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  #21  
Old August 1st 03, 05:27 PM
Bob Brenchley.
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On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 13:38:18 GMT, "L. Kelly"
wrote:

If you find the 3 IQ point, Bob, then go and spew your rubbish in the toilet where it
belongs.

I live on a highway, with over 10,000 vehicles a day going through, absolutely no yard,
and near a rural area full of coyotes and wild dogs (one of which I have seen near my
home). If protecting my cats from those dangers makes me "cruel, selfish, or both" (to
quote your words), then I guess I would have to say that you are the one who is abusive.


If you live in an area where, for whatever reason, you feel unable to
allow a healthy cat its freedom to roam for at least some time each
day (and only you can judge your area) then don't have a cat. To have
a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you are being
cruel, selfish, or both.

Anyone who WOULD subject their so-called "loved pets" to these dangers is, indeed,
extremely cruel, selfish, stupid and abusive.

You have made it very obvious to all here that you have no love for your animals at all,
so please keep your mental garbage from spilling over into everyone's inbox.


--
Bob.

Everyone is entitled to be stupid but you're abusing the privilege.
  #22  
Old August 1st 03, 05:27 PM
Bob Brenchley.
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On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:42:18 +0100, "bewtifulfreak"
wrote:

"L. Kelly" wrote in message
.ca...

I live on a highway, with over 10,000 vehicles a day going through,

absolutely no yard,
and near a rural area full of coyotes and wild dogs (one of which I have

seen near my
home). If protecting my cats from those dangers makes me "cruel, selfish,

or both" (to
quote your words), then I guess I would have to say that you are the one

who is abusive.

Anyone who WOULD subject their so-called "loved pets" to these dangers is,

indeed,
extremely cruel, selfish, stupid and abusive.


Ah, but Bob believes that you just shouldn't have a cat if you live in an
area like that.


I believe she shouldn't have a cat, most true cat lovers would agree.

And as far as strays in those areas? I guess we're
supposed to accept that a feral life full of disease, fighting and possibly
starving or being eaten is a more 'natural' life for a cat, and therefore it
will somehow be happier than if it were being kept indoors, fed, played
with, and tended to. Myself, I find that awfully difficult to accept. I so
wish the cats could have a (verbal) say in all this!!!

Ann
(who does let her cats outdoors, but only because it's safe to do so)


You have a choice. Have a cat who is allowed out for at least some
time during the average day, or don't have a cat. It really is as
simple as that.

--
Bob.

You have not been charged for this lesson. Please pass it to all your
friends so they may learn as well.
  #23  
Old August 2nd 03, 04:34 PM
Bob Brenchley.
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On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 23:17:21 -0500, "DeAnna"
wrote:

If you live in an area where, for whatever reason, you feel unable to
allow a healthy cat its freedom to roam for at least some time each
day (and only you can judge your area) then don't have a cat. To have
a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you are being
cruel, selfish, or both.


Sir-

Where do you live?

You don't have any cat haters for neighbors?


No. There may be the odd one who doesn't like cats very much, but that
would make them odd now wouldn't it?

Or perhaps you don't *know* you do? You know,
the ones who are nice to your face, but secretly put antifreeze in a dish next to the
garbage can that your cat rummages in, because he is throwing trash across their patio?


You have some strange garbage cans if a cat can do that.

Also, all antifreeze produced in the EU is "pet safe".

Or
the one who shoots the cat with a pellet gun,


Heard of that happening - guy got a very heavy fine and was soon
forced to move as a result of the hate campaign he earnt himself.

because the cat digs up his garden? Or the
person who just hates cats because they are 'cats' and knowing swerves to HIT instead of
swerving to miss, as kitty crosses the road?


Sure, and then he gets done for hitting the parked cars

Are you aware that cats are the most
frequently tortured of all domestic animals?


Nope. Are you aware how infrequent any animal torture really is?

So there is no traffic where you live?


Lots.

No cases of feline AIDS?


Not many.

No fleas


Lots of those, but then humans bring them indoors on their clothes as
well.

or mosquitoes


Nope.
carrying worms or other blood-borne disease or parasite?

Let me know where this Cat Utopia exists, because I'd love to live there.


The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

The feral we just took in, was because the neighbors (on whose destructive dog I had
complained to Animal Control) were threatening to harm the cat,


Something I would have reported to the police.

because (and I must say
unfairly) they couldn't just CALL animal control, as there is currently no law forbidding
cats to roam and destroy, but there is a law prohibiting DOGS from doing so.


That is how it should be. Cats represent no danger to humans - dogs
do.

It wasn't
even our cat, but looked similar to our cat, so they 'assumed' it belonged to us and
threatened harm if we didn't 'keep it from bothering their dog'.


