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  #11  
Old April 5th 05, 10:42 AM
Phil P.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"bjdbrad" wrote in message
oups.com...
Well Phil perhaps its a mix of a few things.....one of them human
related I admit but I don't want to mess with the cans and smell and
mess of dealing with canned food.......



Actually, your cats' health should take precedence over your convenience.


but also I am convinced that the
dry food is best for them.



That's hardy the case. In fact, its the complete opposite. Here's why:

http://maxshouse.com/feline_nutritio...i ch_is_reall


Btw, take a look a your cats' teeth. Do you see any first premolars or
lower first or second premolars or broad and fisured crowns for grinding?
No, right? Their teeth are pointed - designed for tearing and cutting - not
mastication.

Also, gently try to move your cats' jaws laterally or in a rotary motion.
Can't do it, can you? Do you know why? Cats don't masticate! They can't
because their jaw hinge (condyloid process) is shaped like a bar - like a
door hinge - and only moves up and down (for holding struggling prey and
cutting) http://maxshouse.com/anatomy/Dentary...edial_view.jpg

So unless the dry food nuggets are very large - large enough for the teeth
to sink all the way down to the gum line - and don't shatter when the cat
bites into them, what good is dry food?


I have no quarrel with those that want to
use canned food I just prefer not to,


Its not as simple as that. Your cats' health should take precedence over
your convenience.


also my breeder says his cats
have much better and less odorous stools with dry food.



Most breeders are hardly credible sources of information - look how much
damage their "wisdom" has caused for many breeds - *especially* the
brachycephalic breeds and the Siamese! Most breeders know even less about
feline nutrition than they do about breeding!

The cost of those 'better' stools is less water in the urine and lower urine
volume - which increases the concentration of solutes in the urine which
increases the risk of urinary tract obstructions in male cats. Most of the
water dry-fed cats drink is lost to fecal moisture. So, even though they
drink about 6x more water than cats fed canned food, they have a *lower*
total water intake and turnover and *lower* urine volume. This isn't
opinion - this is fact backed up by peer-reviewed controlled clinical
studies.

Dry food also exacerbates interstitial cystitis and diabetes in cats that
are predisposed to it.


I think alot of
you guys use canned foods because your cat seems to love it and its
maybe more of a treat to give them the canned food which makes you feel
better being good to your cat which certainly is good for you and your
cat.


You couldn't be more wrong! Most of us feed our cats canned food because
its *healthier for our cats*. Canned food is more is expensive, takes more
effort, and is just a general pain in ass to deal with it - but its *better*
and *healthier* for our cats - which takes precedence over our convenience.
Don't you think we would love to just fill up a feeder once a week and
forget about it instead of worrying about rushing home to feed our cats on
time? The inconvenience and effort are offset by the satisfaction and
confidence that we are doing the best thing for our feline friends - who
enrich our lives so much. I think you might want to reevaluate your
priorities.

As the owner of a male cat, you should be particularily concerned about
feeding dry food. Male cats are very susceptible to urinary tract
obstructions because their urethra narrows - like a funnel - where it passes
over the pelvis - which can easily become blocked by small crystals and
debris and lead to oliguric acute renal failure and *death*. Females cats
aren't susceptible to UTOs because they have a wider and somewhat straight
urethra.

You seem like a caring owner whose just been misled and misinformed. I
really think you'll change your mind if you really think about it.

Phil


  #12  
Old April 5th 05, 06:51 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On 5 Apr 2005 01:37:26 -0700, "bjdbrad" wrote:

Well Phil perhaps its a mix of a few things.....one of them human
related I admit but I don't want to mess with the cans and smell and
mess of dealing with canned food.......but also I am convinced that the
dry food is best for them. I have no quarrel with those that want to
use canned food I just prefer not to, also my breeder says his cats
have much better and less odorous stools with dry food. I think alot of
you guys use canned foods because your cat seems to love it and its
maybe more of a treat to give them the canned food which makes you feel
better being good to your cat which certainly is good for you and your
cat.

