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Abducted strays?



 
 
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  #21  
Old October 12th 03, 07:28 PM
frlpwr
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Ted Davis wrote:

(snip)

Try some other group - all you'll find here are cat people, especially
people who have rescued many cats already and continue to rescue them,
mostly successfully.


Do you think all feral cats should be living in human households?

"but everyone who is aware of the situation in the
neighborhood thinks something is wrong, -- as in there is more going on here
then is apparent. e.g., the motivations of the persons who took them might not
be as noble as you people are assuming"


We know nothing about that person's motives,


We can deduce her motives. All the woman has to do is allow the OP to
see the cats and check out where and how they are living. What if the
cats are housed in carriers within the trailer? What if she is using
the female as a breeder? (Lots of people are obsessed with orange
kittens, you know.) What if she feeds her cats nothing but tablescraps
or keeps them as unfed mousers?

The simple fact that she is not willing to let the OP know any details
about the cats is reason enough to be suspect.

and so can make no
assumptions other than that the cat and kitten may have found a home
with someone who wants them


Apparently your years of experience in cat rescue have not taught you
any lessons about the frequency of animal abuse, neglect and animal
hoarding. What makes you think that trading the certainty of food and
shelter offered by the OP for "may have found a home", a home of unknown
quality, is a good deal for the cats?

A home is not necessarily a good home. I recently rescued seven old
tomcats from a woman's trailer. They were kept in carriers for extended
periods of time, their fur was matted with their own feces and their
skin was burnt from urine. They were walking skeletons. None of them
weighed over 6 pounds and one weighed just 4 pounds. Their muscle tone
was so compromised that five of them required surgery after developing
hernias from just walking around my cat room. Two were untreated
diabetics now on daily insulin injections. All of them have kidney
problems as a consequnce of poor quality food. They were infested with
fleas, tapeworms and earmites. The few teeth they still had among them
needed to be cleaned.

The critical point of this man's dilemma is why isn't he permitted to
see the cats and their surroundings? He doesn't seem unreasonable to
me. I think if he was assured about the cats' quality of care, he would
be happily relieved.

, but there is definitely something wrong
in what we do know, and that's about you. I can easily understand why
the neighbor is unwilling to give you the sister's address - in a
situation such as you have described, I would want to get the cat and
kitten out of it as quickly as possible


What had he done to the cats that would warrant this? He was providing
food and shelter, more than most people do for stray cats. I have to
doubt your claim of years of rescue experience if you are going to act
shocked if someone doesn't jump right on the T/N/R express.

and not to let you find out
where they went.


Do you feed feral and/or stray cats? Would you accept their
disappearance so easily? If so, I suggest you are unfit for feral cat
management.

While there might be something nefarious going on,
it seems more likely that the neighbor is acting in the interests of
the cats


Why? Nothing in their behavior would indicate this.

and being cautious toward you to protect the sister and the
cats from you.


Crikey! The guy was feeding and sheltering a stray cat and kitten! Why
are you acting as if he mistreated them?

  #22  
Old October 12th 03, 08:28 PM
Cat Protector
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I guess I rest my case about you. If you have to resort to name calling then
it only makes you look even worse.

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Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time!
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wrote in message
t...

You're a complete idiot. Isn't there some where else you should be?




  #23  
Old October 12th 03, 08:34 PM
Cat Protector
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Once again you resort to name calling? I guess you have proven my case to be
a bit true. How do you know it was not a case of animal rescue? You
originally stated that this building was abandoned. Also, why does someone
need to ask your permission to remove them? According to your original post
they appeared to be strays or possibly a feral colony. If they were ferals
then a rescue group or someone experienced in feral rescue could have been
called in and moved the colony to a safe haven. Of course because of this
issue of control you assume the worse or are mad because they didn't seem to
ask you for permission to take them. Of course, they weren't your cats to
begin with so why would they? I think you need to hope for the best and if
someone does step forward to say they took them, don't come down on them
like a bunch of bricks.

--
Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs!
www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek

Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time!
www.catgalaxymedia.com
wrote in message
t...

Well I think your an idiot making one assumption after another. -- They

had a
fairly warm place at night, a dry atrium during the day, food and someone

who
was working with them so they became accustomed to human touch.