As I said, such threats would be reported to the police.

Call me an 'abuser' all
you like. This baby isn't going any where near the outdoors.


The you are not just an abuser - but a very sick one.

I prefer to call myself a
'responsible' pet owner.


You would, but your lack of understanding of a cats needs makes your
an appallingly bad cat owner.

I am responsible for the behaviour of my kitties, as well as my
dog, and NONE of them are allowed off the property. They can go outside on leashes, or
attended if they obey me and stay in the yard (as my "son" did). They will soon have an
area that is 'enclosed' keeping them safely away from any predators, especially the humans
predators, of the ignorant and violent persuasion, yet allowing them access to the grass,
and sights and smells of outdoors.


Your animal abusing sickness seems to be very deep rooted. Maybe you
should seek treatment for your mental problems.

I am not going to turn this little darling outside, to find her headless body on my
doorstep as part of some nasty neighbor feud, simply because I wouldn't allow their dog to
live at my house, eating my shoes and chewing up my garden hose.

One bad thing about domestication. We teach animals to trust humans. Sometimes I think
that is ultimately a bad thing. Like I tried to explain to a friend about rehabbing
wild creatures. You must not imprint them too much, because that fear and mistrust of
humans may save their lives. Not all humans are kind and good.

Sorry, I have to go "abuse" my babies, it is time for their nightly snack of cream and/or
tuna, and they have all taken turn to come remind me. They certainly have me very
well trained.


You really are sick.

D.

PS-The door was opened to let the dog 'do her business' for the night. All of the cats ran
in the opposite direction as I held open the door, though I made no effort to stop them
going onto the porch. The dog went out long enough to accomplish what she had to, then
promptly sat at the door until I opened the screen for her to come in. I am thinking
they'd all rather be in this comfy A/C, lounging on comfy furniture, and licking the tuna
from their chins, than 'roaming'......

--
Bob.

Alas, your intelligence qualifies you more for the primordial soup
than for the "master race." Recognize your limitations. Then shut
up.
  #24  
Old August 2nd 03, 06:09 PM
bewtifulfreak
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"Bob Brenchley." wrote in message
...

You have some strange garbage cans if a cat can do that.

Also, all antifreeze produced in the EU is "pet safe".


Not everyone in this group lives in the EU, Bob.


Or
the one who shoots the cat with a pellet gun,


Heard of that happening - guy got a very heavy fine and was soon
forced to move as a result of the hate campaign he earnt himself.


Our cat was shot by a pellet gun, and ultimately had to be put to sleep. We
have no idea who did it, so (s)he gets away with it scot-free, while the cat
is now dead. We reported it to the police, for all the good it did; our cat
was considered 'property', not a living thing. And I *do* live in UK.


The feral we just took in, was because the neighbors (on whose

destructive dog I had
complained to Animal Control) were threatening to harm the cat,


Something I would have reported to the police.


Police generally say they can't do anything about someone who is threatening
*you* unless they do something, so I don't think they'd do a whole lot about
someone threatening your cat until it was too late.


because (and I must say
unfairly) they couldn't just CALL animal control, as there is currently

no law forbidding
cats to roam and destroy, but there is a law prohibiting DOGS from doing

so.

That is how it should be. Cats represent no danger to humans - dogs
do.


No, but cats can do damage to property or gardens, not to mention birds, and
thus, many people are very resentful of free-roaming cats either for the
damage to their garden or because they're bird lovers or both, and some will
actually go to great lengths to keep cats out of their yards, including
doing things to harm the cat.


It wasn't
even our cat, but looked similar to our cat, so they 'assumed' it

belonged to us and
threatened harm if we didn't 'keep it from bothering their dog'.


As I said, such threats would be reported to the police.


And as I said, to no result whatsoever.


I prefer to call myself a
'responsible' pet owner.


You would, but your lack of understanding of a cats needs makes your
an appallingly bad cat owner.


You say all true cat lovers and animal societies feel the way you do, but
any research on the 'Net or with various animal societies will prove that
there are many others who support the completely opposite view. You may
feel they're wrong, but a great many people feel you're wrong as well.


One bad thing about domestication. We teach animals to trust humans.

Sometimes I think
that is ultimately a bad thing. Like I tried to explain to a friend

about rehabbing
wild creatures. You must not imprint them too much, because that fear and

mistrust of
humans may save their lives. Not all humans are kind and good.