Pepsi, in looking at the first post that I have I can't determine how
feeding was done, I right or wrong determined that the morning feeding
was from an empty bowl but I may be wrong.

Brad


He said, "(although I leave kitten chow available to him 24/7)."
so I knew the cat, like mine used to, has unlimitted dry.

As for canned, I grew up with dogs and knew that dry was essential for
the animal's health. When I acquired my cat, I thought the same was
true for him. I was surprised when my vet told me cats do fine on an
all canned food diet, and that was confirmed just yesterday when I saw
a vet on tv say the same thing.

I agree with you that canned food does have an odorous effect on their
waste. But since canned food passes through their systems faster than
dry, for a cat that has trouble passing dry food, such as the original
poster's cat, that seems more of a solution than a problem.

I have boarded my cat and was told he was only given Science Diet dry
the entire week he was there. He did just fine, so I've come to the
conclusion that as long as it's a food designed for cats, it won't
harm them, unless they have other problems. I do stay away from cheap
store brand foods, though, as they give my cat bloody diarhea.

pepsi
  #13  
Old April 5th 05, 07:28 PM
Karen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


wrote in message
...
On 5 Apr 2005 01:37:26 -0700, "bjdbrad" wrote:

Well Phil perhaps its a mix of a few things.....one of them human
related I admit but I don't want to mess with the cans and smell and
mess of dealing with canned food.......but also I am convinced that the
dry food is best for them. I have no quarrel with those that want to
use canned food I just prefer not to, also my breeder says his cats
have much better and less odorous stools with dry food. I think alot of
you guys use canned foods because your cat seems to love it and its
maybe more of a treat to give them the canned food which makes you feel
better being good to your cat which certainly is good for you and your
cat.

Pepsi, in looking at the first post that I have I can't determine how
feeding was done, I right or wrong determined that the morning feeding
was from an empty bowl but I may be wrong.

Brad


He said, "(although I leave kitten chow available to him 24/7)."
so I knew the cat, like mine used to, has unlimitted dry.

As for canned, I grew up with dogs and knew that dry was essential for
the animal's health. When I acquired my cat, I thought the same was
true for him. I was surprised when my vet told me cats do fine on an
all canned food diet, and that was confirmed just yesterday when I saw
a vet on tv say the same thing.

I agree with you that canned food does have an odorous effect on their
waste. But since canned food passes through their systems faster than
dry, for a cat that has trouble passing dry food, such as the original
poster's cat, that seems more of a solution than a problem.


High quality canned food will not make stinkier poo.


I have boarded my cat and was told he was only given Science Diet dry
the entire week he was there. He did just fine, so I've come to the
conclusion that as long as it's a food designed for cats, it won't
harm them, unless they have other problems. I do stay away from cheap
store brand foods, though, as they give my cat bloody diarhea.

pepsi


You would be wrong particularly on the part of boy cats that are susceptible
to becoming blocked by crystals. BUtyou can google and read all the flame
wars over this.


  #14  
Old April 6th 05, 10:51 AM
bjdbrad
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Well Phil the first thing you should learn here is that you can have an
opinion without telling the other people they are wrong. Why did you
feel the need to say that you are right and I am wrong. If you want to
make a contest about it I can write paragraphs that will tell you why
dry food is best. Be careful not to get caught up in the marketing of
the people who promote each type of food. Each one can make good sound
arguments for their types of foods. And as far as your comment about my
cats health taking taking precendent over my convenience...go screw
yourself.....you saw that I said I was convinced dry was better and was
honest about why I don't want to use canned. Matter of fact I said use
what you want I was polite and you were an ass. I shouldn't take the
word of a breeder I researched and I should take your word, someone out
here looking for a flame?

Your holier than though attitude sucks......rushing home to feed your
cat because you love your cat more than I do huh......tell you
what....don't respond to my posts and I won't respond to yours I
wouldn't want to accidentally knock you off your pedestal.