This was not animal rescue at work. I was in contact with them and

working
with them. This was someone who knew they were pretty cats and decided to
take them rather then ask about keeping them.






  #24  
Old October 12th 03, 08:44 PM
Cat Protector
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How do you know it wasn't their original human (any cat person knows that
the cat is never owned by a human)? You seem to assume that it wasn't. For
someone who keeps saying we should learn the facts maybe you need to learn
them yourself. Also stop with the ego trip. You came here asking for advice
and help but when you didn't like the answers given, you got rude, obnoxious
and started with calling people names. The scenario you painted from
origianl post said this was abandoned building and therefore someone in the
community possibly opened their heart to these felines and brought them home
to care for them. Now you are upset because someone didn't give you that
person's name and address? You also seem to think cats are more like dogs
and therefore their main mission in life is to bond to you. You may have had
cats all your life but your postings show all of us that you have a lot to
learn about both rescue and cats. If your ego is really that important
perhaps you would be more suited for dog rescue. Let this incident go and
move on.

--
Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs!
www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek

Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time!
www.catgalaxymedia.com
wrote in message
t...

It wasn't the original owner. That's who I wanted to find. It was

someone
who decided she liked the look of orange tabby an kitten. People who

didn't
ask for them, and who have themselves and two other cats in a cold bedroom
sized place in a cold Newengland winter, a rusted out car that can't pass
inspection (e.g., not money there for proper care), and who may not keep

them
together -- probably pointed to the cats by a sister who somehow decided

that
she -- who hadn't done one thing for them,. and who was probably annoyed

that
they ran from her, but came to me when I showed up and followed me

around --
had the right to take them. -- When in fact she ought to be working on the
four kittens she has to get rid of.

Now, start asking for facts instead of assuming. -- We had a momcat who

once
she was strong enough and not dehydrated and falling down, as she was the
first time I saw her -- who was seen on at least three occasions a few

blocks
away and going further away. She never wandered anywhere else and there

was a
network of neighbors and kids who were watching them and for them. I had

cats
all my life, and I think the momcat was looking for someplace she once

was --
because she had become strong enough to move around, and she was sure the
kitten was protected. And she did take care of her kitten more then most
momcats do.





  #25  
Old October 12th 03, 08:52 PM
Cat Protector
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How do you know that they weren't socialized for adoption? Were you there at
the birth when the cats were kittens? Were you there when the momma cat
tought them how to use a litterbox with a little help from their original
humans? You say you do expect us to not be pompous jackasses yet the only
one I see being that is you. You may be upset but just because you found
these cats doesn't make them yours. You also came in here asking for help
and then decided to be rude and obnoxious with a know-it-all attitude. Just
admit you are not perfect and know everything. You would have gotten a lot
further if you didn't call people names, and got on an ego trip.

--
Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs!
www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek

Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time!
www.catgalaxymedia.com
wrote in message
t...

It also is not a big deal to wait until a cat is hungry and trick they out
with a can of food -- as these people did. So don't try to tell me they

were
socialized for adoption. They weren't.


I don't expect you to be mind readers. I do expect you not to be the

pompous
jackasses that some of you people are. -- One point of anger is that

someone
stole cats that I was caring for. They waited until they knew I would not

be
there instead of asking what the plan was.


Anyone that would allow a cat to remain unspayed, roam and get pregnant

in
this day and age does not deserve to have the cat.


Here you go again being a pompous jackass. -- The first time I saw the

momcat
she was so weak she fell down trying to hiss at me.

When asking for help don't be so rude.


Then stop being a know-it-all. People who don't know much, usually do that

to
compensate for not being as smart as they want to be.


Megan




"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."


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elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and

splendid
plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence

moves
too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's
favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material

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  #26  
Old October 12th 03, 10:21 PM
frlpwr
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Cat Protector wrote:

Once again you resort to name calling? I guess you have proven my case to be
a bit true. How do you know it was not a case of animal rescue?