This is true. Bob says cats are only domesticated in that we've gotten them
to live with us, but the fact is, they've lost many of their natural
protections and instincts, and cannot be treated like true wild cats.
Despite how little Bob says it happens, wild cats are becoming extinct not
only because we're encroaching on their habitat, but, because this is
happening, they are coming into human habitats for food, and thus, being
shot. If this is happening to big wild cats, what hope do small domestic
cats have in protecting themselves against the dangers of city life? It's
all well and good to address life in the EU, particularly in UK, but many
people in this group are from cities in the US, and could well chose not to
own cats, but there would then be that many more feral cats living a not
very satisfying life in the outdoors, of sickness, attacks, and possibly
death, either by people wanting to rid themselves of the population (see
Kaeli's site for a tragic story about an entire feral population wiped out
by some idiot(s) with a 22.), or by cars, or some other horrible accident
befalling them. You're well entitled to your opinion, Bob, but that opinion
doesn't give you the right to make personal attacks on this newsgroup. I'm
sure that most of the indoor cats owned by people here, even if not as happy
as you believe they could be, are not suffering unduly; indoor owners may be
'sick' in your opinion, but are not blind, and would be able to see if their
cat was sulking around unhappily. And I truly believe that anyone on this
group who saw their cat in that state *would*, indeed, find another home for
it.

I know I'm wasting my breath, because you will probably just cut and paste
your pat line in response, or contradict everything I've said, but I just
felt the need to have my say. I won't continue banging my head against this
brick wall much longer, though, because that kind of behavior truly *is*
sick....

Ann


  #25  
Old August 2nd 03, 07:07 PM
bewtifulfreak
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One last point on the indoor-outdoor debate: there aren't enough homes for
stray cats as it is, so if you eliminate cat lovers who live in certain
areas from having cats, there will just be that many more cats wandering
homeless, and ill-equipped for it. I believe a cat suffers far more living
a feral life than it does living an indoor life with a loving
caretaker-companion, though, again, I realize you, Bob, will disagree.

Ann


  #26  
Old August 2nd 03, 07:08 PM
bewtifulfreak
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One last point on the indoor-outdoor debate: there aren't enough homes for
all the stray cats as it is, so if you eliminate cat lovers who live in
certain areas from having cats, there will just be that many more cats
wandering homeless, and ill-equipped for it. I believe a cat suffers far
more living a feral life than it does living an indoor life with a loving
caretaker-companion, though, again, I realize you, Bob, will disagree.

Ann




  #27  
Old August 2nd 03, 07:08 PM
bewtifulfreak
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Default

One last point on the indoor-outdoor debate: there aren't enough homes for
all the stray cats as it is, so if you eliminate cat lovers who live in
certain areas from having cats, there will just be that many more cats
wandering homeless, and ill-equipped for it. I believe a cat suffers far
more living a feral life than it does living an indoor life with a loving
caretaker-companion, though, again, I realize you, Bob, will disagree.

Ann




  #28  
Old August 2nd 03, 07:33 PM
bewtifulfreak
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Okay, make that *two* last points (darn computer!)....oh, well, I think it
was a point worth making twice.


"bewtifulfreak" wrote in message
...
One last point on the indoor-outdoor debate: there aren't enough homes for
all the stray cats as it is, so if you eliminate cat lovers who live in
certain areas from having cats, there will just be that many more cats
wandering homeless, and ill-equipped for it. I believe a cat suffers far
more living a feral life than it does living an indoor life with a loving
caretaker-companion, though, again, I realize you, Bob, will disagree.

Ann





  #29  
Old August 2nd 03, 07:42 PM
bewtifulfreak
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"bewtifulfreak" wrote in message
...
Okay, make that *two* last points (darn computer!)....oh, well, I think it
was a point worth making twice.


Make that *three*....don't know how many more are going to show up, but I
apologize in advance....if I keep replying to every one, we'll never see the
end of them, LOL!

Ann
(feeling sheepish, and sure to hear from Bob about my "moronic posting
techniques"!)


  #30  
Old August 2nd 03, 10:07 PM
bewtifulfreak
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"Mogie" wrote in message
...
I wanted you to know bewtifulfreak that I really appreciate your common
sense. Trying to carry on a intelligent conversation with Bob is not
possible. But thanks for trying!


Thank you, Mogie, that means a lot to me. I realized that right from the
start, and intend to stop trying. I usually do okay at ignoring people like
that - and plonking him will make it that much easier - but when people
can't disagree without making personal attacks, it just seems to bring out
the avenging angel in me, LOL! But clearly, Bob is not into common sense,
and nothing I can say will stop him making his unmitigated judgements about
the allegedy sickness, selfishness, or cruelty of all you wonderful folks in
the group. Like Dear Abby (or was it Ann Landers?) once said, trying to
reason with an alcoholic is like trying to blow out a lightbulb, and trying
to discuss anything with Bob is exactly the same!

Ann
(resisting the temptation to read what Bob has to say in response to her
last post, and plonking him right now for her own peace of mind)



 




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