Brad

LIFE'S JOURNEY IS NOT TO ARRIVE AT THE GRAVE SAFELY IN A WELL-PRESERVED
BODY, BUT RATHER TO SKID IN SIDEWAYS, TOTALLY WORN OUT, SHOUTING... "
HOLY @#$%... WHAT A RIDE!"

  #15  
Old April 7th 05, 06:51 AM
Phil P.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"bjdbrad" wrote in message
ups.com...
Well Phil the first thing you should learn here is that you can have an
opinion without telling the other people they are wrong. Why did you
feel the need to say that you are right and I am wrong.


Maybe because I am and you were and I was trying to enlighten you for your
cats' benefit.



If you want to
make a contest about it I can write paragraphs that will tell you why
dry food is best.


I've already done extensive research backed up by controlled, clinical
studies that were published in peer-reviewed veterinary journals about the
benefits of canned food and serious disadvantages of dry food that trumps
*anything* you could possible come up with.

Before you type anymore foolish nonsense, read it first and save yourself a
lot of embarrassment:

http://www.maxshouse.com/feline_nutr...i ch_is_reall



Be careful not to get caught up in the marketing of
the people who promote each type of food. Each one can make good sound
arguments for their types of foods.



The only argument one could make about dry food is convenience and cost -
and maybe the fact it doesn't freeze (I'm forced to feed dry food to my
feral colonies in the winter)


And as far as your comment about my
cats health taking taking precendent over my convenience...go screw
yourself.....



Gee, if I knew the truth would hurt so much, I would have said it anyway.



you saw that I said I was convinced dry was better and was
honest about why I don't want to use canned.



Yeah, your reasons for why you don't *want* to feed canned food were really
moving.


Matter of fact I said use
what you want I was polite and you were an ass.



Gee, and here I thought I gave you a pretty good education about canned vs.
dry.


I shouldn't take the
word of a breeder I researched and I should take your word, someone out
here looking for a flame?



Absolutely not! You should never take the word of a breeder on face value.



Your holier than though attitude sucks.....



Ah ah ah - you're confusing aplomb with arrogance.



..rushing home to feed your
cat because you love your cat more than I do huh......


Isn't it true? Or do you mean to tell me that you love my cats more than I
do?


Buts that's not what I really said, now, is it? Do you always deliberately
misinterpret other peoples' statements or do you just have a reading
comprehension problem? Here's what I actually said:

"Don't you think we would love to just fill up a feeder once a week and
forget about it instead of worrying about rushing home to feed our cats on
time? The inconvenience and effort are offset by the satisfaction and
confidence that we are doing the best thing for our feline friends - who
enrich our lives so much. I think you might want to reevaluate your
priorities."

Nope! Nothing in there about who loves whose cats more.




tell you
what....don't respond to my posts



No can do. I feel obliged to the feline species to correct erroneous
information whenever and wherever I see it. Look at the up side - you just
might learn something...


  #16  
Old April 7th 05, 03:08 PM
ccpouncer ccpouncer is offline
Junior Member
 
First recorded activity by CatBanter: Jan 2005
Posts: 3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil P.
"bjdbrad" wrote in message
oups.com...
Well Phil perhaps its a mix of a few things.....one of them human
related I admit but I don't want to mess with the cans and smell and
mess of dealing with canned food.......



Actually, your cats' health should take precedence over your convenience.


but also I am convinced that the
dry food is best for them.



That's hardy the case. In fact, its the complete opposite. Here's why:

http://maxshouse.com/feline_nutritio...i ch_is_reall


Btw, take a look a your cats' teeth. Do you see any first premolars or
lower first or second premolars or broad and fisured crowns for grinding?
No, right? Their teeth are pointed - designed for tearing and cutting - not
mastication.

Also, gently try to move your cats' jaws laterally or in a rotary motion.
Can't do it, can you? Do you know why? Cats don't masticate! They can't
because their jaw hinge (condyloid process) is shaped like a bar - like a
door hinge - and only moves up and down (for holding struggling prey and
cutting) http://maxshouse.com/anatomy/Dentary...edial_view.jpg

So unless the dry food nuggets are very large - large enough for the teeth
to sink all the way down to the gum line - and don't shatter when the cat
bites into them, what good is dry food?


