August 1st 17, 02:29 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav,free.spam
John Doe[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 161
Default John Doe

Netcop-wannabe troll...

--
"Peter W." pfjw aol.com wrote:

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On Monday, July 31, 2017 at 9:01:28 PM UTC-4, cshenk wrote:
Peter W. wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav:

Mark, Mr. Schenk:

Two things: I did state that if one wishes to dilute the value of
words, us Lynx or Mountain Lion to understand the point.

Then, consider William of Occam - "semi-feral" is neither. Neither
semi (anything) nor feral (anything).

Answer one question, carefully: Were you to find/trap a genuine
European Wild Cat under your control, would you attempt to 'gentle
it' into a house pet? That is a yes/no question. Once answered,
please apply that answer to the next actual Feral you encounter. They
are NOT, in any way, shape, form or after however much wishful
thinking, anything like any sort of barn cat, stray cat, homeless
cat, nor any other sort of human-interactive cat at any level,
however removed. Full stop.

Please answer.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA


Peter, lets start that you can't even spell my nickname, nor did you
have any reason to assume my sex (got it wrong BTW). You also changed
breeds off the domestic line.

Unless you have OCD issues, the world is not 'black or white, with no
shades of grey'. If you do really think the world is a yes or no place
with no shades of color, then I am sorry that you feel that way but
will endtrans the conversation as not worth my time.

Lets try it another way. How many years and in what capacity do you
have with cat rescue?

I have 37 years at it, working my ways up to to harder cases. It takes
time, patience, knowledge, and willing to accept what will not change.

--


I have been rescuing - and not from shelters - cats at one level or another for very nearly 50 years now, and on two continents. None of the present incumbents are rescues at this time, but the most recent was about six years ago and placed with one of the kids. We keep only two cats at a time, usually very long times.

I do notice your evasion of the direct question: What would *YOU* do were you by accident or design in control of a European Wild Cat?

In my case, it was: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabian_wildcat that my wife and I found injured and barely conscious on the highway between Riyadh and Khobar - not by a vehicle, but probably by some other predator. After having it vetted, cleaned, and a few stitches (all the while tranquilized) it became clear that this one was no domestic cat (the Bedouin are very fond of cats for many good reasons - so seeing cats away from civilization is not uncommon). The vet kept it for two days to make sure that there were no complications - it drank but did not eat - and then I returned it to where we found it. It did not look back.

So, your answer?

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA


  #15  
Old August 2nd 17, 10:51 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav
cshenk
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,890
Default John Doe

Peter W. wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav:

On Monday, July 31, 2017 at 9:01:28 PM UTC-4, cshenk wrote:
Peter W. wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav:

Mark, Mr. Schenk:

Two things: I did state that if one wishes to dilute the value of
words, us Lynx or Mountain Lion to understand the point.

Then, consider William of Occam - "semi-feral" is neither. Neither
semi (anything) nor feral (anything).

Answer one question, carefully: Were you to find/trap a genuine
European Wild Cat under your control, would you attempt to 'gentle
it' into a house pet? That is a yes/no question. Once answered,
please apply that answer to the next actual Feral you encounter.
They are NOT, in any way, shape, form or after however much
wishful thinking, anything like any sort of barn cat, stray cat,
homeless cat, nor any other sort of human-interactive cat at any
level, however removed. Full stop.

Please answer.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA


Peter, lets start that you can't even spell my nickname, nor did you
have any reason to assume my sex (got it wrong BTW). You also
changed breeds off the domestic line.

Unless you have OCD issues, the world is not 'black or white, with
no shades of grey'. If you do really think the world is a yes or no
place with no shades of color, then I am sorry that you feel that
way but will endtrans the conversation as not worth my time.

Lets try it another way. How many years and in what capacity do you
have with cat rescue?

I have 37 years at it, working my ways up to to harder cases. It
takes time, patience, knowledge, and willing to accept what will
not change.

--


I have been rescuing - and not from shelters - cats at one level or
another for very nearly 50 years now, and on two continents. None of
the present incumbents are rescues at this time, but the most recent
was about six years ago and placed with one of the kids. We keep only
two cats at a time, usually very long times.

I do notice your evasion of the direct question: What would YOU do
were you by accident or design in control of a European Wild Cat?