How do you know it was? The point is without the woman or her sister or
a friend of a friend of a friend of the sister permitting the OP to
follow up on the cats, NO ONE knows what's happened to them. You are
faulting letoured for his concern. Would you be happy if he had washed
his hands of the cats and not given them a second thought? I doubt it.

You originally stated that this building was abandoned.


He also stated that he was overseeing the property for a friend.
Abandoned real estate, especially with accessible outbuildings, makes
excellent feral cat territory.
How can you be a feral cat rescuer and not know this?

Also, why does someone need to ask your permission to remove them?


I'll ask you the same thing I asked Ted. Do you feed feral cats? How
would you feel if they started disappearing and a neighbor told you her
sister had taken them, but you can't talk to her about them and you
can't see the cats?

If you are any kind of "rescuer" at all, you would be sick with worry
and rightly so.

According to your original post they appeared to be strays or possibly a feral
colony. If they were ferals
then a rescue group or someone experienced in feral rescue could have been
called in and moved the colony to a safe haven.


What kind of feral cat rescue do you run? First of all, how many feral
cat rescue groups go around collecting well-fed and sheltered cats for
relocation? Suitable relocation sites are practically impossible to
find, even for cats in urgent need of a new place to live. Relocation
of ferals is time consuming, energy draining and often unsuccessful. It
is generally limited to cats in dire need, not a mother and kitten who
are being fed and sheltered in their own territory.

Second, feral rescuers would be unbelievably thoughtless and cruel to
remove cats without first talking to the caregiver. If you or any of
your goofy "rescuer" friends tried to remove cats from any of my
colonies, you'd have a serious fight on your hands. Who the hell are
you to move cats around like they are chess pieces?

Of course because of this issue of control


You've got a lot of nerve talking about "control" after plainly
approving of feral cat "rescuers" removing well-fed and sheltered cats
on their whim.

you assume the worse


How many times does this have to be explained to you? He assumes the
worse because he can't talk to the women who supposedly has the cats nor
can he see the cats!!!

or are mad because they didn't seem to
ask you for permission to take them.

Of course, they weren't your cats to
begin with so why would they?


Because feral cat rescuers are not heartless assholes?

Feral cats belong to no one. This doesn't mean that anyone who feels
like it should move them around for NO GOOD REASON.

I think you need to hope for the best


What are you going to suggest next? Say a little prayer? Light a
candle? He needs to see the cats and he needs to see where they are
living. I'd be pounding on the bitch's door everyday until she told me
what she did with the cats. Anything less would be irresponsible.

and if someone does step forward to say they took them, don't come down on them
like a bunch of bricks.


If it takes bricks to educate this women on the need for cooperative
feral cat management, so be it. If I was caregiver for these cats, she
would be lucky to escape with brick dust in her hair.



  #27  
Old October 12th 03, 11:47 PM
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In [email protected], on 10/12/03
at 12:44 PM, "Cat Protector" said:

How do you know it wasn't their original human (any cat person knows that the
cat is never owned by a human)? You seem to assume that it wasn't.


Because the woman would have said that -- and she would not have watched me
play with them for 6 weeks if her "sister" -- who reportedly lives around 7
miles away lost them.

Funny thing about the sister too. I have a description of the car, and when
looking today. No car like that where she is reported to live.



For
someone who keeps saying we should learn the facts maybe you need to learn
them yourself. Also stop with the ego trip. You came here asking for advice
and help but when you didn't like the answers given, you got rude, obnoxious
and started with calling people names. The scenario you painted from origianl
post said this was abandoned building and therefore someone in the community
possibly opened their heart to these felines and brought them home to care
for them. Now you are upset because someone didn't give you that person's
name and address? You also seem to think cats are more like dogs and
therefore their main mission in life is to bond to you. You may have had cats
all your life but your postings show all of us that you have a lot to learn
about both rescue and cats.


Really? Hows that?

If your ego is really that important perhaps you
would be more suited for dog rescue. Let this incident go and move on.


No I need to find out what happened to these cats -- who were being cared for
and who ran from the lady who stole them and followed me around.

You have a very distorted sense of what is correct here.


  #28  
Old October 12th 03, 11:47 PM
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In [email protected], on 10/12/03
at 12:34 PM, "Cat Protector" said:

Once again you resort to name calling?