I have no quarrel with those that want to
use canned food I just prefer not to,


Its not as simple as that. Your cats' health should take precedence over
your convenience.


also my breeder says his cats
have much better and less odorous stools with dry food.



Most breeders are hardly credible sources of information - look how much
damage their "wisdom" has caused for many breeds - *especially* the
brachycephalic breeds and the Siamese! Most breeders know even less about
feline nutrition than they do about breeding!

The cost of those 'better' stools is less water in the urine and lower urine
volume - which increases the concentration of solutes in the urine which
increases the risk of urinary tract obstructions in male cats. Most of the
water dry-fed cats drink is lost to fecal moisture. So, even though they
drink about 6x more water than cats fed canned food, they have a *lower*
total water intake and turnover and *lower* urine volume. This isn't
opinion - this is fact backed up by peer-reviewed controlled clinical
studies.

Dry food also exacerbates interstitial cystitis and diabetes in cats that
are predisposed to it.


I think alot of
you guys use canned foods because your cat seems to love it and its
maybe more of a treat to give them the canned food which makes you feel
better being good to your cat which certainly is good for you and your
cat.


You couldn't be more wrong! Most of us feed our cats canned food because
its *healthier for our cats*. Canned food is more is expensive, takes more
effort, and is just a general pain in ass to deal with it - but its *better*
and *healthier* for our cats - which takes precedence over our convenience.
Don't you think we would love to just fill up a feeder once a week and
forget about it instead of worrying about rushing home to feed our cats on
time? The inconvenience and effort are offset by the satisfaction and
confidence that we are doing the best thing for our feline friends - who
enrich our lives so much. I think you might want to reevaluate your
priorities.

As the owner of a male cat, you should be particularily concerned about
feeding dry food. Male cats are very susceptible to urinary tract
obstructions because their urethra narrows - like a funnel - where it passes
over the pelvis - which can easily become blocked by small crystals and
debris and lead to oliguric acute renal failure and *death*. Females cats
aren't susceptible to UTOs because they have a wider and somewhat straight
urethra.

You seem like a caring owner whose just been misled and misinformed. I
really think you'll change your mind if you really think about it.

Phil

Phil,
Just picked up this thread today. Very informative. I also believe:
A. You get what you pay for.
B. Feed them what they like - they know what they need.

Thanks for the info.
CC
  #17  
Old April 7th 05, 07:48 PM
Shadow Walker
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Well Phil perhaps its a mix of a few things.....one of them human
related I admit but I don't want to mess with the cans and smell and
mess of dealing with canned food.......



Actually, your cats' health should take precedence over your convenience.


Mine does and I do not see my cats as being healthy when they cry in pain
because the canned food is too wet. Thus causing diarrhea.
Which in turn is backed up by gas I can here them pass from across the room.
You know that wet sound that we all make when our stomach lets us know we
ate something we should not have.

Don't forget the buildup on there teeth. Canned cat food leaves residue,
yeah and some would and should advise what to do about that. Wingtips and
other things. My cats won't touch raw meat. They like their dry and the
occasional canned.

but also I am convinced that the
dry food is best for them.



That's hardy the case. In fact, its the complete opposite. Here's why:


http://maxshouse.com/feline_nutritio...i ch_is_reall


Btw, take a look a your cats' teeth. Do you see any first premolars or
lower first or second premolars or broad and fisured crowns for grinding?
No, right? Their teeth are pointed - designed for tearing and cutting -

not
mastication.


"Max's House is produced in the interest of improving the health of cats
everywhere. While every attempt has been made to assure the accuracy and
completeness of the information contained herein, Max's House cannot
guarantee the accuracy of the original sources of information. Max's
House's cannot serve as a substitute for regular professional veterinary
care and is provided for reference only and not for treatment of any kind .
Max's House cannot be responsible for the diagnosis and treatment of
individual cats. We are confident that you will find Max's House's to be an
outstanding and informative addition to your cat's health care program."

