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declawing



 
 
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  #21  
Old August 11th 03, 02:03 AM
bewtifulfreak
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"Brandy Alexandre" wrote in message
...
bewtifulfreak wrote in


There are regional and cultural issues surrounding everything we do and
one country will be in line with it while another will not. Glom on to
whatever fits within your ideal, but don't discount everything that
does not as "just wrong." Because by and large it isn't. It's just an
opinion.


As I said, there is anecdotal evidence and professional information
indicating that it's not just opinion that declawing can and often does harm
cats: it's fact. That's not hystrionic and overzelous, that's just plain
fact. I support you in living your life in whatever way you see fit that
doesn't harm another being: I don't care about your religious preference,
your sexual preference, what you wear, what you eat, if you smoke (as long
as you do so considerately), or anything else. I don't care if you belive
in God or whether the moon is made of green cheese. *That's* all a matter
of opinion and personal preference, or, in the case of believing the moon is
made of green cheese, harmless ignorance. Causing injury to another being -
particularly for your own convenience, but for any reason whatsoever - is
certainly *not* harmless, and thus, not merely a matter of personal
preference, unless you are the type of person who believes that someone
should be allowed to exercise their preference for things such as wife
beating.


How many industrialized nations are there in the world
anyway? Twenty of them have banned declawing.


Twenty different nations agreeing on the same thing seems like far more than
"opinion" to me, and certainly argues against it being a matter of regional
and cultural preference, unless we are to believe all twenty of those
nations have the same regional and cultural bias, which seems highly
unlikely. The only two countries that haven't banned it are much more
likely to share a cultural and regional bias, that most likely being the
bias of putting the love of money above all else.


Half of them admit
there's still an underground for it and the results have been similar
to the banning of abortion--disfigurement and death. If that's what
you want to happen to cats, fine. I think you're cruel.


I don't want that to happen. I don't want murder to happen either, but it
does. But does that mean we should make it legal? I'm not comparing
declawing to murder, but the fact that something happens illegally doesn't
justify making it legal. And for someone who encourages people to discuss
things rationally in order to make their opinions more accesible, accusing
me of wanting cats to suffer and calling me cruel because I'm against
declawing is not only irrational, but hypocritical as well.

Ann

--

For more information on the anti-declawing issue I would recommend The
Declawing Information Site:

http://stopdeclaw.com


  #24  
Old August 11th 03, 02:43 AM
Cheryl
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Brandy¬*Alexandre" ¬* wrote in
:

I'm not an extremist, but the fact is, most countries have banned
declawing for a reason, and many vets have expressed their
professional opinion that declawing is harmful to a cat, that it
can cause a lot of pain, and often psychological and/or behavior
problems. I don't see why they would do this if it was just a
matter of personal preference. Considering how rarely governments
consider animal rights, the fact that so many have considered
declawing harmful enough to ban it sends a very strong message,
and there are certainly a number of fact-laden articles all over
the 'Net (many by vets) supporting that viewpoint. There is also
a great deal of anecdotal evidence regarding the aforementioned
psychological and behavior problems, much of it from shelters
dealing with the fallout of this proceedure.

That is the reason it's very difficult for most people here not to
get angry, extreme or resort to name calling when they hear of
people trying to justify the proceedure; it is unneccessary, and
there is a lot of evidence which supports the idea that it can
cause a cat a lot of misery. And as this group is full of animal
lovers, it angers them to hear people trying to justify an
unecessary procedure that makes innocent animals suffer....that's
only natural.

Ann



Some European countries banned the use of nickel in their coins.


Did you just compare cats with nickels? Uh huh. This speaks volumns about
you.

--
Cheryl

"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
-Mario Andretti.

  #25  
Old August 11th 03, 02:43 AM
Cheryl
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Brandy¬*Alexandre" ¬* wrote in
:

I'm not an extremist, but the fact is, most countries have banned
declawing for a reason, and many vets have expressed their
professional opinion that declawing is harmful to a cat, that it
can cause a lot of pain, and often psychological and/or behavior
problems. I don't see why they would do this if it was just a
matter of personal preference. Considering how rarely governments
consider animal rights, the fact that so many have considered
declawing harmful enough to ban it sends a very strong message,
and there are certainly a number of fact-laden articles all over
the 'Net (many by vets) supporting that viewpoint. There is also
a great deal of anecdotal evidence regarding the aforementioned
psychological and behavior problems, much of it from shelters
dealing with the fallout of this proceedure.

That is the reason it's very difficult for most people here not to
get angry, extreme or resort to name calling when they hear of
people trying to justify the proceedure; it is unneccessary, and
there is a lot of evidence which supports the idea that it can
cause a cat a lot of misery. And as this group is full of animal
lovers, it angers them to hear people trying to justify an
unecessary procedure that makes innocent animals suffer....that's
only natural.

Ann



Some European countries banned the use of nickel in their coins.


Did you just compare cats with nickels? Uh huh. This speaks volumns about
you.

--
Cheryl

"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
-Mario Andretti.

  #26  
Old August 11th 03, 02:53 AM
Relish
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

bewtifulfreak wrote:
"Brandy Alexandre" wrote in message
...


Good luck with that statement. This group is nothing but extremists
who like to flame away people who are not of like mind or who they
cannot convert.



I'm not an extremist, but the fact is, most countries have banned declawing
for a reason,


Extremist: One is winning an argument with a declawer.

I'm not an extremist either. In fact, I detest protests and
agenda-driven bull**** activism.

But this is a simple case of people choosing to maim their pets for
their own convenience. There is no gray area here. It's just wrong.
THAT is why people like Brandy like to resort to the E word. It
creates a fantasy that maybe they're not horrible people. But they are.