In my case, it was: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabian_wildcat
that my wife and I found injured and barely conscious on the highway
between Riyadh and Khobar - not by a vehicle, but probably by some
other predator. After having it vetted, cleaned, and a few stitches
(all the while tranquilized) it became clear that this one was no
domestic cat (the Bedouin are very fond of cats for many good reasons
- so seeing cats away from civilization is not uncommon). The vet
kept it for two days to make sure that there were no complications -
it drank but did not eat - and then I returned it to where we found
it. It did not look back.

So, your answer?

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA


Peter, I do not live in Europe so I am more like to encounter an
American Bobcat. Do you feel your version of a wild cat matters more
than ours? I do not know.

Since you seem to post with a USA addess, is there a reason why you
center on a Europe version of feline? (PA seems USA and if i am wrong,
my apologies).



--

  #16  
Old August 3rd 17, 11:43 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav
Peter W.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13
Default John Doe

The point of the exercise is to question your behavior if you were to encounter a true feral cat - and known to be such. But, nonetheless a cat.

Up near our summer house (north-central PA) we are adjacent to a fairly large state game land. There are several walking trails, and during the non-hunting months, we sometimes take the dogs on long rambles on early mornings as we see the most then. One day, we came heard some meowing and thought we came across a lost kitten, or several. Not even a little bit. We walked around for an hour looking, with the dogs on their leashes (they love cats, by the way) That was about eight years ago. Today, there are still cats up there, but we have yet to actually lay eyes on one - but for one fleeting view, that first time. These last couple of years we have stopped these walks during the summer as the deer population has exploded, along with the associated ticks.

This is what I mean by a true feral. These are not, nor will they ever be cute little housepets, and to force them into permanent kittenhood does them no favors. Alley cats, strays, lost cats, all these are fair game for 'rescue', and I have done my share of that. But after perhaps 3 or 4 generations with no human contact, any cat of that nature has no need for humans. We do not have wild domestic cat analogs in North America, so there is no direct comparison. But, by the he same token, would you attempt to domesticate a lynx?

We spent several years living and working in the Middle East, and learned a great deal about cultures and attitudes in the area. And we did venture out into the countryside more than most Westerners, and so experienced some interesting encounters. We learned to drink cardamom coffee in vast quantities, to always carry honey or sugar - just two small things of many.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
  #17  
Old August 4th 17, 02:33 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav
cshenk
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,890
Default John Doe

Peter W. wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav:

The point of the exercise is to question your behavior if you were to
encounter a true feral cat - and known to be such. But, nonetheless a
cat.

Up near our summer house (north-central PA) we are adjacent to a
fairly large state game land. There are several walking trails, and
during the non-hunting months, we sometimes take the dogs on long
rambles on early mornings as we see the most then. One day, we came
heard some meowing and thought we came across a lost kitten, or
several. Not even a little bit. We walked around for an hour looking,
with the dogs on their leashes (they love cats, by the way) That was
about eight years ago. Today, there are still cats up there, but we
have yet to actually lay eyes on one - but for one fleeting view,
that first time. These last couple of years we have stopped these
walks during the summer as the deer population has exploded, along
with the associated ticks.

This is what I mean by a true feral. These are not, nor will they
ever be cute little housepets, and to force them into permanent
kittenhood does them no favors. Alley cats, strays, lost cats, all
these are fair game for 'rescue', and I have done my share of that.
But after perhaps 3 or 4 generations with no human contact, any cat
of that nature has no need for humans. We do not have wild domestic
cat analogs in North America, so there is no direct comparison. But,
by the he same token, would you attempt to domesticate a lynx?

We spent several years living and working in the Middle East, and
learned a great deal about cultures and attitudes in the area. And we
did venture out into the countryside more than most Westerners, and
so experienced some interesting encounters. We learned to drink
cardamom coffee in vast quantities, to always carry honey or sugar -
just two small things of many.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA


Well Peter, you may be one of those people who uses the term in the
most strict sense based on a specfic area you lived in and if you wish
to do that, that is your right to express.

And yes, I had a bobcat (Lynx related). Named him Bobby and the vet
laughed a lot when he found out I didnt know he was a bobcat as he grew
up.

--

 




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