Also, gently try to move your cats' jaws laterally or in a rotary motion.
Can't do it, can you? Do you know why? Cats don't masticate! They can't
because their jaw hinge (condyloid process) is shaped like a bar - like a
door hinge - and only moves up and down (for holding struggling prey and
cutting)

http://maxshouse.com/anatomy/Dentary...edial_view.jpg

So unless the dry food nuggets are very large - large enough for the teeth
to sink all the way down to the gum line - and don't shatter when the cat
bites into them, what good is dry food?


"Max's House is produced in the interest of improving the health of cats
everywhere. While every attempt has been made to assure the accuracy and
completeness of the information contained herein, Max's House cannot
guarantee the accuracy of the original sources of information. Max's
House's cannot serve as a substitute for regular professional veterinary
care and is provided for reference only and not for treatment of any kind .
Max's House cannot be responsible for the diagnosis and treatment of
individual cats. We are confident that you will find Max's House's to be an
outstanding and informative addition to your cat's health care program."

Nuff said.


I have no quarrel with those that want to
use canned food I just prefer not to,


Its not as simple as that. Your cats' health should take precedence over
your convenience.


What she or he said is that simple. Again pet care is not an exact science.
You can fight all day about what is better for the cat but I'll say this
much God didn't serve it in a can anymore than he served it in a bag.

also my breeder says his cats
have much better and less odorous stools with dry food.



Most breeders are hardly credible sources of information - look how much
damage their "wisdom" has caused for many breeds - *especially* the
brachycephalic breeds and the Siamese! Most breeders know even less about
feline nutrition than they do about breeding!

The cost of those 'better' stools is less water in the urine and lower

urine
volume - which increases the concentration of solutes in the urine

which
increases the risk of urinary tract obstructions in male cats. Most of

the
water dry-fed cats drink is lost to fecal moisture. So, even though they
drink about 6x more water than cats fed canned food, they have a *lower*
total water intake and turnover and *lower* urine volume. This isn't
opinion - this is fact backed up by peer-reviewed controlled clinical
studies.

Dry food also exacerbates interstitial cystitis and diabetes in cats that
are predisposed to it.


Yes and bones get lodged in cats throats. I don't see your point here.
Predisposed will carry any way and anywere.

I think alot of
you guys use canned foods because your cat seems to love it and its
maybe more of a treat to give them the canned food which makes you feel
better being good to your cat which certainly is good for you and your
cat.


You couldn't be more wrong! Most of us feed our cats canned food because
its *healthier for our cats*. Canned food is more is expensive, takes

more
effort, and is just a general pain in ass to deal with it - but its

*better*
and *healthier* for our cats - which takes precedence over our

convenience.
Don't you think we would love to just fill up a feeder once a week and
forget about it instead of worrying about rushing home to feed our cats on
time? The inconvenience and effort are offset by the satisfaction and
confidence that we are doing the best thing for our feline friends - who
enrich our lives so much. I think you might want to reevaluate your
priorities.


Ummmm....I feed canned as a treat and it's not more expensive if you buy it
right and not any more messy to me than dry. I have learned through
experience with the *vet* that canned is not as good as you claim. It's got
less of everything and more fat. It sticks to there teeth that requires
extra time at the vets to remove and that hurts a cats heart. It causes
stomach problems, gas, diarrhea and a number of other health concerns. Don't
forget that it is not a challenge for the cats stomach to digest. Cats use
to eat animals, hair, skin, insides (including grain) nails and all. Canned
is not stringy like meat so it doesn't offer their jaw exercise or the use
of their teeth that need to be used or they get loose in the jaw and fall
out.


As the owner of a male cat, you should be particularily concerned about
feeding dry food. Male cats are very susceptible to urinary tract
obstructions because their urethra narrows - like a funnel - where it

passes
over the pelvis - which can easily become blocked by small crystals and
debris and lead to oliguric acute renal failure and *death*. Females cats
aren't susceptible to UTOs because they have a wider and somewhat straight
urethra.