  #27  
Old August 11th 03, 02:53 AM
Relish
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

bewtifulfreak wrote:
"Brandy Alexandre" wrote in message
...


Good luck with that statement. This group is nothing but extremists
who like to flame away people who are not of like mind or who they
cannot convert.



I'm not an extremist, but the fact is, most countries have banned declawing
for a reason,


Extremist: One is winning an argument with a declawer.

I'm not an extremist either. In fact, I detest protests and
agenda-driven bull**** activism.

But this is a simple case of people choosing to maim their pets for
their own convenience. There is no gray area here. It's just wrong.
THAT is why people like Brandy like to resort to the E word. It
creates a fantasy that maybe they're not horrible people. But they are.

  #28  
Old August 11th 03, 02:54 AM
Karen Chuplis
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

in article , Brandy¬*Alexandre at
? wrote on 8/10/03 7:34 PM:

bewtifulfreak wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav:

I'm not an extremist, but the fact is, most countries have banned
declawing for a reason, and many vets have expressed their
professional opinion that declawing is harmful to a cat, that it
can cause a lot of pain, and often psychological and/or behavior
problems. I don't see why they would do this if it was just a
matter of personal preference. Considering how rarely governments
consider animal rights, the fact that so many have considered
declawing harmful enough to ban it sends a very strong message,
and there are certainly a number of fact-laden articles all over
the 'Net (many by vets) supporting that viewpoint. There is also
a great deal of anecdotal evidence regarding the aforementioned
psychological and behavior problems, much of it from shelters
dealing with the fallout of this proceedure.

That is the reason it's very difficult for most people here not to
get angry, extreme or resort to name calling when they hear of
people trying to justify the proceedure; it is unneccessary, and
there is a lot of evidence which supports the idea that it can
cause a cat a lot of misery. And as this group is full of animal
lovers, it angers them to hear people trying to justify an
unecessary procedure that makes innocent animals suffer....that's
only natural.

Ann



Some European countries banned the use of nickel in their coins. You
cannot take a Vicks inhaler to Japan, nor can you take nail glue (krazy
glue). Every country has its forbidden things that simply do not make
sense to the rest of the world. Some countries EAT cats and dogs.
Some countries are starving and won't eat cattle, for heavens sake.
Some Asian countries think it's insane that we drink milk because their
bodies are complely intolerant of lactose.

There are regional and cultural issues surrounding everything we do and
one country will be in line with it while another will not. Glom on to
whatever fits within your ideal, but don't discount everything that
does not as "just wrong." Because by and large it isn't. It's just an
opinion. How many industrialized nations are there in the world
anyway? Twenty of them have banned declawing. Half of them admit
there's still an underground for it and the results have been similar
to the banning of abortion--disfigurement and death. If that's what
you want to happen to cats, fine. I think you're cruel.


We aren't talking abut ONE country but rather every country except the US
and Canada.

Karen

  #29  
Old August 11th 03, 02:54 AM
Karen Chuplis
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

in article , Brandy¬*Alexandre at
? wrote on 8/10/03 7:34 PM:

bewtifulfreak wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav:

I'm not an extremist, but the fact is, most countries have banned
declawing for a reason, and many vets have expressed their
professional opinion that declawing is harmful to a cat, that it
can cause a lot of pain, and often psychological and/or behavior
problems. I don't see why they would do this if it was just a
matter of personal preference. Considering how rarely governments
consider animal rights, the fact that so many have considered
declawing harmful enough to ban it sends a very strong message,
and there are certainly a number of fact-laden articles all over
the 'Net (many by vets) supporting that viewpoint. There is also
a great deal of anecdotal evidence regarding the aforementioned
psychological and behavior problems, much of it from shelters
dealing with the fallout of this proceedure.

That is the reason it's very difficult for most people here not to
get angry, extreme or resort to name calling when they hear of
people trying to justify the proceedure; it is unneccessary, and
there is a lot of evidence which supports the idea that it can
cause a cat a lot of misery. And as this group is full of animal
lovers, it angers them to hear people trying to justify an
unecessary procedure that makes innocent animals suffer....that's
only natural.

Ann



Some European countries banned the use of nickel in their coins. You
cannot take a Vicks inhaler to Japan, nor can you take nail glue (krazy
glue). Every country has its forbidden things that simply do not make
sense to the rest of the world. Some countries EAT cats and dogs.
Some countries are starving and won't eat cattle, for heavens sake.
Some Asian countries think it's insane that we drink milk because their
bodies are complely intolerant of lactose.

There are regional and cultural issues surrounding everything we do and
one country will be in line with it while another will not. Glom on to
whatever fits within your ideal, but don't discount everything that
does not as "just wrong." Because by and large it isn't. It's just an
opinion. How many industrialized nations are there in the world
anyway? Twenty of them have banned declawing. Half of them admit
there's still an underground for it and the results have been similar
to the banning of abortion--disfigurement and death. If that's what
you want to happen to cats, fine. I think you're cruel.


We aren't talking abut ONE country but rather every country except the US
and Canada.

Karen

  #30  
Old August 11th 03, 03:18 AM
Cheryl
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Gary wrote in :

I have trained mine to sharpen their
claws on rubber flip-flops ("shower shoes"), and I buy a sacrificial pair
every year just for them. I actually got down and showed them how to use
them (repeatedly); it didn't take long till they had the idea.

Figure it out! (My cats did)



LOL I remember you.

To the unbelievers, cats can be trained. I have a new feral cat and she is
already learning from the others where to scratch and I haven't even had to
show her. Her first months were in the wild. This pic with her near a
very scratched up post is part of what teaches her. The others had to
learn before her so she has an advantage. My furniture is intact. My skin,
well, we like to play rough sometimes.
http://community.webshots.com/photo/75552731/85147301OptGat


--
Cheryl

"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
-Mario Andretti.

 




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