Some people are so dence they need to be called names. Call it shock therpy
showing a side of you that others see.



I guess you have proven my case to be
a bit true. How do you know it was not a case of animal rescue? You
originally stated that this building was abandoned. Also, why does someone
need to ask your permission to remove them? According to your original post
they appeared to be strays or possibly a feral colony.


I never said feral. You made it up in your head.


If they were ferals
then a rescue group or someone experienced in feral rescue could have been
called in and moved the colony to a safe haven. Of course because of this
issue of control you assume the worse or are mad because they didn't seem to
ask you for permission to take them. Of course, they weren't your cats to
begin with so why would they? I think you need to hope for the best and if
someone does step forward to say they took them, don't come down on them like
a bunch of bricks.


You and other came down on me -- I was doing the rescue. Someone stopped it
and refuses to explain, or tell where they are. You explain that.



  #29  
Old October 12th 03, 11:47 PM
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In , on 10/12/03
at 12:19 PM, Ted Davis said:

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 16:33:15 GMT, frlpwr wrote:


Cat Protector wrote:

By this post I have to wonder if you are going to track the person down,
beat the crap out of them and then take the cats to a shelter that may be
no-kill only to have them put down. I think you really need to get a grip
here because you obviously have an issue with anger and control.

Anyone that snatches cats, won't say exactly where they are and refuses
to allow an interested party to see the cats is behaving _very_
suspiciously. I'm beginning to think the cats are dead.


Or, thinks that the cats and/or the person who actually has them are at risk
from the person to whom he/she is refusing to give
information. If the OP is as hostile in person as here, I would refuse to
give out any information at all, not even the time of day.


The hostile person here is you and the people like you. -- You should be
checked out before bellowed near living things.





Why are you criticizing the OP for caring about the welfare of these two
cats?


There is more evidence that the OP is a control freak than that he has any
real feelings for the cats. Note that most of the people objecting to the OP
mostly have years of experience rescuing cats ... and dealing with people on
the fringes of the rescue efforts.


There is more evidence that you don't know what in the hell you are talking
about.



T.E.D. - e-mail must contain "T.E.D." or my .sig
in the body)



  #30  
Old October 12th 03, 11:47 PM
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In , on 10/12/03
at 12:10 PM, Ted Davis said:

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 00:38:48 GMT, wrote:

Next time I want advice, I will find people with a few more smarts and
socialization skills then I see here -- because, well you know -- I don't know
how be tactful about this, but everyone who is aware of the situation in the
neighborhood thinks something is wrong, -- as in there is more going on here
then is apparent. e.g., the motivations of the persons who took them might not
be as noble as you people are assuming. (I just didn't go into that part in
the initial post).


Try some other group - all you'll find here are cat people, especially people
who have rescued many cats already and continue to rescue them, mostly
successfully.


"but everyone who is aware of the situation in the
neighborhood thinks something is wrong, -- as in there is more going on here
then is apparent. e.g., the motivations of the persons who took them might not
be as noble as you people are assuming"


We know nothing about that person's motives, and so can make no
assumptions other than that the cat and kitten may have found a home with
someone who wants them, but there is definitely something wrong in what we do
know, and that's about you. I can easily understand why the neighbor is
unwilling to give you the sister's address - in a situation such as you have
described, I would want to get the cat and kitten out of it as quickly as
possible and not to let you find out where they went.


Lets see: they had a shelter in the night, a dry atrium where they could out
in the sunshine where they **wanted** to be in the day, food and water -- and
someone the momcat ran to when he arrived and who stayed and played with them
trying to get them use to human contact -- Really bad for them eh?

I think you're a jerk without a clue that something is wrong here.


While there might be
something nefarious going on, it seems more likely that the neighbor is
acting in the interests of the cats and being cautious toward you to protect
the sister and the cats from you.


Lets see; the Friday before this lady stole the cats she walked off her job,
whined about her favorite cats disappearing, and said she wanted the dump one
oh her cats --the mother of four 5 week old kittens and keep the kittens. --
Connect those dots!




T.E.D. - e-mail must contain "T.E.D." or my .sig
in the body)



 




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