You seem like a caring owner whose just been misled and misinformed. I
really think you'll change your mind if you really think about it.

Phil


Female cats aren't susceptible to UTI's or UTO's that's not true, not true
at all. The words you are looking for is less likely. All cats can get a UTI
and or UTO. I think you are just as misinformed. I'm not stating I know
everything nor all the answers. But I have to work very closely with my vet
for all three of my cats. I have one male who is a UTI time bomb. I have 2
females 1 has a heart murmur and the other nurological problems. So I would
say, me and the vets have had some long talks.

Putting soapbox away.

Shadow Walker


  #18  
Old April 7th 05, 07:56 PM
Shadow Walker
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Phil P." wrote in message
...

"bjdbrad" wrote in message
ups.com...
Well Phil the first thing you should learn here is that you can have an
opinion without telling the other people they are wrong. Why did you
feel the need to say that you are right and I am wrong.


Maybe because I am and you were and I was trying to enlighten you for your
cats' benefit.



If you want to
make a contest about it I can write paragraphs that will tell you why
dry food is best.


I've already done extensive research backed up by controlled, clinical
studies that were published in peer-reviewed veterinary journals about the
benefits of canned food and serious disadvantages of dry food that trumps
*anything* you could possible come up with.

Before you type anymore foolish nonsense, read it first and save yourself

a
lot of embarrassment:


http://www.maxshouse.com/feline_nutr...i ch_is_reall

"Max's House is produced in the interest of improving the health of cats
everywhere. While every attempt has been made to assure the accuracy and
completeness of the information contained herein, Max's House cannot
guarantee the accuracy of the original sources of information. Max's
House's cannot serve as a substitute for regular professional veterinary
care and is provided for reference only and not for treatment of any kind .
Max's House cannot be responsible for the diagnosis and treatment of
individual cats. We are confident that you will find Max's House's to be an
outstanding and informative addition to your cat's health care program."

Before you tell other people to read stuff you should read it for evidence
to prevent it from being used against you. Note it says to be used for
information to help in your cats health program. It doesn't say stop here
it's the bomb, the answer, the whole kit and caboodle. It looks like you
stopped there and are not really researching further into your cats own
health.

Shadow Walker


  #19  
Old April 7th 05, 08:19 PM
Shadow Walker
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Actually, your cats' health should take precedence over your
convenience.

Mine does and I do not see my cats as being healthy when they cry in

pain
because the canned food is too wet. Thus causing diarrhea.


You could do what I do, since Hodge has the same problem (constipation
from dry, diarrhea from wet) -- feed wet one meal and dry one meal a
day. He looks great, he got a clean bill of health a couple weeks ago,
and he seems to be doing well on this diet.


Thanks for the info. I give canned as a treat every so often it is also used
just to make sure everything is going through. =) I have discussed the
canned food vs. dry with my vet, (I use a good sized clinic that has three
vets on staff) and as a whole canned is not for mine. We use it for sick
cats, hair ball problems but overall it's just really doesn't fit into my
cats dietary needs. I also give my cats supplements due to my one cats heart
murmur, she gets extra taurine.

Thank you.

Shadow Walker


  #20  
Old April 7th 05, 08:27 PM
Shadow Walker
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Just to add onto my other message I have no problems with canned being used
in moderation with dry, my problem is when some believe it is the only way
and they do not look at the other factors involved. Thank you very much for
your information. It is useful.

Shadow Walker


"Diane L. Schirf" wrote in message
k.net...
In article ,
"Shadow Walker" wrote:

Actually, your cats' health should take precedence over your

convenience.

Mine does and I do not see my cats as being healthy when they cry in

pain
because the canned food is too wet. Thus causing diarrhea.


You could do what I do, since Hodge has the same problem (constipation
from dry, diarrhea from wet) -- feed wet one meal and dry one meal a
day. He looks great, he got a clean bill of health a couple weeks ago,
and he seems to be doing well on this diet.

--
http://www.slywy.com/



 




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